Engelberg Guiding???

A snowHead

Hi, Heading out for a 4 day break in Engelberg early march and hoping some of you folks who know the area can answer a few questions relating to some of the the sublime looking off piste on offer!

1) Is it possible to hire transceivers in town and if so should I be thinking about reserving from the uk beforehand? - I keep putting off actually biting the bullet and buying one that I can be 100% familliar with despite shelling out repeatedly for rental ones Puzzled

2) There are only two of us and would rather not break the bank on a guide just for ourselves. Is there a regular guided group covering certain areas on particular days that we could join? (A friend mentioned that a scheduled guided group covers the Galtiberg twice daily conditions permitting but cant seem to find any trace of info online)

3) A former collegue (not the most reliable person it must be said!) told me that under decent conditions a guide wasn't really necessary for the Laub and Jockstock areas as route finding was relatively straightforward????

4) Is it as good as it looks?

A snowHead

Laub has killed many over the years.....

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

norris, Would you definately recommend a guide for thae Laub then?

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SkiTigger,

No, ..........but I don't know how you approach these things. The safest thing to say would be if in doubt...then hire one.
What the guide should be able to do for you is show you the top of Titlis, the Steinberg - which is crevassed and has a steep ice wall which you need to navigate. In good conditions you should be able to ski it in some places..othertimes you'd need a rope. Then, they would show you the classic routes which are not difficult.

Jockstok can access the bottom half of the Steinberg and you can join the Klein Sulz... this meets up with the Grossen Sulz from the top of Titlis/Steinberg. You can also drop over to the lake from the Jockstok chair, either by a short hike or dropping under the chair and a steep drop down the valley.
Then the Laub which is a steep face at just the right angle, IMV...the entry takes a bit of finding and the top is the most difficult...skiers left is the steepest with a nice gully up against the wall seperating the Laub from Stand pistes. The is the most dangerous tho'..the ski out is to the restro..and he may even give you a lift to the lift station if you buy food or something. The walk is just a tad too far to walk, ideally...but not so bad if you have to...

Other short hikes would be up to the shoulder above Jockstok..which you will see from the chair and the face above the Icelyer. These will be obvious or should be if you are contemplating doing nmost of this on your own.

Then, the final thing...for which you will defo need a guide , is Galtiberg..which is a drop straight down into the valley from the Tiltlis and a bus/taxi back to Engelberg.

Engelberg likes to claim the best lift-served off-piste.....which is a tough call, IMV, .....in good conditions it is a nice intro to off-piste terrain and if you can route find with safety, then ok...

For 4 days you will have trouble squeezing all the above in, IMV....unless you are pretty quick...but take the Galtiberg on whatever day you can as it isn't always available.

The guide office keeps some funny hours, IME..maybe try the Swiss ski school as they may have off-piste days with whoever show up punter-wise...but they will not be able to guide on the glacier itself... but they will able to point you to a man who can....

I can't recall where to get bleeps from, but I am pretty sure you can

Try the search facility for Engelberg... there is alot of good info there...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks JT, some good info there. Will post a trip report and stick some photos up when I get back. Will be sacrificing goats/lambs/small children to the Snow Gods until then in the hope of some fresh white fluffy stuff!

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

According to one of our guides this year "Laub" is an old Swiss word meaning "avalanche" and when you look at the pitch, it does look ideal for avalanches.

Having said that however, he went on to say that because it is skied so much, that to some extent reduces the risk, because regular skiing helps secure each new layer of snow to the underlying layers. I am not trying to recommend that you go ahead and do it without a guide, I am just trying to answer the opening question honestly.

As JT suggests I would certainly avoid the left hand side as you go down. I have been down the middle with friends without a guide, but two of us had previously been down with a guide so we knew where to enter. Be careful if the visibility is variable because it can be difficult to find your way out at the bottom if it is misty. When it is clear the way out is obvious.

I would be very cautious about Jockstok without a guide unless you really know what you are doing. It is not a single large pitch like the Laub, but a series of pitches with different routes. Depending which way you go, the exits can be difficult in poor snow i.e. icy and steep. One of our groups was roped down one of the last bits by their guide last year.

In summary the Laub and Jockstok are frequently skied by people without guides, but I would definitely recommend at least having someone with you that already knows the way the first time you go down.

After all it is free

richjp, When and where are you off to this year...

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

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Hi richjp, Well, LG was on the horizon on the weekend of the 14th...but am going to Annivers now....

That's a shame, could have met up for a beer at Robin's...... Laughing

snow reports

Remo Baltermia 0041 79211 2654 is an Engelberg mountain guide and fine fellow, can supply bleeper/shovel/probe and might be able to fit you in to a group, as he did me for a day in the Laub last week. He explained that the glacier, as it shrinks, now has more skiable routes than it used to. They are pretty obvious, as is the traverse track from chair lift to the entrance to the Laub. $500 fine for skiing in the nature reserve zone (skiers left in Laub) is said to be vigorously enforced and there were no tracks in there, in contrast to the rest of the slope (despite avalanche level 4)

You know it makes sense.

Good info as I'm heading out to Engelberg in a couple of weeks time with a group. I'm a (so far) non off-piste skier and the rest of the group does have experience. Can anyone advise me what the likely costs would be for hiring skis, transceivers, shovel and pole for a week? Tks. Little Angel

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Off to Engelberg in two days and looks like the forcast is for snow (fingers crossed). Will stick up a trip report soon as i get back!

A snowHead

SkiTigger, I go along with most of what JT says. I would recommend against Steinberg from Titlis without a guide though unless you are properly equipped for crevasse rescue and are pretty experienced (more so that you sound). The glaciated section is not long, but there are plenty of crevasses around waiting to gobble you up if you don't know where they are - and it only takes one. Galtiberg in good conditions is probably doable without a guide, but only once you've done it once with someone who knows the way through - there's a huge cliff you do not want to be caught at the top of, it's a long walk back up, or a literally "once in a lifetime" Wink

drop off. It is a big commitment though - probably a good couple of hours minimum for average off-pisters, with no escape routes after the first couple of hundred metres. The Laub and Jochstock to Trubsee I think are pretty much OK to do by yourself (also going from Stand to Trubsee, cutting in just below the Steinberg glacier) - provided you can see to the bottom. Route-finding is then pretty much OK. You can see the restaurant from which you get the taxi back to the lifts pretty much all the way down the lift - it's the big building (pretty much the only building you can see) to the right of the trees as you look straight down the slope. Also, as JT says, from Jochstock to Engstlensee is fine. You can get a bit more out of that route both by hiking for a bit above the lift, as JT says, and also by skiing a bit down below the bottom lift, just past a rocky bluff to your right and then a 10 minute hike back up to the lift. Don't go right down to the edge of the lake though as you have a much longer (say 45 mins) walk for little extra skiing. You could do all this (except Galtiberg) in a day, and then keep on doing it all over again for the rest of your time. Very Happy

Take not of what catala says: pretty much all of the woods are nature (actually hunting) reserves - so no tree skiing other than on marked trails. The signs are pretty obvious, so pay attention to them.

Don't have any info on your questions 1) and 2). Maybe ask around about Galtiberg once you get there?

This thread has a few pics an TR from the weekend Roger C, Matt and I spent there.

Help!!

Engelberg Guiding???

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