 Poster: A snowHead
|
We recently hired an apartment in Chatel through the central booking office.
The owner took a cleaning deposit saying that she would return it when we checked out. As we decided to leave for the airport extra early because of recent snowfall (06h30) we went around to the owner's house the night before to see what she wanted to do. Rather than meets us at 06h15 she said that she would inspect the property later and mail us the deposit. To make extra sure we cleaned the apartment better than I have ever even cleaned my own house. We even bought some sponges as there were none available.
Needless to say we haven't received our money back. On complaining to the central booking office they said that the owner alleges the apartment was not clean - especially the fridge (which was spotless except for two unopened beers).
Is there someone that I can complain to? I don't hold out much hope of getting our money back - but I will not be able to sleep properly until I have at least tried.
In future I will just man up and drink those extra beers!
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Lodge a formal complaint with the tourist office against the property owner cc her on the email and threaten to name and shame if its not resolved satisfactorily
Then maybe consider mailing her some excrement 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Did you give them a cheque for the deposit? If so cancel it asap.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Duvet,  that's really horrible. And I think you were unlucky, too. But if it was a cheque you left with her, maybe she just ripped it up?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Book it again next year.
Have a massive party on your last night, charging a fiver on the door and sell drinks to cover your deposit x 2 and leave her to pick up the peices
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Duvet, ask the owner or the agent for an itemised bill of all the charges that were deducted from your deposit. I provide sponges and cloths, you can't expect people to leave a place clean without the equipment to do so. I also include the final cleaning in my rental charges, although I do take a damage deposit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tell me you didn't give her a cash deposit ...?
she's being a real sunnavabiatch trying to keep the deposit though. What you should do is book up next year, give her a cheque as the deposit, and then get your money's worth from the previous year by trashing the place / stealing the fridge  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duvet, how long ago did you rent the apartment. Did the booking conditions say when you could expect your deposit back?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Thanks for responses - it makes me feel better. I did pay in cash I'm afraid (Doh!). It was four weeks since we checked out so I emailed the booking office today and got the above response.
I have now sent a more strongly worded email asking for itemised charges, with some gentle threats of 'complaints to Ski magazines and internet forums..'
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duvet, are you communicating with them en francais? Might help. If not, then a well written letter in French? I'm not sure that the threat of complaints to mags & forums will worry them too much (they don't know just how big  's is) but maybe would take some more notice if you were to contact the regional tourist office or even the town mayor?
How much are you owed?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Not entirely surprised....some owners have been known to exploit this little trick.
Have known owners complain about the state of the chalet even when left entirely presentable.........even though cleaning was included
If you feel agrieved, I would indeed complain via the Tourist office and to the letting agent....
It goes without saying that you will make it clear that you will not be returning to the same..and you will publish it.
Now, the Swiss will generally feel upset that you have even questioned it and pulled them up on this dodgey tactic.... they might think you are fair game and expect you to take it...
Depends on you......I doubt the TO will be so pleased for their reputation to be tarnished after all the hard work they put in getting people there...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I have had exactly the same issue in western France a few summers ago... early departure, spotless villa, "we'll mail the deposit", then false claims of dirty state etc. It was about £100 but I gave up the email mayhem and phone calls vowing to doorstop the old bag one day and make her feel seriously uncomfortable. Not a lot you can do about it without it ruling your life. Think I'll email her right now actually saying I'm in the area and will be popping by soon!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
How about this? £165 for linen for 5 per week... thought that was a bit steep ..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Duvet, if the owners are French, you probably have little official recourse. I'm surprised that they haven't communicated with you directly, although if you booked through the TO that might explain it.
Our policy is to explicitly state what people will get charged (i.e. €25 per bin bag taken to the bin, €50/hour excess cleaning, etc.) - but we do find that the French typically leave it immaculately clean as they don't expect the final cleaning to be included in the price.
I would expect (and we give) detailed breakdowns of what we're charging and why, on the rare event that we do charge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
€25 per bin bag taken to the bin, €50/hour excess cleaning
|
Dick Turpin Tours?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Bode Swiller, It's all clearly stated, the main bin is 10 yards away, excess cleaning means anything that's "not normal" and generally involves taking stuff to laundry/dry cleaners - so 40 minutes of staff time and €35 of external cleaning costs. The bin bag things is to be fair, a deterrent, the cleaning doesn't cover the real costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
under a new name, can I be your cleaner.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, It's all clearly stated, the main bin is 10 yards away, excess cleaning means anything that's "not normal" and generally involves taking stuff to laundry/dry cleaners - so 40 minutes of staff time and €35 of external cleaning costs. The bin bag things is to be fair, a deterrent, the cleaning doesn't cover the real costs. |
Nice try but it's a staggering p!ss take.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Apologies if this appears twice but it seemed to disappear just as I had finished...
Linen is expensive - our chalet costs us £177 to put in hired linen and towels for 8 people, and it would be slightly more if we were to use our own stuff and send that to be laundered. Its now so much that when we quote rates for the summer we don't include the linen any more and ask if people want to take their own or have it hired.
