 Poster: A snowHead
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Also known by many other names.
Does anyone actually know it anymore? More to the point, does anyone actually teach it? (I got the impression that I was the only one doing so last week)...
Just finishing a great first day of skiing at Whistler and was clattered over by a woman on a snowboard.
I had spent the day working on my GS skis - I thought they had been running away from me a bit last time I tried them, so I thought I'd get it sorted ahead of the race later this week. Turns out that I wasn't angulating enough - my weight was too far inside so the outside ski kept shooting off!
Anyway, I diverge (just like the ski...  ).
Whilst working on this I picked a nice, wide slope of moderate pitch (N American blue run). I was making very rhythmical turns, of almost exactly the same timing, turn shape etc etc. Being on GS skis, and railing/carving I was, as you can imagine, not exactly slow. Anyway, as I come across the slope, this woman comes crashing into me from above (now, she wasn't exactly going slowly, given how hard she hit me). Anyway, we pick ourselves up and check that each other are okay. Then her husband (or partner) decided to give me whatfor and informs me (not exactly politely) that it was my fault because I should have been looking up the hill... This was not to be his lucky day... As the woman had been reasonably apologetic (as had I in the traditional British fashion of apologising when not at fault) I had planned on just skiing off once we were up and sorted. But this berk's interjection put my back up slightly. So I gave him a bit of whatfor and just stopped short of calling him an ignorant twerp. Thankfully I didn't because 'Mountain Safety' had obviously seen what had happened and come across to check that all was well. They had obviously heard the idiot's comment, but had not had time to say anything before I started ranting. Anyway, they gave him a bit of whatfor about his comment too, and politely reminded the lady that it is the uphill users responsibilty to avoid down-hill skiers and boarders.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Unlucky. Canadian resorts are usually a better bet for avoiding being clattered by an idiot but Whistler blues are probably almost European at times. Did you tell him you'd copped a feel of his missus while getting up? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree that no one seems to know or care about this anymore - be interested to know if any of our resident instructors are teaching this?
This is very topical for me at the moment because I was taken out in much the same way as Simon describes above, only this time by some lady's front bottom on snow blades.
There I was, first morning of what was supposed to be a weeks skiing with a group of friends in the 3Vs. Had an early start and was cruising around getting the legs back when we decided to head to St Martin for a coffee. So we dropped of the top of the 3 Marches and with no one around, I settled into a nice pace of shortish turns down the inside of the piste until about 400 yards down, BANG! I was hit from behind. How he managed to hit me whilst on snow blades is the real surprise given that I was moving fairly quickly and the piste was wide and empty. By the time I had shaken the stars out of my head I knew something was wrong - later confirmed as a broken collar bone.
To make matters worse, the guy did not hang around so that by the time piste patrol had turned up to sledge me off the mountain, he was long gone. The gendarmes did turn up at the medical centre for a brief statement but I did not hear anymore.
So if you don't know the code, find and read it and make sure all of your ski group do the same.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I am going to put a copy of the skiers code in French and English in the guest information for my apartment, and include it with the information I send all our clients before they stay. After julesb 's recent accident, I think a reminder may be in order.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Helen Beaumont, good idea, lets hope more follow suit
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Does anyone have a link to a pdf file I could use?
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I was amazed last week by the number of people who don't realise that you should stop at the side of the piste. Above Vallandry the long beginners run (Foret) crosses every other run it seems at some point - the number of people who'd just stop in the middle of the intersection to work out where to go amazed me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Perhaps this is something that all SnowHeads could campaign for? Prominent display of the Skier's Code on piste maps,including those big notice boards on the slopes. A copy of the skiers code included with all lift pass purchases,and it's inclusion on the website of all ski resorts. We all have a responsibility for each other's safety on the slopes. Instead of arguing who is at fault , which has happened in other safety related threads, perhaps we can channel our energies into actually making the pistes safer places to be. It should be as important as the avalanche warning flags.
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Helen Beaumont, yes. good idea
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Helen Beaumont, personally I think that's a good idea. However this thread I posted as another suggestion hasn't generated much enthusiasm, so perhaps people aren't really too concerned about initiatives that are much easier to adopt. Surprising, especially given your recent, well-documented personal experience 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chasseur, I think it is an excellent idea. Sticky may appear shortly if I can organise it, but the registration thingy would be an admin job. I will draw someone's attention to it.
