 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stewart woodward, most of the bad injuries I hear about are from race training.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stewart woodward, yup a broken back is a booger to get over . . . about 18 months in my case . . .+class 3 AC shoulder . . . missing lung . . . Achillies reconstruction . . . and just a few other fookoops that make getting out of bed just fer a piѕѕ . . . a consideration on the merits of adult diapers 
However . . . unless we accept the challenges that life throws at us, we may as well lay back and listen to the screws being turned home in the lid.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque, go for it. I really enjoy doing a bit of race training, but it shouldn't be undertaken lightly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, anything that ultimately has the care of fellows as a the goal should NEVER be "undertaken lightly" . . . I must admit to an interest in the difference between 'technique' and 'brute strength' in achieving a Eurotest or TT pass.
What I really object to is the concept that we cannot change our life goals because we made the decision past some arbitrary point in our span of years.
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| Masque wrote: |
| What I really object to is the concept that we cannot change our life goals because we made the decision past some arbitrary point in our span of years. |
I agree, but it should be tempered with a sense of realism rather than driven by naive ambition.
Care of fellows...?
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rob@rar, "Care of fellows" Sorry, I've been re-reading Chaucer in middle English and it's drifting into my vocab. Simply being, if we want to tell someone what to do we have to accept that we then acquire some responsibility towards them.
As for realism . . . 'Shirley' that's down to hard work, practice and determination? Age just may extend the time-frame.
I have no "naive ambition" . . . but I also have no respect for willful inhibition . . . you want to go from a UK desk job to driving an 18 wheeler on the US Interstates? 
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Masque,
I like your attitude 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Masque wrote: |
| rob@rar, "Care of fellows" Sorry, I've been re-reading Chaucer in middle English and it's drifting into my vocab. Simply being, if we want to tell someone what to do we have to accept that we then acquire some responsibility towards them. |
Ah, so you think that the Eurotest is a safety measure. Bless.
| Masque wrote: |
| As for realism . . . 'Shirley' that's down to hard work, practice and determination? Age just may extend the time-frame. |
I'm not sure what your goals are, but if it is a Eurotest pass I'm afraid I would consider that in the naive ambition category. I've seen the efforts that people put in to pass the speed test and I think you underestimate the level of challenge.
| Masque wrote: |
| I have no "naive ambition" . . . but I also have no respect for willful inhibition . . . you want to go from a UK desk job to driving an 18 wheeler on the US Interstates? |
I'm guessing that's a significantly easier hurdle that going from a desk job to a Eurotest pass, but as I have no idea about the demands of moving continent to become a teamster I won't insult your efforts by making a definitive statement that all you need is determination.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Masque, what are your plans for training, i'm tempted to try an introduction course to see whether its just a pipe dream.
Yes i'm old at 43, no I havent raced other than the odd SL on a dry slope but I am competetive, i am fit and I have the drive to train hard having ran a marathon, I like skiing fast and I am overweight which must make me go downhill fast whether on skis or as a snowball 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque, seriously, do your l1 then perhaps your l2, if you pass both you'll know an awful lot more about yourself and your skiing, and hopefully may have skied with a trainer who's passed eurotest or a colleague who's passed test technique.
I'm not ashamed to think I was a good skier, I then took my L1 and downgraded myself to an ok skier, failed my L2 and downgraded myself another peg.....
Curtains, join the lions or I think another club does gates at leeds. I did some time but has to stop due to wife giving up work. The young racers will certainly put you in your place.....
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Curtains, yer a whippersnapper compared to me and the Eurotest doesn't frighten me . . . that doesn't mean I don't respect the high level of skill and strength needed to pass it.
I've yet to make a final decision and currently leaning towards the Snoworks pre season L1/2 course . . . but still researching and talking to people who have run the gauntlet . . . language skills are the real arbiter.
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski, I know just how low my skills register  however I can and will slide on anything and that grants me an understanding to the principals of how sliding on snow works . . . that doesn't always equate to the "follow me" form of ski teaching.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I think I owe you a beer . . . when I catch you. You've no idea of just how fast that teleboard is . . . seriously, it's quick . . . and you can try it at the eosb
The Eurotest, I don't think I've slapped down anyone. I've always said that it is very difficult . . . I've also said that it has nothing to do with teaching people how to ski.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, you could get your Isia license without taking the eurotest, you 'simply' need to pass your l3.
