 brian
brian
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... in Leysin.
http://www.24heures.ch/vaud/actu/skieur-condamne-su-freiner-2009-02-11
The local he hit has lost 45% of his hearing. Neither skier fully remembers the accident but there were witnesses and the court ruled that he had breached articles 2 & 3 of the FIS code of conduct:
"2. Control of speed and skiing. A skier must ski in control. He must adapt his speed and manner of skiing to his personal ability and to the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density of traffic.
3. Choice of route. A skier coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger skiers ahead. In other words, the skier in front/below always has priority."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmm. It looks like there was only one witness, a friend of the injured party. And it's all taken ages - miserable for all concerned. It would be useful if authorities were to stamp down, on the day, on people skiing out of control or recklessly, whether or not they hit anybody, by relieving them of their lift pass for a certain time. Or even have a stern word with them. Word would get around.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, I've had a stern word from a liftie in Megève. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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brian, Interesting that it took 4 long years to reach a conclusion. Were either of them wearing helmets? (thought I'd mention the "H" word to save anyone else the bother)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kruisler, I took my punishment like a man. 
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brian, hmmm, 4 years seems somewhat excessive. One (presumably biased) witness of unknown credibility or judgement seems injust.
"Je was skiing too fast" is one thing coming from an experienced (and unbiased) observer (high level instructor, coach or pisteur) and another thing from an absolute beginner.
Not desperately impressed with the legal system in this one...
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| Quote: |
Not desperately impressed with the legal system in this one..
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It's also based on the testimony of the Swiss friend of a Swiss victim in a Swiss legal system versus a foreigner, based on recollecting events from 4 years ago, without apparent corroboration, and no recollection from either of the parties actually involved in the accident. Clearly the burden of proof required isn't that high...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Clearly the burden of proof required isn't that high...
So is there a suggestion that the Swiss victim was in fact the perpetrator, it was all a conspiracy and he was above the Brit ?
If not, and Brit was above Swiss, then it's a fair cop, Chief . 
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laundryman, what were you up to?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If the trail was 4 years after the event, it's not a fair trial. I would,'t expect a foreigner to receive a fair trial in Switzerland for this sort of incident anyway, but after 4 years there's no chance.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, agreed. I wonder how the SCGB rep in the Verbier incident will be treated.
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| richmond wrote: |
| If the trail was 4 years after the event, it's not a fair trial. I would,'t expect a foreigner to receive a fair trial in Switzerland for this sort of incident anyway, but after 4 years there's no chance. |
The Justice actually went to the scene of the accident to examine the lay of the pistes. I can't honestly think that a British judge would hold a hearing on the slopes, though I may be doing the British judiciary a disservice.
The Brit had legal representation, and from reading the article it would appear to have been competent. Excessive speed was ruled out as a factor by the judge on the basis of evidence placed by the defense.
I'm not saying I agree with the verdict, nor disagree, but given the circumstances it would appear that he had a fair hearing.
...my God, I'm defending the Swiss... 
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, I bailed out of the Etudiants drag lift early to traverse across to the top of the race course.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ignoring the rights and wrongs of the verdict, I like the idea of the fine being proportional to the guilty party's income.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles,
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I wonder how the SCGB rep in the Verbier incident will be treated.
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Have I missed something?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rich.ll wrote: |
| Ignoring the rights and wrongs of the verdict, I like the idea of the fine being proportional to the guilty party's income. |
How would that work for ski bums?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, they could be executed instead. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar,
| Quote: |
rich.ll wrote:
Ignoring the rights and wrongs of the verdict, I like the idea of the fine being proportional to the guilty party's income.
How would that work for ski bums?
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If you don't have a job then do community service for the appropriate number of days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd prefer them to give up their ski pass for the appropriate number of days.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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seems fair enough to me.
hit someone from behind skiing- too fast / out of control- cause them injury expect a punishment- especially if they are knocked unconcious and need to be helicoptered off- drive a car like that and quite reasonably expect to go to jail.
(or if you hit and injure one of my children expect a good kicking (well probably not in reality but for years afterwards I will in my own head)) 
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45 days income for the 45% hearing loss..I like simple systems..
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| Steve Sparks wrote: |
achilles,
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I wonder how the SCGB rep in the Verbier incident will be treated.
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Have I missed something? |
Maybe.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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edsilva, err, if one was sure that that was what happened...as said above, neither party recalls what happened, there was one (and one must presume bias as they were a buddy of one of the participants and we have no idea how competent they were to judge anyone else's competence) witness and it's taken 4 years to get through the system. So one cannot be sure of a great deal, really.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Steve Sparks, here's a selected post - just one sH's hearsay account - but it gives you a flavour of what the rep may be having to face under the Swiss system.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't get many of the comments in this thread. We all complain about reckless skiers / boarders and then when someone is actually fined for it, quite a few people say "Oh, it's the Swiss system, an English person can't get a fair hearing".
It was a fine, after all. Losing 45 days of income hurts but it's not jailtime.
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i agree with horizon, although maybe if my French were better, the injustice would become crystal clear
anyway, my dodgy french makes me think that the award is under appeal anyway AND it looks like a civil action rather than a criminal one so "Steve's" insurer will probably pay. people who speak french properly feel free to set me straight
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mr Lizzard wrote: |
The Justice actually went to the scene of the accident to examine the lay of the pistes. I can't honestly think that a British judge would hold a hearing on the slopes, though I may be doing the British judiciary a disservice. |
He was there for 2 weeks, apparently finding it necessary to ski every run once and all the reds twice and also visit neighbouring Villars and Verbier to compare the 'lay' of their pistes. One can only admire his dedication really...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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red 27,
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One can only admire his dedication really...
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The article also states that he decided to convene the court in the revolving restaurant at the top of the mountain, that has spectacular views over Lake Geneva. It's clearly tough being a member of the Swiss judiciary.
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Poster: A snowHead
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horizon, I'm all for local - and if appropriate, severe - justice - where there is corroborated evidence, and the case is brought promptly. Not what happened in the Swiss case, it would seem. The size of the penalty is one thing - the criminal record another - as anyone filling in an application to go to the USA will know.
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