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Chasseur, to be fair - that's a forum section I suspect few ever venture into.
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You know it makes sense.
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I had indeed missed it myself, it tends to be where the grumpy old gits hang out
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I was talking about this with a family friend who, being a reasonable skateboarder, was taught to snowboard by friends in about 10 mins, and had never ever been near a Instructor, and was now on their 5th or 6th week of snowboarding, including venturing off-piste. I was questioning how were they supposed to learn the etiquette without formal lessons?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| WayneC wrote: |
| I was talking about this with a family friend who, being a reasonable skateboarder, was taught to snowboard by friends in about 10 mins, and had never ever been near a Instructor, and was now on their 5th or 6th week of snowboarding, including venturing off-piste. I was questioning how were they supposed to learn the etiquette without formal lessons? |
Well first off, most of it is just codifying what should be commion sense.
Then, if you are considering the code, it is written on a lot of piste maps, and posters/signs in many ski areas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Boris wrote: |
| I was amazed last week by the number of people who don't realise that you should stop at the side of the piste. |
This really annoys me too. In Val Thorens there are a couple of bridges at the top of town and every single time I skied over them there were people lined up across the whole width of the bridge forming some sort of impregnable gaper wall.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| Then, if you are considering the code, it is written on a lot of piste maps, and posters/signs in many ski areas. |
I'm not sure how many resorts you've been to to qualify part of that statement, but having seen your posts on a couple of Mayrhofen threads (so I'm guessing you've been there too), no mention is made of any mountain/skier/boarder code on their main piste map (available from the ski pass offices by the Penken lift) to be honest. I have it here in front of me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Chasseur, to be fair - that's a forum section I suspect few ever venture into. |
I know it as "The goldfish zone".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We learned to ski as big group of adults 10 years ago in Verbier. Many have never seen snow in their life, so everything was very foreign and totally out of our frame of reference. (Sounds a bit like ON THE PISTE 1987!) We were in grouplessons, and nobody explained the basic snowrules, piste rules or etiquette. They just started with lessons and we followed instructors.On the second day we skieed home and ended up on a black piste as we had not even been explained the different colours. I know it sounds incredible, but everyone doesnt grow up with snow. Later on we only read somewhere (i think on pistemap) about the rules and I remember then already thinking that this must be compulsary first lesson.
Have since taken lots of friends skiing and always make sure they know the rules, as the instructors mostly take it for granted that people know. It should be compulsory part of first lessons and further instruction. Surely it only takes a few minutes to explain...
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WayneC, couldnt agree more about lack of understanding through lack of formal lessons. Most these days seem to get a few 'tips' from their mates and hoon about without any consideration of other users or knowledge of basic safety.
our group this week have resorted to sticking poles out sideways when standing at side to keep others away for us as at least a dozen times people are cutting near us to get at the soft snow at the sides of the piste. One crashed into us, slowly though, and i had one guy ski over my tails at high speed.
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The skier's code was certainly taught to us in our beginner lessons with ESF in Flaine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think the increasing proliferation of these threads mean that everyone should begin to treat skiing as a potential contact sport.
You'll never educate every idiot out there much like you'll never avoid car crashes - the only practical solution is to make sure if you're in a risk area (i.e. a piste where you aren't the fastest or only person on it) you need to retain good spacial awareness and get your retaliation in first - I'd suggest a well deployed elbow or the clothes line "high arm" are good tools to employ or perhaps a simple stop and let the idiot pass to hurt someone else. I for one would get enoromous personal satisfaction from seeing toddlers in Ski Kinder practising stiffarming Pepi the Penguin.
It appears that there is insufficient legal ability to enforce the code in many European countries whereas in the US there are greater sanctions available to the land owner/lessee and a greater appreciation of personal space. 
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Can we add an extra code that no GS race training, whether official or not, should be allowed on any blue or green pistes. Speed is the biggest problem and as soon as people accept this then the pistes will be safer
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Chasseur wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| Then, if you are considering the code, it is written on a lot of piste maps, and posters/signs in many ski areas. |
I'm not sure how many resorts you've been to to qualify part of that statement, but having seen your posts on a couple of Mayrhofen threads (so I'm guessing you've been there too), no mention is made of any mountain/skier/boarder code on their main piste map (available from the ski pass offices by the Penken lift) to be honest. I have it here in front of me. |
In that case, they have removed it this year
Last year, they didn't have the full code, but they did have 8 cartoons in the bottom right on the back of the map, most of which are part of the code. The year before, they had 12 of those, covering more of the code( at least in the Hochfugen piste map, which is the only one I have).
