Are the big French ski domains really that bad?

A snowHead

Hi all

I'm considering a trip next month and it's looking more likely due to availability of accomodation that I'll end up in The 3 Valleys (possibly Meribel, Courcheval or La Tania) or somewhere in the Paradiski area. Until now I've skied in Austria and Italy and my only trip to France was to the Grand Massif (Samoens) which I liked.

The ski areas look amazing but I'm trying to mind my money (staying in a catered chalet) and will be alone so trying to get a feel for the place.
I've read lots of reports - plenty of them with negative aspects highlighted. I can't figure out whether people who know no better end up there or whether they are actually great places that get a bit too much stick. Are the queues and costs and "yobbos" that bad or do we only hear of the extremes?

Thanks a million
Rebecca

A snowHead

No, in a word. They are not everyone's cup of tea, but many people like the size and range of the ski domains that they offer. You're unlikely to have bad queues or busy pistes in March. You can spend a fortune in some of the resorts, but you don't have to: I had many holidays staying in Courchevel 1850 on a sensible budget. Don't think I've ever seen 'yobbos' in a ski resort, large or small.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

MissRibena, I haven't been to Paradiski (yet) but there is some absolutely brilliant skiing to be had in the Three Valleys. Yes, expensive it is. But, if you're staying in a catered chalet it's possible to go easy on lunches up the mountain, and stock up on chalet tea instead, having had a good breakfast. Similarly, apres drinks will be expensive, but it's usually possible to get reasonably plastered on the 'free' wine with dinner. The lift pass is eye-wateringly expensive but, IMV, represents good value for the number of lifts which it covers, and the excellent piste maintenance; compared with the average train fare in the UK, it's as cheap as chips! The queues won't be bad if you avoid French school holidays.

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MissRibena, it's got to be done, at least once! snowHead

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks rob.

I think I've somehow gotten an "Ibiza on Ice" impression somewhere along the way - hence the yobbo thing. I know it all sounds very prejudiced but I'm not daft enough to believe it all. Just trying to figure out if I'd like it.

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MissRibena, Catered chalet can be great. Just buy booze and snacks at the local supermarket and be careful where you eat during the day. The 3v is my favourite place. It is fabulous.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Just back from Meribel
Absolutely no Yobbos - ( they cant afford it Lol) Fantatstic Skiing - 650km of piste on the full 3V pass. Pistes and lifts are A1.
Yes it can be expensive if you eat up the mountain, byut if you look about there are some good bars at sensible prices. If you are in a Chalet you can do your drinking with your meal ( free) our Chalet was free bar and we hammered it !!
Its a nice place, not as intimate as some , but if you want the chance to ski a resort where you can ski different runs for days on end go for it. Ps as a rule the further left you go (Val T, St Martin, les menuires ) the cheaper the bars and restaraunts, Meribel and Corchevel are dear and V.dear !

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MissRibena, Since the 3V is such a large ski area, you have an awful lot of choice in terms of where to eat, and at what price. You'll find everything from take-away panini and chips at a slope-side hut in Mottaret, to Michelin starred restaurants - I'm sure you'll find something to suit your budget, but the mountain restaurants in the Couchevel valley are particularly expensive..... and no yobbos, in fact the 3Vs is probably one of the least yobbish places I've ever skied.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

You can't go wrong in La Tania IMHO, cheaper than the bigger areas, lovely and quiet,and easy access to the skiing...

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I have just been to 3V for the first time and loved the area. Excellent runs and lots of them. Vast off-piste reachable by lifts when the snow is good. The lifts system is very good.
I can't think of any negatives except for the prices which are indeed outrageously high, especially for the beverages of any kind, alcoholic or not. (There is a thread in The Piste section concerning that).

MissRibena, 3V 6 days lift pass is 241€... They are a triumph of mile-munching over character, but there's a place for that I guess...

You know it makes sense.

MissRibena, anywhere with that amount of serious skiing on your doorstep could never be called bad, if skiing's what you value most. Some hideous architecture, also some very picturesque parts and beautiful mountains as always too.

In a catered chalet, you have the option of spending very little on the mountain, if you're on a tight budget, it's better than not going at all.

Do it once (especially if you get one of the blinding late deals that have been about this year) and you'll know if it appeals to you, you definitely won't have a 'bad' holiday, even if it's not the best you've had.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Can think of better places, personally, but you should be ok...and it will not be bad. Worth it if you haven't been before.

A snowHead

they are fine. also consider serre chevalier, alpe d' huez which are pretty big areas that you won't exhaust in a week

A snowHead

MissRibena, there's generally nothing wrong any of the big linked ski areas.

