 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anybody have any experience of the Snoworks intermediate courses? We're looking to do a weeks instruction next year, but the budget doesn't really stretch to Warren Smith. Any other recommendations from people?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ajpaul, We went on a Snoworks All Terrain course in Tignes, and had a fab time, with high quality instruction from friendly instructors. Another one to consider is Inspired To Ski, who are based in Val d'Isere, but like Snoworks do instruct in other resorts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ajpaul, you'll find a lot of fans of Snoworks here. MrsFlyingStantoni went before Christmas and really enjoyed it. Their early season deals are very good.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've skied a lot with Snoworks. Always been a good experience.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ajpaul, I've been with snoworks and have no hesitation in recommending them - learnt a lot and had a lot of fun each time!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Me too - though it was a long time ago. I don't think you can go wrong with a week with any of the good schools. But how about a "Fast 'n Easy" course in June - when you thought skiing was over for the year.
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ajpaul, yes, I've been on a Snoworks and an Inspired to Ski course and would highly recommend either. For me the choice would probably be down to dates and location. Both have excellent instructors. If you want any more info on Snoworks, Stewart Woodward here is an instructor for them and Phil Smith also posts sometimes.
Snoworks have more of a philosophy of skiing - you learn Phil Smith's method no matter who your instructor is and there'll probably be a few talks on this of an evening. There was no Inspired to Ski philosophy, you got taught the method of whichever instructor you have for the week. Our instructor seemed to like fruit analogies a lot - segments of oranges under your foot, grapes in the front of your boot - and I won't tell you where the corks went!
I'll probably be going back with Inspired to Ski next season, mainly because I think a week of 5 half days instruction based in Courchevel 1850 for under £900 including flight, transfer & half-board is pretty good value
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the feedback folks. I think you're right, between Snoworks and Inspired to Ski, it will probably boil down to dates/location. I'm thinking Courchevel is a tad pricy as a resort?
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ajpaul, if you are on a half board deal the priciness of the resort isn't much of an issue, so it's the cost of the basic package which is the key issue. The Fast 'n Easy courses are £590 (based on two sharing) for half board in a good hotel, tuition and ski pass (not travel).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ajpaul, if you have a look at Inspired to Ski, the weeks in Tignes are very good value.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ajpaul, the way I looked at it is that doing an ItS course at Courchevel is probably the only way I'll get to ski Courchevel! Staying in the Mark Warner chalet through ItS is way cheaper than just booking direct with Mark Warner. So for example, 10 Jan 2010 for a week is £645 for half-board & flight. And then £250 on top for the instruction. http://www.inspiredtoski.com/datesandprices . As pam w says, the priciness of the resort doesn't matter so much when you're on half-board and breakfast & dinner is already paid for.
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You know it makes sense.
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All. Have booked onto a Snoworks All Terrain at Hemel this month with a view to trying them out before booking a week at Tignes. Admin has been less than pleasing and am considering reverting to a Warren course. Reading this suggests I should persevere. Guess you would all agree?
Peter
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PeterGee, You pay your money and you take your choice Peter. Any ski instruction cant sprinkle fairy dust on your skis although they can help. REMEMBER this, you are normally in a group of 8 and they will be going through a set course of instruction (snow and weather permitting) for the whole class and NOT INDIVIDUAL YOU! I feel that's very important to shout that out aloud! Be fair to yourself.. if, you feel you'll want a bit more 'off-piste' help than 'piste-performance' then you MUST go on an ''Improver off-piste' course and not a general course. Similarly, if you feel you want more from piste skiing, then you MUST go on an 'Piste-Performance' course and not a general course 'all mountain course'. Sadly, i've be so keen to go that i've taken really the wrong course and on top of that had silly falls causing injurys curtailing the courses -wasn't a happy camper.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I had some coaching from Snoworks last season. Well worth it, and I really like their approach to all-terrain skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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All terrain at a snowdome 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PeterGee, Further, would i want a whole days course.. probably not. Maybe it's OK with a great group but for me i'd prefer my own playing on my mountain time. where i can do my own thing in my own sweet time. So that's a major consideration for me. Others i've known have had a good time with either of the usual suspects. My only comment i would make is this.. On Warrens course each of the coaches under him VERY MUCH sticks to the formula written in stone by Warren. Warren is the boss. With Phil Smiths Snoworks, Phil can't physically teach everybody so he uses (or so it's been my experience) highly experienced BASI trainers who sometimes use alternative phrases not identical to the 'Snoworks DVD collection' - you have to listen carefully - having said that, i find the Snoworks instructors are individually very talented experienced instructors with high level communication skills - that's what you really need right? This wasn't the same with all Warrens crew - i very much felt i was following a prescriptive set formula devised by Warren. In truth, i lost respect for the young instructor. In truth, i'm never that happy in groups of 8.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Arno, In truth, any 'all terrain' course will always be a compromise and adaptable to any teaching situation, it's ideal - who can complain, there it is, variable conditions at hemel. Anybody who skis there knows it changes all day long. A bit of this, that and the other. It can be icy at the top down the middle 1/3 rd down, or long moguls at the top and sugary lumpy snow down the sides. Twisting, Pushing, Edging, One edge change, two edge change, Fast / slow and everything inbetween. Drills, drills and more drills - maybe but not necessarily dull given a good pma but must be done for improvement. No way around that sadly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno, that was my thought!
mongrel dog, so you're not happy, then? Didn't do any research, booked the wrong course, couldn't cope and now it's someone else's fault. Caveat emptor.