Cleaning is much higher than the UK but then the cleaners generally have to be brought into the village and it is a real supply/demand situation on transfer Saturdays.
We include a short clean, 2.5 hours at the end of stay and say that any cleaning required in excess of that will be taken from the security deposit. In 7 or 8 years we have never had to do that - but we are now being charged just over 30 euros an hour for cleaning.
Duvet - hope you get your deposit back, and generally a reasoned letter, particularly copied to the tourist office should work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
For anyone in this situation in the future where you have to leave early I would suggest taking photographs before you leave.
This would 'prove' to some extent that you left the place in a reasonable state.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bode Swiller, under a new name, is probably at the mercy of the Dick Turpin cleaning company. Decent cleaners/property managers are like hen's teeth. Any costs over and above normal are likely to be extortionate. If charges appear ridiculously high, it is done for a reason, and that is to make sure guests leave the place as they found it. And he is right about one thing, French leave the place immaculate. I have only had to deduct from the damage deposit once, and that was for the early departure of a UK family. My cleaner took photos of the state of the place so they had no option but to pay up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ha ha - don't underestimate the power of thc internet - my threats worked - just had email from booking office saying they will personally post me the cash tomorrow, minus a bit for admin and postage.
Big up to Chatel Central booking office - Boo Hiss to Madame H........!
Thanks all. Lesson learnt. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Linen is expensive - our chalet costs us £177 to put in hired linen and towels for 8 people, and it would be slightly more if we were to use our own stuff and send that to be laundered. Its now so much that when we quote rates for the summer we don't include the linen any more and ask if people want to take their own or have it hired.
|
It's unusual for linen to be included in private rents in France. When our Belgian friends visited us (in UK) in the summer, with friends who had kids working in the UK and who would be there at weekends, we didn't have room for them all and they asked us to find them a rented house in the village for a week. I found a very good place - and they were absolutely thrilled and amazed to find that not only was linen included, the beds were all made up for them.
I do some end of let cleaning, very informal, for friends out in our development. I've also done some washing and drying/folding (but not ironing) of linen at 10 euros a load. When all the beds are in use (2 bedroom apartment plus sofa bed) it's 6 loads - so that's 60 euros just for laundry. I'm not exactly making a fortune out of it, with the cost of water and electricity! It's a fair bit of work. A proper laundry would no doubt charge more, and somebody would have to be paid to strip the beds, transport heavy bags to the laundry, and bring the linen back. End of let cleaning, if people leave the place in a good state (which they generally do) takes about 2 hours, on average. And I am "sur place". If I had to drive and charge mileage and/or travelling time I would charge 30 euros an hour too - as it is I charge 30 euros a clean. This is where the renters have paid a cleaning charge - if they opt to do their own, I just look in to make sure it's OK.
When friends rented an adjoining apartment in our place recently their basic rent included X units of electricity. They paid deposit (actually, I handed over a euro cheque, as we know the owners) and had to meet the cleaning lady at the end, to make sure all was clean, and check whether they'd used more than X units of electricity, which would have been deducted from their deposit. We had left by then, and she just gave them back my cheque, which they ripped up. But the kind of situation described by the OP is, I suppose, one of the risks of DIY holidays (like booking a place on the internet then finding didn't exist, or that you'd paid someone posing as the owner). TOs arrangements ought to be able to guard against that sort of risk - or using a proper local agent, rather than an individual, would also give you some confidence that you wouldn't be cheated.
If I were renting my place out commercially I would tell people to bring their own linen - and give them the contact numbers for the place which rents out laundry, in the village (it's at least 25 euros per bed, with no towels included, and you have to go and fetch it yourself, and take it back). So I can well understand that owners have to charge to fully cover these costs. I suspect all French resorts have such hire places, because it's what the locals are used to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Linen is expensive - our chalet costs us £177 to put in hired linen and towels for 8 people, and it would be slightly more if we were to use our own stuff and send that to be laundered. Its now so much that when we quote rates for the summer we don't include the linen any more and ask if people want to take their own or have it hired.
|
I've also done some washing and drying/folding (but not ironing) of linen at 10 euros a load. When all the beds are in use (2 bedroom apartment plus sofa bed) it's 6 loads - so that's 60 euros just for laundry. I'm not exactly making a fortune out of it, with the cost of water and electricity! It's a fair bit of work. A proper laundry would no doubt charge more, and somebody would have to be paid to strip the beds, transport heavy bags to the laundry, and bring the linen back. |
Pam W
sounds quite resonable to me.
FYI the laundrette in Vallandry charges seasonaires 7 euro 'a load' for wash/dry/fold where a load is a bit more than you'd get in an average domestic machine but obviously doesn't include transport etc..
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Duvet wrote: |
Ha ha - don't underestimate the power of thc internet - my threats worked - just had email from booking office saying they will personally post me the cash tomorrow, minus a bit for admin and postage.
Big up to Chatel Central booking office - Boo Hiss to Madame H........!
Thanks all. Lesson learnt. |
Nice one, the Snowhead Mafia made her an offer she couldn't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
jbob, if you like. You won't.
