 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
CEM, yes, but you get Mayonnaise on your chips, instead of Salt & Vinegar.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
easiski, not sure it's fair for you to be deciding on one bad experience, and so far as the poor teaching goes, you know that can happen on dry and on real mountains too. Re: your other concerns, I think that domes are here to stay and I don't think they can be turned off for the summer. I'm also unsure if it was worth having lots of little dry slopes here and there.
Look everyone, just like with the recent get obese skis or die thing, I'm mainly responding here, in this case to the contention too often trotted out on sH that MK is no good to man nor beast which has come mainly from some of the posters on this thread, plus one or two more who I'm still waiting for to come and deny their chips!  I don't think it's all things to all men, just that while lots of things could indeed be better, it is good enough for quite a lot of people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
slikedges, There are plenty of people who'll accept poor standards, mainly because they don't know or haven't experienced anything better, but I and a few others aren't amongst them. The whole mentality of it's good enough, or it's OK infuriates me, I strive for excellence in my what I do for a living, to not just meet expectations, but to exceed them and by a long way.
Why should if people are paying good money not have an excellent experience?
Let's see how many skiers who visit Hemel will go back to skiing at MK. Like CEM says, if MK only expect to lose 3% of their custom to Hemel, they're seriously deluded.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
slikedges, But it's not just my one bad experience is it? It's clearly been reproduced many times with many other people. I'm not saying you shouldn't go (and clearly your kids enjoy the club as do others we both know). I'm not saying that there aren't excellent coaches there. What I am saying is that for the money charged the product is poor. What's more unknowing beginners etc are being lulled into parting with lots of their cash in the belief that it will save them time and money on holiday, and that's untrue. the worst teaching on the mountain is no worse than what I've seen from the snowdomes!
I've not seen this type of programme offered by the dry slopes - that's normally a course of lessons which is much more practical and worthwhile. There was a time when almost no-one in England lived more than 30 mins from skiing - this is certainly no longer true, and I think it's a shame. I also think it's a shame that fewer people are prepared to ski on dry slopes largely because you have to do it better!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I must say, I've taught "learn to ski in a day" courses in the UK, and I'm not a fan. For a start they're too long, 6 hours is more than you'd get in a day at beginner's ski school in the mountains. People get tired, and children get bored. It's very different to teaching day 1 beginners in the mountains, as there there is lots going on around you, you're outside in the fresh air, you're relaxed as you're on holiday etc. By the end of the 6 hrs people haven't achieved as much as they would do after 6 hrs in the mountains (roughly lunchtime day 2) or 6 hrs split up into a course in the UK.
So if anyone asked my advice I'd always say go for the course broken up - although maybe the 1 day course suits some people for time reasons or whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not going to go down the route of agreeing /disagreeing as to ski in a day /private lesson/group lesson but one thing is for sure if these centeres were around when i learnt to ski i would have had some lessons in the UK before i went to switzerland, i felt 1/2 the week was wasted as the group had to wait til everyone was good enough before we could progress from the nursery slope and actually get up the mountain
if i had had a few lessons i would have skipped that bit and would have started in a group with a little experience...this would have improved my holiday experience further
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Generally I've found when working for Interski that most of the kids who've had some lessons in the UK end up back in the beginners' group. They're not good enough to join in with the people who've done a while week's skiing before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
beanie1, on the school trip i was on....20something years ago!!!! there was a group who had all had some lesson on cairngorm, not much, but enough to get them moving rather than faffing about for 3 days waiting for the uncoordinated kid to learn how to stop
the statement you made says a lot about the current level of ski teaching on uk slopes..... when i was teaching on the plastic we had a slope policy that the highest qualified instructor available taught the beginners class the theory being that if the foundation skills where correct then the learning experience would be easier and better, this could mean a basi 2 or even 1 was teaching snowplough turns, but they all new that A they were getting paid a good rate to do so and B that they wwould continue the lessons through intermediate, adv/int and advanced group [the business continuation in this place was amazing and most slopes could learn a lot by following their model]
the problem as i see it now is most slopes want to employ minimumly qualified instructors because they are cheaper...there was one guy who worked at snowdome when i was there, he passed his club instructor cert, and was teaching in there he had never skiied anywhere except snowdome....the shock he got when he did get out and encounter a ski lift must have been severe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Norwich (Club run) slope does offer "Learn to ski in a day" packages, offering the same amount of tuition as four sessions worth of beginner lessons, but it is emphasised to everyone that that is only the start. After that you can only go to the supervised practice sessions, and need to be signed of from that before you are even allowed in open practice. Also improver lessons, and instruction at Mens/Ladies/Junior clubs are offered, in the effort to make learning to ski an ongoing thing. I have now skied for 5 winters, but still go to an instructed session one evening a week year round - the more you learn, the more realise there is to learn!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Spyderman, economics
easiski, your main issue there is the learn in a day classes. I agree that there are conceptual problems with it which can result in a poor result. However it has a place in the market for those who travel from afar and want to get it done in a day. You may argue the slope should take a professional position not to offer it but there is obviously a good market for it and the slope needs to make money. Please don't forget though that the majority of lessons taught are not done this way, but as either twin level 3 hour sessions or individual level 1 hour lessons, just as on dry.