My only input is that I normally ski in the Portes du Soleil and went to the 3V for the first time in years before Christmas and found it noticeably more expensive. I've never been, but suspect that Paradiski may offer better value than the 3V.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

MissRibena, You can still come to LDA which is much cheaper and friendlier than the Haute Savoie!! 220kms is piste is more than enough for most people too. Very Happy

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MissRibena, I've been both to Austria and France (3V) in past year, and would make these observations:

Don't be put off Meribel, etc. by the opinions expressed that make it sound like the Benidorm of the Alps. Yes, the 3V is popular, but with good reason - the piste skiing is as good as it gets. Other places may be better for off-piste, and when conditions are poor there may be some that are more snow sure, but the standards of snow making and piste bashing are probably better than anything you'll find in Austria. The 3V lift system is so good that queueing is relatively rare (possibly New Year & Half Term excepted, particularly in Mottaret). This aspect is certainly better than many other resorts.

Meribel has a reputation for being full of badly behaved, boorish Brits. Yes - I've seen this at New Year, but at other times it's not obvious, and no worse than other nationalities in Austria.

Where Austria wins is in greater charm in the villages, and possibly the nightlife as well. In the French resorts, there is a big difference in the feel depending on where you choose to stay. In the 3V, some bits are pretty pleasant (St.Martin, Les Allues, Meribel itself, parts of Courchevel), whereas others are a soulless monument to 1960s architecture where you can spend all week trying to recognise the way back to your apartment (e.g. Les Menuires).

Lastly, not everyone wants the scale of skiing on offer in the big French resorts. If you are a beginner, you are only going to scratch the surface of what's available....but if you want a lot of variety, nowhere else can really match them.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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May be it was me I felt I was in a product line every time I went near the base stations (where Jardan Alpin, Verdons and Chenus meet) of Courchevel 1850. I suppose if there are 50% less piste users there say off the school-break period it would be a fantastic place to ski. The largest number of skiers I have seen come across was in Meribel (try In Feb to go from Les Menuires to Courchevel when lifts are about to close). La Plagne took the second honour. These places could be the reasons why helmets are deemed necessary by some.

I suppose to give a fair view one should try the biggest skiing places in Italy, Switzerland and Austria in the same time of the year and then make the comparison. The mega French resorts, like the 3V, Tignes/Val'D, Paradiski, LDH, Flaine, Avoriaz... have massive purposely built multi-storey apartment blocks which are rare in Italy and virtually non-existent in Switzerland and Austria.

There is nothing wrong of the skiing until too many of them scraping the run to hard pack base.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

MissRibena, no, it's just people being nasty. Like anywhere there are pros and cons depending on personal taste and prejudices. Can be generally more expensive but can still do them cheap if you're careful and wily. Few secrets 'cos lots of people go. Not generally very charming but you can find charming bits and many non-mega places are hardly charming too! Queues, yobs, friendliness, commercialisation, IME no diff from anywhere else. Unparalleled skiing and convenience, and high = generally better late snow.

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MissRibena, I agree with a lot of what is written above. In my experience the major Tarentaise resorts are certainly pricier than pretty much anywhere else in Europe for equivalent accommodation, but you can get reasonable prices on chalet holidays by looking around out of season. High season crowds can be bad particularly if you stick to the major interconnecting pistes and don't explore, but after the first week of March when the French holidays finish this should be less of a problem. Never really found yobbishness a problem but some places just seem to wear more of a smile.

Resort charm is not great but good company can make up for a lot. A personal opinion is that by Alpine standards the 3 Valley scenery(Particularly the Belleville valley) is unremarkable but Paradiski has got some great scenery.
I don't go with my family because the prices when multiplied by four I find a bit steep but I have previously had some great holidays and if you have been to other places you should try them sometime and see what you like, different folk have different tastes and they certainly have an extensive range of skiing to sample.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Julian T,

Try them now during the mid term break and not 3 weeks ago in January in both places.

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You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Julian T,
I'm suprised I have been three times and am off on Saturday for a fourth and the bashing has always been good,
Still I prefer the unbashed so here's hoping. Twisted Evil

A snowHead

Julian T,

Ischgl was the only resort I have seen grooming a piste when it was in use, with 10 piste bashers travelling side by side in a staggered formation. It was quite a sight. On average I rarely run into Austrian piste in poor condition as they don't get the kind of traffic as in France.

rob@rar,

A snowHead

I did less queueing in Meribel this year mid-january, than I did in the previous years in the SkiWelt at the same time of the year..
But as said, if you avoid school holidays , I doubt over crowding is an issue in any resort...