But seriously, get your l1 under your belt......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque,
The snoworks Gap course includes some Test Technique or Eurotest training after L1 & before L2. Most Gappies really enjoy this part of the course for both the adrenalin rush and for the improvement in their carving skills.
More details here http://www.snoworks.co.uk/gap.asp
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Masque, Please remember that L1 and L2 are not a given if you do a course.
For all the love of Snoworks on here be aware that nearly half of their pre-season L1+L2 gap type course FAILED their L2 this year.
Maybe this was indicative of a poor cohort of participants, maybe a very tough BASI examiner, maybe a shift upwards of standards by BASI (they are known to have raised the level required for L3 already).
If kitenski failed his L2 then that is something worth knowing and factoring in to considerstions....I've had the pleasure of skiing with him, he is a good skier!
Masque, I don't know why you are even bothering to talk about doing your Eurotest at this stage....there is so far to go before that. Unless you are 100% mono-focussed and travel the hemispheres in search of winter, and unless you have some luck in getting jobs, you will not have completed your L3 within 4 of 5 years.
L3 is TOUGH....and Eurotest is much, much tougher!
I wish you every good fortune in this project though...go for your dreams (but get a move on!)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rungsp wrote: |
| For all the love of Snoworks on here be aware that nearly half of their pre-season L1+L2 gap type course FAILED their L2 this year. |
Snoworks had 16 Gap students last autumn. 2 of the students had already passed L1.
Of the 14 students who took L1, in Zermatt & the UK, 12 passed & 2 had technical resits. The 2 students who required technical resits passed 1 week later. 100% pass rate.
Of the 16 students who took L2, in Courchevel, 13 passed & the other students had technical resits. 1 of these students has subsequently passed L2. 87.5% pass rate.
One of the students had only skied 4 weeks before the course and it was expalined to him/her that they would probably struggle to pass L2 as their skiing experience was not sufficent. The student still signed up and progressed very well.
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stewart woodward, thanks for clarifying...you evidently have the full facts, I was told differently by an ex Snoworks student.
I am happy to stand corrected.
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| Quote: |
they are known to have raised the level required for L3 already
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really? Im not sure about that, everyone I have talked to (both examiners and candidates) doesnt think so except for those who failed in Hintertux last year when the conditions were poor and the rumour mill had to have a culprit to blame for such a high failure rate. Its just a tough course
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Some interesting facts regarding Age Handicapping of Ski Instructor race requirements.
The USA ski instructor association PSIA Rocky Mountain division now has a race component to its Level 2 and 3 awards. http://www.psia-rm.org/education/alpine/certification-pathway
At Level 3 you must be a Nastar "Gold" standard and at L2 Nastar "Silver", there is a higher Platinum award so these race times are not particularly demanding.
The Nastar races are run nationally and are handicapped by Gender AND Age. http://www.nastar.com/articles/what-is-the-nastar-handicap-chart
18-29's get no allowance
30-34 get an extra 1% against the pace setter time
35-39 2%
40-44 4%
45-49 5%
50-54 6%
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As a relative newbie to both skiing & Snowheads, with an interest in becoming an instructor, I've read this thread with interest.
One thought, which is perhaps slightly off topic, is why BASI don't introduce a lower level GS test (ET lite) that people can do as soon as they have passed their L2? This could be at a level so as to rebut any rejection by the French to ET lite being "Substantially Different" to the TT and hence anyone with L2 + ET lite can start to teach in France as a stagiaire. ESF et al would have to accept candidates with these 2 elements or be in contravention of EU law. At the same time the candidate has started to gain skills that are relevant to their progression to the ET should they seek to take their professional development further (rather than having to dive into the realms of Slalom - a discipline that has a different skill set to GS).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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abd,
No way the French will allow Stagieres that have not passed the TT 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abd, because BASI threw their hat in with the French long ago to the detrimental of many ordinary lower level members?
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| Quote: |
No way the French will allow Stagieres that have not passed the TT
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ski - if the test was pitched at the right level, I struggle to see how the French could reject it under EU law. There comes a point where the French might not like the changes, but they are very much in favour of the European project when it suits them.
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You know it makes sense.