PeterGee, IME Phil Smith's admin has always been a bit like that but his instruction is excellent so stick with it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Raceplate, Hi Raceplate - i didn't say it's was anybody else's fault. Yes, if you have read inbetween the lines that i wasn't a happy and that i was disappointed with myself for taking the wrong course that would be kind of true. The thrust of my post is to emphasize the importance of doing the right course if you're knowledgeable enough to really know what you want and not rush in just to book something. I fully recognize it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time etc. in any situation - especially a general ski 'all terrain' course because there will always be individuals wanting more of this than that etc, given you have the snow condition to teach this or that isn't always an ideal given and compromises have to be met in structure content.
Now 'All terrain' can be taught at Hemel. the Ice can be there, as the Bumps can be, if early enough, smooth / flat too, and rough /lumpy down the sides. Granted there's no thin crusty breakable top layer or deep snow / powder snow, but there's more than enough for a useful days training. If you would like to post your thoughts as to why there isn't enough for a days training then please do. Pete, Ali, Alex, Lee, Warren and our resident Inside/Out crew could be interested.
Cheers.
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mongrel dog, Agree - plenty of funky conditions in an average day at Hemel to expose one dimensional technique. Not that they can do a lot about steeps etc but you can even enjoy pow skis 
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mongrel dog,
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If you would like to post your thoughts as to why there isn't enough for a days training then please do
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Eh? Where have I said that? At no point have I said there's not sufficient snow for a day's training at Hemel to be useful. I'm a Snoworks advocate which is pretty clear from my comment to PeterGee. Especially when delivered by BASI L4's/Trainers which is the level Phil normally employs.
But is it 'all-terrain'? Well only if you want to make some pedantic distinction between terrain and gradient. It's a 150m of Blue gradient slope. Putting a small ice patch, some fluff at the sides and some 6 inch high bumps is hardly representative of everything you'll encounter on a real mountain.
It's relevant because IMO most Intermediate's confidence issues are far more proportional to the gradient than the snow type. They can be reasonably competent on difficult snow on a shallow gradient but put them on easier snow on a steeper gradient and their technique falls apart through fear of falling issues. Only practice of skiing those steeper slopes eradicates that fear. So you can learn as much theory as you like about how to deal with big, steep, ice bumps at Hemel but you can only practice on soft, shallow, fluffy ones. That's not teaching 'all-terrain' in my book.
Oh, and in the interests of pedantry, from Wikipedia: "Terrain, or land relief, is the vertical and horizontal dimension of land surface."
fatbob, if you're taking fat skis to a snowdome you need to get out more. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Raceplate, Hi, perhaps we got off to a bad start.
It's Snoworks themselves running 'All Terrain' (their words) courses on the 28 Sept and 20 Oct. at Hemel. I understand what your saying about the factor of height / slope gradient factoring into the ski experience and hindering learning. However you have to have a set of tools to overcome the slope gradient before you encounter the gradient i would think. For sure it helps to learn from drills a certain procedure- then straightaway go practice it on the real gradient to get a muscle memory or you'll just forget it. However, these indoor hills are good at progressively teaching skills without the massive gradient fear or the fear of a massive slope carrying you away over the edge and getting in the way of technique learning. Choppy snow, even smallish mogul bumps and Ice and patchy ice / hardpack are all issues for intermediates to excel at. Yes, the lack of steep slope could be viewed as negative but not a massive negative. If you have taught ski pupils professionally then you have one up on me. I know slope gradient can freak out skiers and soon too much speed is picked up and they crash even though they have the skills to turn up the hill and stop it's forgotten in the panic moment and it hurts if they hit you at speed whilst supposedly just following you at a safe distance. Clearly progressive gradients / challenges are the answer and accomplishment of specific skills at specific pitches is necessary for quality outcomes. Nonetheless, 'All Terrain' coaching at Hemel is valuable and justifiable to be called 'All Terrain' as much as a real mountain experience because snow / conditions at the Snowcentre could be argued as very predictable unlike a real mountain even at high altitude. Overcoming fear of a steep slope isn't an easy thing. Lets be truthful, alot of skiers never accomplish it fully and nearly all will have an OMG (or much worse!) moment. Thankfully this keeps the steep icy blacks relatively clear of skiers that shouldn't be there for their own sakes.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 11-09-13 21:23; edited 4 times in total
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You can improvise a steeper slope at Hemel, which is good for testing skills which are employed on steep pistes but without the intimidation factor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, Hi Rob. Gee- 29060 posts... respect.ps. you do know me but not as 'mongrel dog'. Glad you and Scott are doing well with Inside/Out.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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mongrel dog, I guessed we might know each other, although don't read too much in to my post count. It's mostly all nonsense with, hopefully, one or two useful contributions.
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Thanks for all the help, have confirmed and will attend.
Not expecting a huge amount from the day as it is indoors, just want to use it to decide if I want to book a week with them at Tignes.
Much appreciation 
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, Dear Rob, 'Only one or two useful contributions' after 29064 posts! 'Don't read too much into my post count' of 29064 posts! err, OK i won't if you say so, but it's an awful lot of reading and typing anyway 
We met on Phil Browns Impulse race evenings about 3 years ago now and a couple of times since. My, has time flown by!
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 11-09-13 22:43; edited 2 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PeterGee, I'm just a believer in skier development. After all i have written i hope you have a good experience with Snoworks at Hemel.
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FAQ