Other than that, I currently have here at home maps from Verbier, Soldeu, Schladming, Lake Louise, Sunshine village, Marmot Basin (jasper), several area maps from Superski Dolomiti and the Wildschonau.
The Verbier one, all three Canadian ones and the Wildschonau one all print the (10 point as it was then) code in full. The Dolomites ones just refer out to it, saying "It is YOUR responsibility to follow the 12 point FIS code". The only ones which make no reference at all to it are Soldeu (10 years old) and Schladming (9 years old).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Slightly OT.... I was recently on holiday in India. By the side of the pool at the hotel there was a big list of do's and dont's, all written in English. The regulations were strictly adhered to by all the British and Indian guests but widely flouted by Russian tourists. After one particular incident when a large, middle-aged babushka stripped down to nothing but a thong and swam several lengths of the pool, the hotel manager called her over and pointed to the list.
Her response (in English) "If it's not written in Russian, I won't obey it!"
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You know it makes sense.
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Folllowing my thoughts on this thread, I emailed Compagnie des Alpes on the 24th january, asking them to include the Skier's code on the piste map, and to give a copy of the code to all skiers/boarders purchasing a lift pass. I received the following reply from the Serre Chevalier office today.
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We strive to ensure the safety of customers and staff which includes
Pass'montagne" guide of the ski area, awareness (p. 4) skiers to safety rules (respect for others, control the speed and behavior, choice of direction by that upstream ...)
In addition, we have put in place on the ski area, a clear sign:
Chevrons, slow ralentir
information on some lift towers , recalling 2 important rules: priority skier down and control the speed (on display panels 3m x 1.5m in color)
consideration of these rules through a paragraph "behavioral" in the bylaw concerning safety on the ski slopes
in February, setting up a "tracker prudent" to educate the customer through the children by letting them share the concepts of respect, speed, difficulty, ...
Unfortunately, we can not overcome the lack of civility and respect for the security of individuals
We are truly sorry for what happened to your husband and hope he will recover quickly from these injuries. We are available to you if necessary, in the presence of the Director of Piste Security. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think the ideas here are good, but I think there needs to be more pro-activity from the piste patrol and they have a greater range of sanctions that they are allowed to enforce on skiers seen beeing reckless - e.g. turboing through a 'ski tranquile' area, riding switch into a busy lift zone etc, taking into account the snow conditions, visibility etc... I'd like pisteurs to have the abillity to 'sin bin' a skier by blocking their card for an hour, and repeat offendered then lose 1/2 day or more. Very easy to do with today's handsfree passes, and you just need a couple of pisties monitoring a busy area to have a marked impact on behaviour...
OK so you wont get all reckless skiers, but the risk of sanctions might encourage people to tolerate their behaviour.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If the resorts were serious about the ‘code’ then the answer is simple. - Put a sign on every chairlift pylon. One rule per pylon. It could be in different languages.
The idea is that after a days skiing the vast majority of users would have seen the notices as they ride up the lifts and over a few days all the ‘rules’ would sink in. Some lift could be text only and others could have cartoons or similar.
The problem with rules on piste maps is that often the less experienced skiers/boarders don’t use the map and leave the navigation to the better skiers in the group.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is definitely more attention being paid to piste safety in Serre Chevalier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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feshiebridge, they already do. Your post suggests that it is having no impact at all. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Helen Beaumont, I wish there was in Les Arcs.
I never thought I would say it, but I feel safer OFF PISTE now that it is getting busy than I do on the pistes. It was great to hear they had the speed traps out today. If people want to go fast they should not do it on the Green and Blue runs. Or at leaast respect those that have less skill whether on snowboards or skis. I think when it comes to following the piste rules all types of snow users need to take more care.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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stab, interesting point. I've only just - belatedly would be putting it mildly  - learned how to carve and I did so by using lots of space to practise. And, like everybody said, carving properly made me go quite quickly. Fine on an empty piste, very nice feeling indeed, but as soon as people appeared, I reverted to my tiny twisty turns down the edge of the piste - where I felt a lot safer, both for myself and vis-a-vis other piste users. In other words, I agree with your implication that this carving business may have quite a bit to answer for, when it comes to collisions involving skiers and I guess that, for boarders sharing the piste, the blind spot compounds the problem.