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abd, it already exists, you have to do a slalom run before you can become a staggiere, called the test technique I believe. One guy on my l2 passed in Dec, did test technique in Jan and got a job in Val d'isere for the rest of the season.
From the BASI webpage
At present the French authorities only recognise Alpine qualifications, other disciplines being treated as offshoots. To work in France a UK instructor must comply with one of the following:
Be part of the ESF system with a ski school holding the Centre de Formation status (training status), as a 'stagiaire' (trainee). This involves passing the Test Technique, a timed Slalom, organised by the DDJS (local département authority), at which the candidate must achieve a specified time. After obtaining the Test Technique and a First aid Certificate, the candidate enters the Préformation, a 2-week residential course, again run by the DDJS. After this, the candidate becomes a 'stagiaire' and can work for an approved ski school.
Or, hold the BASI Alpine Level 2 Instructor Qualification or the BASI Alpine Level 3 ISIA Qualification & Test Technique, work as a 'stagiaire' with an approved ski school. Having entered the stagiaire system, the BASI Level 3 ISIA has a 3-year period to complete the BASI Level 4 ISTD Qualification (including the European Speed Test).
Or, hold the BASI Alpine Level 3 ISIA Qualification and have passed the Test Technique
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, I'm aware of that. What I was suggesting was that BASI introduce their own GS test of a lower standard than the ET (equivalent to the TT in terms of standard although in GS rather than SL).
Would make more sense with regards to homogeneity of technical progression, qualifications and career progression (for those wanting to work in France at least). I appreciate that the politics might be interesting given it would be BASI waiving a bit of a "red rag" to the French despite it being legal under EU legislation.
The next challenge would be getting ESF etc to accept Stagiares on this basis - would require some legal challenges I suspect. However as mentioned previously on this thread the French are allowing some Nordic Stagiares in without the TT.
The issue of training status only being granted to French ski schools (ESF) is another anti-competitive issue. As is the same charge out rate in ESF for each instructor irrespective of grade / qualification.
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Poster: A snowHead
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kitenski, I am with abd on this one.. A pan European ET lite on the same GS course as the full ET would be a good way to ensure technical ability for those wishing to work with foreign qualifications. IMV if BASI continues to be 100% wed to the Eurotest as part of the EU wide EuroSki Pro card they need to address the issue of working rights for L2 and L3 for those working towards L4 if they truly believe in a multi tier instructor system. I think it would be a good idea for EU nationals who wants to work in a foreign ski school with a foreign qualification to use an ET light to ensure technical competence for those with their own nations lower level badges and keep the current ET for those wanting full equivalence and right of establishment. The French Slalom test is too technical and needs a lot of training if you havent raced SL poles and the French only believe in a single level of instructor all others are just trainees...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Effectively this already exists through the ISIA pyramid system. Once at ISIA level ( stamp and card) there are already internationally agreed standards that allow a host nation to understand the education level of a foreign instructor. What needs to happen is ski schools ( and nations) need to start using what is already in place. The Swiss have a good process for recognising instructors through this route. This unfortunate will never be the case in France as they don’t see that the ISIA has any value other that an international club. France has a system that is very clear and the path way is also very clear.
Interestingly the French representative on the ISIA ( he went for president but didn’t get voted on and is now an advisor) doesn’t turn up to any of the meetings!
The nations who are support of the ISIA pyramid need to start but recognising each other. Those that don’t already have agreements in place ( Eurotest). Choose you nation accordingly I guess…
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gilleski, do you know what the basi levels equate to under the swiss system in terms of what they give you credit for so you are exempted to a certain level within their system?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, Thanks for that - would appear to be almost comically childish from the write up of the minutes, if real careers didn't hang on political decisions made. As a BASI member do BASI not disclose their official communications to the hoi polloi?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, They started to put up minutes of international meetings in the members area of the website but that seems to have died on the vine... "internal" docs like letters to the ISIA arent.
Other interesting news: 4 nations have proposed a motion to be voted on at the ISIA AGM in September that would add an Age Handicap to the ISIA technical test which is the international version of the Eurotest. IF this goes through and IF it is successfully trialled for a year it may set an interesting precedent.
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Any idea what BASI had to say?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nope...
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skimottaret,
Is that 'nope' I don't know what BASI said or 'nope' BASI are not interested
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FAQ
