 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In fairness, this has been the case for some time, as has reduced compo for people not wearing seatbelts/motor cycle helmets etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It could but I've long held the opinion that, if you cycle on the road, it should be compulsory to where a helmet.
Cyclists can achieve the same speeds as moped riders (downhill, admittedly) and they have to where far more robust headgear than a cycling helmet.
I don't ride a bike without a helmet, that's my choice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Philbo wrote: |
It could but I've long held the opinion that, if you cycle on the road, it should be compulsory to where a helmet.
Cyclists can achieve the same speeds as moped riders (downhill, admittedly) and they have to where far more robust headgear than a cycling helmet.
I don't ride a bike without a helmet, that's my choice. |
If you're going to say thatm then you should also say that the helmet should be as robust as a motorcycle helmet - cycle helmets are not designed for high speed crashes, as per the links given above. This is an issue which has provoked even more debate than skiing helmets, so let's leave cycle helmets for cycle forums, eh?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Philbo wrote: |
It could but I've long held the opinion that, if you cycle on the road, it should be compulsory to where a helmet.
...
I don't ride a bike without a helmet, that's my choice. |
So choice is fine if you make the "right" one. A bit like Mugabe's "one man, one vote" - his. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
cycle helmets are not designed for high speed crashes
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and nor are recreational snowsport helmets. I presume the ones worn by the downhillers are more akin to a proper m/c helmet?
Haveing been a cycle helmet wearer commuting to work who then changed his mind on the evidence of studies of motorist behaviour, I will think about my position again. I do wear a helmet on the slopes (and off road cycling / on the road bike) and recon it has saved me from concussion at least once on the slopes and once MTBing.
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I don't see why it would impact skiing, unless of course, you are skiing and cycling at the same time. In which case, a helmet is unlikely to be adequate protection 
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Not another helmet thread, here come the risk averse busybodies, quick put a helmet on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nbt, Cycle helmets are certainly designed for crashes at greater speed than 12mph. In the Times article the judge said that's how fast the guy's head hit the floor and the helmet would not have affected that. dangly bits. I can quite easily hit 40mph on my mountain bike. If you're on a road you should have to wear a helmet like other road users.
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MJS,
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If you're on a road you should have to wear a helmet like other road users.
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I've never worn a helmet either in my car or when walking.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| In fairness, this has been the case for some time, as has reduced compo for people not wearing seatbelts/motor cycle helmets etc. |
Yes but that is the law. There is no law regarding cyclists wearing helmets.
Cyclists are killed and injured because of bad driving, the compensation should be paid regardless of what they had on there head. Shops sell motorcross back supports / DH mountain bike shin guards etc - should compensation be reduced if a motorist is proved to be the cause of an accident that cripples a cyclist and the said cyclist wasn't wearing a back protector?
Cyclists are vulnerable road users they should be protected by the law that comes down hard motorists.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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so let's leave cycle helmets for cycle forums, eh?
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AGREED
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| T Bar wrote: |
MJS,
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If you're on a road you should have to wear a helmet like other road users.
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I've never worn a helmet either in my car or when walking. |
You;ve got a bloody great big metal shell round you when you're in a car. It's that shell that usually hurts the people outside it.
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You know it makes sense.
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nbt,
I agree, though hopefully I drive with consideration for other road users as a cyclist myself. I do wear a helmet usually on my bicycle but fail to see why it should be compulsory on my bike but not in my car. There are more people killed in cars than on bikes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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T Bar,
2 points - and I don;t havethe figures
1) I woul guess that the number of pasenger miles travelled in cars / people killed is far higher than the equivalent for cyclists
2) of the injuries / fatalities in car acciidents, what percentage would have been helped by a helmet?
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Poster: A snowHead
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The simple fact remains that bad driving injures cyclists, clamp down on bad driving save lives. Simple.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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nbt,
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1) I woul guess that the number of pasenger miles travelled in cars / people killed is far higher than the equivalent for cyclists
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Yep, mortality per mile is higher on bikes but absolute mortality is higher by car.
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2) of the injuries / fatalities in car acciidents, what percentage would have been helped by a helmet?
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This is unknown for bikes and cars , there is limited evidence argued by some cyclists that you are at least as safe without a helmet.
Rally drivers formula 1 drivers etc. seem to think helmets are useful, I guess they would help in some situations.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| T Bar wrote: |
nbt,
I agree, though hopefully I drive with consideration for other road users as a cyclist myself. I do wear a helmet usually on my bicycle but fail to see why it should be compulsory on my bike but not in my car. There are more people killed in cars than on bikes. |
Have I misunderstood something here?
You're not sure why it should be compulsory to wear a helmet on a bike, but not compulsory to wear one in your CAR?
What kind of twisted un-joined up thinking is that?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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markP,
Helmets can be a nuisance to cyclists as for short journeys they are a pain to carry around. Cycling is probably good for you and possibly for the country as a whole, less polluting, less damaging to the road, less dangerous to other road users. ergo It is sensible not to put impediments in their way such as requiring helmets to be worn.
If you think that there is an overwhelming need to improve public safety and require people to wear helmets more people are killed driving cars than on bikes therefore it makes more sense to require car users to wear them. They are not even inconvenient in a car as you can leave them on the seat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You. Are. Bonkers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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markP, so am I.
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| markP wrote: |
| You. Are. Bonkers. |
You are probably right, my wife tells me the same but I still don't see much logic in requiring cyclists to wear helmets that does not apply to car users.
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I suspect it has a little to do with the fact that an accident involving a cyclist will tend to be at slower speed and that the impact of the head against a car and or pavement at those slow speeds can be grievous. In which case the helmet may save the user from serious injury or death.