I thought the SkiWelt had more extensive (and very good) snow making facilities, but since it's so low they need it and the 3V still had better coverage...

Prices higher in 3V but we were in a catered chalet and did not spend much on the mountain, so it can be done a smallish budget..

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

One of the things I like about French resorts is that they have runs that they leave unpisted for the moguls to build. You can piste runs much too frequently. Thats one thing that disapoints about the dolomites - no moguls as everything seems to be pisted daily.

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My observation is that the Italian, Swiss and Austrian resorts are quite "safe" because they groom their piste and would not make them excessively steep (possibly because the machine would be able to groom them safely after a certain gradient) They do provide un-groomed piste designated as ski routes which always sign-posted. These resorts cater for their visitors so if the demand is there the facilities would be developed to suit, I would have thought. It is obvious to me that they are not in the market for the two extreme ends of the skiing population.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

saikee, in what way is that different to French resorts?

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Are the prices high in the 3V? Yes, they're pretty exorbitant, but with that you get some of the greatest range of skiing the world has to offer.

That said, I did a season in Meribel and barely scratched the surface of what the 3Vs had to offer. For a week's holiday for a group of intermediate skiers you're unlikely to do the area justice. If money doesn't really matter then fine, otherwise somewhere like le Grand Massif may be a better bet. Cheaper and more than enough variety of pistes to keep you entertained for a week.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

rob@rar,

It is not my experience to turn up in a black run in Switzerland, Italy and Austria and find it not groomed. There have been cases that after a heavy snow fall many piste runs have no time for preparation and open to the public but they do get groomed later.

Some black runs in France are not known to be groomed on a daily basis, like Grand Massif and LDH to name a few. Grands Montets (Chamonix) has the biggest mogul field I have come across but they are clearly marked as ungroomed in the ski map.

Places like St Anton shows ungroomed piste even for the red runs.

The larger resorts frequented by overseas visitors in Austria and Switzerland tend to be dominated by red runs. Their flatter, smaller and beginner-friendly resorts are not targeted by the TO but used by less skillful skiers. In France mega resorts want to attract beginners who could be benefited from concentrating on a smaller and simpler facilities.

If I compare Chamonix, which lies at the border with Italy and Switzerland and could possibly influenced by them, with Tarentaise Valley I can say the smaller facilities of Les Planards, Le Savoy, La Vomaine, Les Chosalets and les Bossons, which are unlinked and tiny areas with only 2 to 4 lifts to serve beginners next to the challenging resorts like Le Fegere, Le Brevent, Le Tour, Grands Montets are absent in the Tarentaise. When I visited Austria and Switzerland facilities their begineer areas are also separated from the large resorts.

I have long been interested in sampling the black runs in each resort and my experience is Swiss, Austrian and Italian black runs are easier because they are well prepared, adequately groomed and have less piste users on them. Somehow I feel the adrenalin junkies would not get much a kick out of skiing a Swiss/Austrian/Italian black.

After all it is free

Les Arc has a number of blacks that are rarely pisted. Tigne has blacks that are down on the piste map as Aux naturale not pisted, but avalance protected, LDA is the same, though Grande Couloir was pisted when we were there last year, which was a bit disapointing as the moguls were building nicely. I quite like hvaing the choice between blacks that are regularly pisted and others that you ski in whatever state they are in when you get there.

saikee, OK, that's interesting. But why does grooming black runs more frequently make them safer? Is it because black runs are generally steeper in France because they have those pistes on terrain which is too steep to get a piste basher on?

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I've noticed that piste bashing difference. In fact my first three holidays were in Austria and on every one of them, there had been bashers out among the skiers. I just thought that was how it was done. I never really understood what a mogul was. Now and again I'd come across bumps and think 'that must be them' but then in the Grand Massif I got to see the real mccoy. I love following a piste basher down a slope but the odd bump is nice too. Sometimes a mogully run home is the last thing my legs need.

Anyway, I'm convinced I think. I've narrowed down my accomodation choice to either Le Praz (Courchevel 1300) and La Tania. I think there isn't all that much between them but maybe I'm missing some key difference? I'm not a huge night-life person but like a couple of (affordable) bars/cafes/shops to walk around. Mostly, I like exploring and to ski back to resort and I realise that neither are really the ideal base for that but is one better than the other?

Thanks a million for all the replies!

Help!!

Are the big French ski domains really that bad?

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