I'm not suggesting, though, that any of this justifies breaking the skier's code.
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Just to clarify (in my case) the entire piste was empty in front of me. As I was carving, I was going very quickly and didn't expect to be overtaken. My turns were exactly the same all the way down the slope (even a snowboarder who hasn't learnt how to pull his pants up yet could see my trajectory / where I was going to be). In my opinion, for a snowboarder to have hit me in this situation she had to be completely out of control or straight-lining it without looking downhill.
Interestingly, a couple of days later I was skiing with a very nervous friend, who was only skiing for her third day. We were coming down the main slope into the village as it was starting to get busy and I had skied off to the front and right over to the side to keep out of the way (rather than providing two slow moving objects to avoid). Of course, avoiding one moving object is a little bit too much for some of the Shaun White wannabees... So, looking up the hill to see how said friend is doing, I see another snowboarder (common theme) bump off her - not a full on crash, but she fell over and he just about kept his balance. Enough so that he could stop and start yelling obsenities at her. I go up to check she is okay (ignoring the lady's front bottom so as not to inflame the situation), he continues going at it hell for leather and becomes more aggressive about her being on the slopes (obviously he was never a beginner), then he starts having a go at me (again, I had tried to ignore him so as not to inflame the situation, as if it needed inflaming). His departing shot, as he got about 50 metres away was so obcene that I shall not mention it here, and for the first time since I was about 14 years old I had the urge to knock someone out. Thankfully for him he had that 50m headstart and was close to the village, so by the time I had got going I had lost him in the crowd. Just as well really, because I wouldn't get a visa with the Canandian equivalent of GBH on my record.
Anyway, had to rant to someone, so found one of the Mountain Safety team and released (whilst still shaking slightly with rage)... The main comment that he had was that almost all of the back bottoms Mountain Safety have to deal with are snowboarders. He gets the occassional skier he has to deal with, but 9 times out of 10, if someone is being exceptionally rude, offensive, aggressive or ignores his (or his team's) requests/commands, it is someone on a tray...
I don't know what it is, everytime I start becoming at least ambivalent towards snowboarders, one pops up to remind me why I am so bigotted about them.
PS. I know that 95% of boarders are fine, great people (such as all the ones I've met through  s), I am good friends with a number of (good) boarders etc etc etc, but I had to get this off my chest.
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| stab wrote: |
| Skier is carving up the whole piste like normal, taking up absolutely every cm of the width of it. |
Very, very rarely would this happen, and it's possible to carve short radius turns taking up as little as the piste as you want.
So us skiers have to be more considerate when skiing behind snowboarders because of their massive blindspot. And now we have to be more considerate when skiing in front of boarders because they are incapable of understanding someone following a large radius curve. Seems to be quite a one-sided relationship between me and my sideways sliding brethren...
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sat 31-01-09 12:44; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, certainly around the PDS/Avoriaz the rules are well publicised and many chairlift pylons have individual ones marked with cartoons. Can't say whether I've noticed elsewhere although I think I have..
snowcrazy, I am much happier (anyway) but certainly from a safety pov off the piste. There were some right idiots out in the Grand Massif a fortnight ago.
stab, if you have blind spot, get mirrors. If you can't see where you're going (sight adaptive skiers excepted obv.) don't go there. That's not even ski code, it's simple common sense.
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| stab wrote: |
lights touch paper and runs.
a snowboarders view on it 
Skier is carving up the whole piste like normal, taking up absolutely every cm of the width of it.
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No, that isn't "normal", although it does happen. But it doesn't matter if they are doing that anyhwo
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Snowboarder is coming straight down, skier disappears into the blind spot, snowboarder doesnt expect anyone to be taking up the whole piste,
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So no anticipation from the snowboarder then.
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clatters into skier as he crosses the piste again. Snowboarder is technically in the wrong even though the boarder did nothing wrong.
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Incorrect. Snowboarder is in the wrong not just "technically", but in every sense.
And he certainly did do something wrong, in not looking out ahead where he was going. It really is quite simple. If you can't see what is iver a brow, then don't go over it so fast you can't stop.
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I base this slander on the fact you were carving on GS skis and the past experience of having it happen to me (only once though, wont happen again  ) |
Glad you learned your lesson.
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