easiski, beanie1, a very good point is made by CEM. That there is always someone whose learning pace holds the group up. This really is less of a problem for the other members of the group in the confines of a dome. From that individual's viewpoint however, I'd make the point that learn in a day works only for those who are of at least average fitness and coordination. I'd recomment patience and more time to those who aren't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| slikedges wrote: |
Spyderman, economics
|
Sorry, but work ethic and attitudes to customer service has nothing to do with economics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
slikedges, I totally agree with you as you can see in my post above - I just don't think it's a very good way to learn to ski, and like you say only any good for people who are fit, and even then it's hard. I can't remember the last time I actually skiied for 6 hours straight, bearing in mind beginners aren't spending time on lifts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Spyderman, I think it does actually - one of the main gripes on here is the over-crowding at peak times. To make these places work, you absolutely have to maximise numbers at peak times, even if that leads to a customer experience which will undoubtedly be nowhere near as good as it is in off peak times.
It's no different to using a gym at peak times - you pay more but know you will have to wait to use some of the more popular equipment. Or going on a ski holiday at half term - you pay more and know you will have to suffer horrific lift queues. But you do it anyway due to your time constraints and because you have made the decision that it is preferable to not doing it at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
beanie1, I'm talking about a general attitude, how you deal with your customers, whether it's empty or rammed to the rafters. That has nothing to do with economics.
You can treat people like cattle or you can treat them like they are important to you, after all they pay your wages.
An example for you, 2 restaurants, both excellent food, equal cost, one has great service, the other is rude and unhelpful. Which one would you take someone to?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Spyderman, cant help but take the bait here but are you implying that people are treated like cattle and the customer service at MK is rude and unhelpful?
Yes i know 18 months ago you vowed to never return for various reasons and that a single bad experience by a customer can forever taint the reputation of any venue in that customers mind. You do however seem to be on a mission to continually put the boot in about MK and choose not to listen to those who have recent experience there, always going back to the bad old days in your mind. I will be working to ensure both venues offer a fun experience and i dont see the point in slagging off the competition in this small industry. Customers near both places will vote with their feet but until Hemel has a track record as a dome comparisions are a bit early days.
The coaching/instructing sessions i deliver at MK EVERYONE enjoys, they dont like paying for parking/lockers, poma's not working and when the snow depth is thin complain about the lack of gates, but the staff arent rude to us, we arent treated like cattle and the work ethic, even by the youngsters, is surprisingly not too bad. We have disabled skiers and they move heaven and earth to help them even when it is really busy. I for one am not rude and have a decent work ethic. The un motivated instructors who were only there to get free skiing for their kids have been given the boot. The rental and maintenence people have been shaken down as well. It is rammed there during the winter season and can get overcrowded but on the whole most people just like in resort during busy periods are pretty patient when queing for lifts and rental gear only complaining when something goes wrong.
Is Great customer service provided, no, but was it Great at your last visit to Alton Towers, Butlins, your local gym, train station, etc . Customer service in England is lousy in general. With your high standards you should apply for a Quality control managers position at Hemel to ensure that they (we ) continue to be the finest ski hill in the UK 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
skimottaret, got to say i have had pretty bad experiences with various things including staff attitude at MK, if i had been paying i would have been making a complaint....but when it's free you kind of put up with more than the paying public should have to
about time they had a shake down on the staff front, it was getting beyond a joke
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
skimottaret, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
skimottaret, I think Helmets need to be in both categories 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
skimottaret, My point was that good customer service is not reliant on economics.
I did not say that MK treated people like cattle, that's your inference.
As you can clearly read, I've made no reverence to the current state of play, because quite rightly you've said I will no longer set foot in the place.
In deed you seem to be in a minority of people who actually have anything good to say about MK.