Bode Swiller, no. It's not. And I'm not rising any further to any challenge. It is not a p1ss take and if you saw what my staff see on a thankfully infrequent basis you'd agree. You claim to be in the industry? huh...
Helen Beaumont, I am lucky to have my own staff who can cope with most things (they also outcontract so know what's going on elsewhere), so not much Dick Turpinism around. We based the €50 excess cleaning rate on the average for the local valley. Apologies to anyone from whom we plagiarised.
Bin bags can be dropped off in 30 seconds flat (I have timed myself) so if anyone leaves any, well, tough. We're not crazy though - we don't make money out of anyone from this, we don't expect spotless, just not trashed. (We have had trashed...) It's a right bvgger when you have 6 hours to get 3 apartments cleaned and you have to find (variously) a new hob, fridge, oven, dining table, kitchen surface, etc. I kid you not...
Or you find yourself full and realise that someone has stolen a duvet.
On the whole though, our clients have been really clean, careful and friendly.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 18-02-09 22:51; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duvet, EXCELLENT!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Duvet,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
What a great way to finish a holiday... deep cleaning an apartment, going to the bins. under a new name, I think it was your bin bag disposal charge that got to me. Anyway, I use hotels, can make as much mess as I like within reason (even though I don't) and leave it for someone who isn't on vacation to clean up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Duvet, great news.
Mental note made to avoid Madame H of Chatel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| What a great way to finish a holiday... deep cleaning an apartment, going to the bins |
And after such a great start ..... make up the beds, unpack all the cornflakes, tea bags, baked beans etc, go food shopping .....
No, hotels/chalets every time  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Bode Swiller, I don't know, it's surely not that bad? 'er indoors massively prefers s/c apartments to hotels as A. we spend way too much time in hotels anyway (on biz) and B. an apartment automatically stocks lots of your favourite food and wine (cos' you did the shopping). If you are naturally quite clean it's no issue to leave it as you found it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I am being asked to pay CHF 25 per person for linen which I have no problem with, also 500CHF Breakage deposit (in cash) per apt of which my group are taking two for a stay in Verbier in 3 weeks time.
I suggested a credit card as an alternative but the companys t+c,s are clear.
We too have an early departure.
No deep clean is mentioned but the cash thing worries me somewhat.
I can as a landlord myself understand their point of view but it is a lot of cash to tie up for a long weekends skiing.
If Gordon Brown was in charge of course the deposit would have to be held in an independent deposit account with a body of impartial ombudsmen to oversee any disputes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
One thing I did notice in Duvet, first post was the part about leaving 2 unopened beers in the fridge. I know it does'nt really apply apply perhaps to unopened beers, but I have a real problem with food and drink being "helpfully left for the next people" since some friends of ours had an unfortunate experience where some undesirable previous resident had doctored a bottle of fruit juice, which one of their children innocently decided to drink.....
We make it clear that no food or drink is to be left and if it is, our cleaner bins the lot. Although we manage our own place I know the local agencies do the same, and charge for the disposal. I know it sounds wasteful but would you want to be, at least partly, responsible for a child drinking some obnoxious/ poisonus liquid that some client from hell has left in the fridge.?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I challenge you to beat this for expensive cleaning.
For the last few years we have booked with ILS Holiday Chalets and, as you can guess by our repeat custom, they are lovely chalets, well equipped, good size, on slopes etc. But, they have a end of stay cleaning charge, called an extra but is compulsory, of €250 
Ok I knew that was the price before booking and between 9 of us is bearable - but personally I wish they upped the chalet price and told me it was included. I suppose the reason it grated a bit this year was the chalets were not particularly clean when we arrived - they were ok, but obviously hadn't been to a high standard.
As I suspected at the time, ILS were in the process of being taken over and maybe standards had slipped. There were two gormless English lads doing the cleaning rather than an army of local French Madames - possibly in a last ditch cost saving attempt.
I believe we weren't the only people to complain but I really don't hold out much hope.
But who cares cos I'm going skiing again in April 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Boris, that is extortionate !!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's certainly extortionate as a cleaning charge, I suppose you just have to look at the overall cost and decide whether it's good value compared to the competition. The way the charges are presented is probably to do with French taxation, but the labelling really doesn't matter from the holiday-makers point of view. It's like having a £5 airfare with an extra £30 for your suitcase. £35 might still be a good deal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
under a new name, fortunately, so have ours, and apart from the odd broken glass, and a couple of gouges in the ceramic hob, we've been lucky not to be trashed. It would be very difficult to find all of those replacements in Briancon , especially as our changeover day has to be a Sunday.
skitow, my cleaner will remove anything that has been opened, but will leave non-perishable stuff in the cupboard, and beer gets removed to our store room for consumption by the owners at a later date . However, a carton of milk is most welcome when you arrive late.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pam w, indeed - as a bundle I was happy with the total cost and I knew it in advance. It just annoys me when its listed as an extra, along with other genuine optional extras - eg logs, bread delivery etc.
There was no option but to pay this - again with the exchange rate it was more noticeable! Between the 6 adults the view was we'd have been able to clean the chalet very well if we had the chance
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
