 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I am heading out to Les Arc 1800 next week, and the weather looks a bit wet!!
I have a Gore tex soft shell jacket, and want to reproof it. The local outdoors shop has sold me Nikwax TX.Direct wash in. Is this appropriate? Is this going to mess up the soft inner wicking layer.
Any advice welcome.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Haglöfs recommended to me, when I asked, to use spray on the outside. The washing will mess up the soft lining. There is a whole chain of discussion here which you might find on a search tool.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ringingmaster, I had a bad experience using Nikwax TX.Direct Spray-On (not a wash-in one, though). It did not work on my Regatta coat at all...
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 1-04-09 3:58; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I thought that you weren't supposed to waterproof Goretex, or is that just hard shells?
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richmond, you just want to do it with the right products.
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You need to wash goretex and other similar fabrics (with pores) as the pores get clogged with dirt which causes water ingress by osmosis: ie they will leak if you don't. Wash mine once a year but probably a bit too often TBH unless reallly dirty. CEM pointed out that the wash in stuff bonds to the outer better than the spray on and keeps the DWR fresh for longer
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My experience also: wash-in works better than spray-on (if you have the choice).
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But this is not about a a hardshell, but a softshell jacket with a soft fleece lining. If you use wash in, you will automatically waterproof the lining too. This cannot be good.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have gone for the NIKWAX soft shell spray on. I will Keep my fingers crossed!!! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ringingmaster, well, fortunately you can test it right in your bathroom.
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| demos wrote: |
| But this is not about a a hardshell, but a softshell jacket with a soft fleece lining. If you use wash in, you will automatically waterproof the lining too. This cannot be good. |
My Arcteryx Goretex softshell has no lining.
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You know it makes sense.
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You mean it has absolutely no soft fleece like material inside it? Ok, I didn't know that. However, ringingmaster said that his does - or so I understood.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| demos wrote: |
| You mean it has absolutely no soft fleece like material inside it? Ok, I didn't know that. However, ringingmaster said that his does - or so I understood. |
yup, it's softshell shell 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ahaaa. The reason why I am surprised is that Haglofs, all of the softshells I have seen from them incl. the one I have, have a thin fleecelike lining though they are really shells.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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my rab has some fleecey bits, but as I mention above you get specific softshell wash in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, mine does have a thin fleecy wicking layer on the inside. I have been in touch with NIKWAX, and they said that the NIKWAX soft shell wash in should NOT be used for soft shell with a wicking layer as it will stop it wicking.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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just checked mine, it does indeed have a slightly furry feel inside, it's not what I would call a fleecy layer, but it's not the crisp packet texture from the proshell stuff I looked at!!
What did NIXWAX suggest ringingmaster, ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| richmond wrote: |
| I thought that you weren't supposed to waterproof Goretex, or is that just hard shells? |
I'm with richmond on this. Isn't the idea of Goretex being that the pores in the fabric are big enough to allow wicking but too small to let in water?
Hopefully the outdoor fabric guru that is JT will be along soon to give a definite answer
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon, The waterproofing on Goretex is actually just for the face fabric to encourage water to bead and run off. With aging the fabric becomes a bit dirty and fluffy and once it wets out it tends to block the transmission of vapor though the membrane beneath it. A wash, ironing and reproofing soon sorts this out.
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| kitenski wrote: |
just checked mine, it does indeed have a slightly furry feel inside, it's not what I would call a fleecy layer, but it's not the crisp packet texture from the proshell stuff I looked at!!
What did NIXWAX suggest ringingmaster, ? |
The 'fleecy' layer on my could probably be described as thin and fury - it is nothing like a conventional fleece. NIKWAX suggested the 'Soft Shell spray on'. You wash the jacket, then spray it on, and gentally massage in any beading solution. I did it tonight and it is now drying. I will let you know after next week if it is still breathing. I got some on my hand, and it now appears to be waterproof. 
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I have used NIKWAX PRODUCTS on my Mountain Equipment soft shell Jacket and Guide pants and can vouch for their proofing qualities - everything will be fine 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| spyderjon, ......With aging the fabric becomes a bit dirty and fluffy...... |
I see. I never keep my gear that long
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spyderjon, I had the old Berghaus for 18 years before relegating it to 'fishing jacket'
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, I'd have thought that you'd just wax yours 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well following a warm, and at times wet week in Les Arcs, I can confirm that my GoreTex Soft Shell is still both waterproof and breathable.
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Scarpa, still got my Alpine Extreme...lovely colours.. don't use it tho...
That was the time when Berghaus made good stuff... IMV
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You know it makes sense.
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JT, I use mine for sea fishing 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| I thought that you weren't supposed to waterproof Goretex, or is that just hard shells? |
I'm with richmond on this. Isn't the idea of Goretex being that the pores in the fabric are big enough to allow wicking but too small to let in water?
Hopefully the outdoor fabric guru that is JT will be along soon to give a definite answer |
You are supposed to re-proof Goretex occasionally. After several washes, the outer layer tends to lose some of its beading properties. I use Nikwax products and just follow their recommended washing/proofing instructions:-
Hardshell - Wash with Tech-Wash, proof with TX.direct wash-in
Softshell - Wash with Tech-Wash, proof with Softshell proof wash-in
For insulated jackets it's better to use the spray-on version of proofer so it doesn't affect the lining etc.
You don't have to proof them on every wash, only when you can see areas that are not beading up very well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Goretex do at least 2 types of softshell: high and low loft. Arcy T use the low loft stuff on say the Stingray and Haglofs use high loft (thicker and fluffier) on the Couloir.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| With aging the fabric becomes a bit dirty and fluffy and once it wets out it tends to block the transmission of vapor though the membrane beneath it. |
Also an interesting thing is that if you ever find yourself in water with jeans on you can tie knots in the legs and actually inflate them as a make shift flotation aid. The wet fabric will hold air.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I use Nikwax or Grainger's washes and wash thru proofing and have done so with success for over 20 years on various things with varied success (SOS "tea bag" fabrics didn't work too well (SOS, Made for Skiers by Skiers who don't ski unless it's sunny)).
I have just (Nikwax) TX-Washed and TX-Softshell proofed my 5 year old Arc'teryx Gamma AR softshell jacket and not only does it look much better, the DWR seems to have been restored.
AFAIK, there are two (at least) components to a Gore-Tex (or other membraned) garment. The Durable Water Repellant (DWR) of the fabric itself and the water transmission of the membrane (designed so that, at least in principle, internal humidity from sweat makes it's way outside and rain, snowmelt, etc. stay outside). The membrane's the really important element.
AFAIK, use a tech wash as ordinary soap powder kills the DWR and blogs the membrane's pores. Tech wash can partially restore the DWR and unclogs the membrane. The wash through proofer simply restores the DWR so that you don't look as bedraggled, so is partially "optional".
See http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/care-center/washing-instructions
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