However the same does not remotely apply to car users. Wearing a cycling helmet in car I suspect isn't going to save a solitary life.
Wearing a motorbike helmet, apart from being impossible due to the fairly obvious headroom restrictions, would severely restrict your view.
Or do you envisage some kind of transparent lightweight bubble?
There really is no logic in your logic.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| T Bar wrote: |
markP,
Helmets can be a nuisance to cyclists as for short journeys they are a pain to carry around. |
I was hospitalised 250m from my house on Monday last week after a freak accident where the peak from my helmet fell off and jammed the front wheel. My helmet caused the accident and saved my life ..bit of a paradox there. But I am so glad I wear it no matter how long the journey.
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markP,
Rally drivers find no difficulty in wearing helmets inside cars and presumably consider it potentially beneficial in accidents of similar speeds to other car users.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DaveB,
I have no wish to discourage you from wearing a helmet and trust you are fully recovered.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks..bought a ski helmet yesterday as well....
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Have you ever seen a Rally Car in action? There's nothing similar whatsoever.
They have roll cages, a lower seating position, no interior trim, and travel at huge velocities in between trees and walls and such like.
They have no need to parallel park, reverse round corners or sit in traffic.
So basically. Your Logic circuit is still broken.
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You know it makes sense.
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DaveB,
I hope you never need it, but should you do I hope it gives you maximum protection
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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markP,
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They have roll cages,
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So they are safer than ordinary cars but helmets are still used.
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travel at huge velocities in between trees and walls and such like.
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The cause of a lot of fatalities
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They have no need to parallel park, reverse round corners or sit in traffic.
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I think most drivers are capable of turning their heads, properly designed helmets should not impede this.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The instructions for my bike helmet, fully compliant with EN1078, states that serious injury and death may occur at walking pace, even if wearing a helmet. Hmmm - so that's effective then!!! Therefore every pedestrian really should be wearing helmet, because they never know when they might trip up a kerb.
Have to agree with nbt etc. - if you want to make a statement suggesting bike helmets are made compulsory... take it to a cycling forum. But make sure you take some hard evidence with you first.
At least ski/boarding helmets are probably designed for multiple impacts, and there isn't the added complication of road vehicles, or the necessity to trade off ventilation vs impact resistance. Bike helmets are single impact only, and will most likely shatter on first impact with a car or road.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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markP, I have to say I found the logic of T bar quite robust. Your logic, on the other hand, doesn't quite come close.
Rally car drivers PROVE helmets are useful. Yet, nobody has the courage to REQUIRE all drivers to wear one. Yet the same people are trying to make that compulsory for cyclists. The only difference I could see, is most people who enact such requirements drive. So don't want to be inconvenient. But it's ok to require it for cyclists, especially when they do not cycle themselves.
I don't wear a helmet driving. But if I were to try out driving a rally car, I would wear one. I don't wear a helmet cycling to the corner cafe nor skiing around the piste. But I would wear one if I were racing (cycle or ski)!
Requiring a casual cyclist to wear a helmet is no different than requiring a casual driver to wear a helmet. Helmets are useful in both cases indeed. So the double standard is inconsistant.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Crash helmets are mandatory on motorcycles and even moped, where they are helpful and practical, and evidence suggests they save lives - it is not a problem to wear one.
Seatbelts are mandatory in cars, where they are helpful and practical, and it is not a problem to wear one - wearing helmets in cars in city traffic would be stupid and counter-productive, there is no evidence it would save lives, so we don't have to do it.
The situations in both cycling and skiiing, and even climbing, are similar to each other - helmets can be practical safety precautions, but evidence supporting thier use is not yet (and may never be) overwhelming, so while many believe they are sensible they are not mandatory. (I wear helmets for cycling and skiing, but not always for climbing - I make my own decisions)
That said - if an accident occurrs, and a court concludes that injuries would have been reduced by taking a sensible safety measures - wearing a helmet - why should damages not be reduced due to a contributory factor?
andy, Yes cycle helmets are "single use" - but so is my head!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| RobinS wrote: |
That said - if an accident occurrs, and a court concludes that injuries would have been reduced by taking a sensible safety measures - wearing a helmet - why should damages not be reduced due to a contributory factor?
andy, Yes cycle helmets are "single use" - but so is my head! |
There in lies the problem - an insurer could argue that back protectors, full face DH mountain bike helmets, shin protectors, knee pads and elbow pads are available in shops so if not worn the compo should be even lower. It'll get to the point when the cyclists are having to fork out for the damage their body armour did to a drivers car!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
There in lies the problem - an insurer could argue that back protectors, full face DH mountain bike helmets, shin protectors, knee pads and elbow pads are available in shops so if not worn the compo should be even lower.
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An insurer can argue what they like, but it will be the court who decide. If a cyclists actions were reasonable they will generally be fine - the insurer would have to convince the court that they were negligent in not wearing those things. For example - cyclist not using lights after dark - contributory negligence, not having lights in daylight, no problem.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ah but if it suited them and saved paying out Insurers would claim the Pope was a muslim or whatever !
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weeSKI, but as RobinS said; a court would probably disagree with them.
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wearing helmets in cars in city traffic would be stupid and counter-productive,
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Don't paritcularly see why it would be counter- productive. It's actually a lot more of a pain to arrange somewhere to put your lid in a bike or mbike than it is in a car.
Fatal crashes are certainly far more common on country roads than in town though they do happen in town and many people travel through towns and cities on their way to country roads.
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there is no evidence it would save lives, so we don't have to do it.
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The same is true for bicycles.
I am not advocating a law to enforce helmet wearing amongst vehicle users or advocating that cyclists or vehicle users should or should not wear helmets.
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FAQ