I think it's now a good time to put speculation to bed and give it 12 months to let the 2 centres prove their popularity with paying users.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
Spyderman, so if i turn up for my first day of work at Hemel with my "I love Xscape" badge on it wont be a good idea? 
|
"I love Xscape" Badge, I should keep hold of that badge, it must be pretty rare, if not unique LOL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Spyderman, Myself and Slikedges had some made up to show solidarity 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
slikedges, I did tell you that getting 3 made was too many
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| beanie1 wrote: |
one of the main gripes on here is the over-crowding at peak times. To make these places work, you absolutely have to maximise numbers at peak times, even if that leads to a customer experience which will undoubtedly be nowhere near as good as it is in off peak times.
|
At MK, this is certainly done at the expense of hardcore regular skiers like myself. The sort of people who might potentially use the slope regularly all year round if they enjoyed it. But no, they think it's better to give priority to toboganning. And what about annual memberships for regular slope users? Is there even such a thing at MK?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
uktrailmonster, call me crazy but I'm getting the feeling you don't like the place
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
No-one was actively rude to me at MK. they didn't seem to care much though, and when I asked for a refund because it hadn't been possible to test skis properly I was told that I'd have to see the manager, who wasn't there at that time. When I asked the girl in charge of looking after the slope at the top to chuck out the teenage hoodies who couldn't ski, she wasn't interested in that either (she appeared to be afraid to approach them). 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
The first time I went to MK, it was so busy, I only managed to get 4 runs in, in one hour. When I tried to complain, nobody was interested.
It would appear that customer service is an alien concept at MK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
I asked for a refund because it hadn't been possible to test skis properly
|
gotta bite on this one, what does that mean ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
skimottaret, You go to an advertised ski test, pay for 3 hours, and for at least one hour they close the bottom of the open slope for lugeing, the bottom of the other slope is littered with closed freestyle obstacles that they couldn't be bothered to put away (going to use them again tomorrow). For a portion of the time one's runs were seriously curtailed by theabove mentioned hoodies - you couldn't start until they'd crashed as they were so dangerous ... to test skis you should do the same turns in the same order on each pair. Clearly it was impossible in these circs to test a variety of skis. I had gone partly to the SHs meet, but mainly to test skis as I never get much chance during the season... Seriously, for me to pay £10 an hour to go skiing is huge, I had to sign a document to say that I was capable of doing controlled turns, and then they didn't throw off people who weren't. The lugeing was inexcusable (would have been OK if the other side had been clear). There was no warning that this was likely to happen either.
Even considering the poor customer service at Gloucester, it's still a much more pleasant experience than MK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| Quote: |
I asked for a refund because it hadn't been possible to test skis properly
|
gotta bite on this one, what does that mean ? |
I also went there solely to test Burnin Luvs and really couldn't give an opinion on them. I spent what must have been 50 minutes of my hour on the lifts often stood around half way up while someone faffs, I know it's got to happen but it was frustrating or queueing for the lifts. On the slope you couldn't pick up any speed to turn nicely, mostly because of the gradient but it was very busy too and it was like skiing on sand. I've now got new skis that I think will take a good while before I get full control of them and I'm really wary about going back there but I don't fancy waiting til May for Hemel to open.
Does anyone know if MK does slalom sessions?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I really believe that the opening of Hemel will improve the guest experience at MK. There is enough business for both to function during the winters, that’s partly the problem with MK. It’s a victim of being a desirable place for snowsport enthusiast, despite what we think! With Hemel opening they will inevitably raise their game and improve the service and experience they offer.
MK is very busy in the winter and can be frustrating, however I have skied in some of the world’s premier Alpine ski resorts and whilst standing in a line with 1000 other people thought “how can this be service for what I paid for my lift pass”. Then I have been ran over and knocked to my feet and thought “who’s policing this place, What’s that A***hole doing up here”! I have had some great skiing up at MK, just got to pick your time. Same will apply at Hemel or any ski area in the world.
The telling time will be off season. During the winter there is enough custom for more indoor slopes, during summer the business need to think a little out of the box. At Hemel there will be a different feel to how we have set up our business model. We have a focus on being a training centre for both Ski and snowboard. As well as this we see ourselves as a place for grass roots ski and SB to be harnessed and flourish. This is maybe what is miss understood, we are never going to replace skiing / sbing in the Alps. We are an urban ski facility and many people will use us as such, along with people training to go on holiday.
There is no desire on our part to damage MKs business, in fact we have a very positive relationship with the Directors. With two centres competing for your business you will be the winners and ultimately decide on which centre you prefer.
PSG
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
gilleski, Well Said That Man!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
. Never mind, I'll cheer myself up by buying those fat skis for the dome I've been thinking about (not to ski on, too busy there, just to walk about with). 