The driver of a piste-grooming machine in Slovenia has been charged with causing death by negligence, and is now suspected of "causing general endangerment". This involves the death of a 6-year-old child on 11 January.
I don't know the law in general on this, but (compared to previous decades) snow grooming seems to be an almost-exclusively nocturnal activity, unless a piste is closed for grooming during the day.
Maybe this driver broke some standard codes/laws?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 5-02-09 16:49; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
David Goldsmith, sadly you are a bit out of date - and this time I wish you were not. Daytime grooming does take place - not extensively, but it does. I guess the resort management see the need to bring in fresh snow or do some flattening during the day, and don't want to close a piste. I don't likke it - but then again, there is usually little problem steering clear.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
very sad story. There is absolutely no piste grooming allowed here when skiers are on the slopes - we once had a rather frustrating wait for the chairlift to open, on a gorgeous bluebird day after four solid days of heavy snow, because there was still a piste basher somewhere up on the slope - the lift operator told us they were prohibited from opening the lift when the machine was still on the slope. In 6 seasons I have never seen a moving machine on a piste, and when there was one broken down, which had to be moved by a second one, there were fences around the whole thing and about 10 pisteurs waving skiers away. That's the way I like it!
Really horrible story... I've seen them used in the day in Serbia, just merrily hooning up the middle of the piste at 2 in the afternoon. The piste conditions at the time were pretty bad but not so much that you would want to be dodging a piste basher half way down your run!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
nothing more fun on piste then nailing it behind a piste basher on fresh corduroy..
Not in the same league, but I followed a piste beast down a road at the Pass Thurn end of Kitzbuhel. It pulled in on a corner, and I assumed it was going to do a particular manoeuvre, so went to pass it on one side; instead it reversed, and I dropped off the piste onto a steepish slope to avoid it and rejoined the road just below the beast. It was the last run, in the shade, and the driver probably didn't expect me to be where I was, although I was on a piste, and if I'd stood my ground, he might have seen me and (I assume) stopped. I wasn't too close to the beast, I don't think, but I keep even further away from them now. Not exactly a narrow escape, but an indication that you can't rely on the things to see you.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've seen lots of piste bashers operating during the day, but only ever singly, and always with a flashing light on top and a very audible siren. There are times when they are necessary, and they are used for rescue work as well as bashing.
After all it is free
After all it is free
They're big and loud enough to avoid...its the carabiniere that baz around of skidos at high speed that pose more of a problem in Italy
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richmond wrote:
but an indication that you can't rely on the things to see you.
On the odd occasion I get near one, I presume they haven't seen me. They must have blind spots everywhere on those things.
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pam w, Most of my skiing has been in France, I have seen the beast's working on the side of piste's with no supervision can't remember resort , but it must have been i of these 3v, espace killy or paradski as this is where i've done most of my skiing
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I think I've lost track of the amount of times I've skied behind a piste basher in France.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
In La Plagne snow grooming machinery is not allowed on the piste unless in an emergency, over the last 4 years I have only once come across a machine being moved on piste through skiers, it was accompanied by 2 piste patollers on skis and a skidoo both in front and behind who between them were operating a 'rolling road block' around the machine.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
i have seen them on the piste in Soll, Austria, towards the end of the day. Pretty intimidating.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
IN St Anton a couple of seasons ago someone who was a little jager'red up after leaving the Moserwirt (after 8pm) tried to ski down collapsed or fell (more likely) and was just lying between some bumps.
A Piste Machine came down the hill and rolled straight over him. Needless to say he ended up finally carved dead human meat. The Piste Machine driver needed psychological counselling & as far I know has never driven a Piste machine since
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Close-ish up of a basher at work at night http://youtube.com/v/qX4_twhONbQ it was busily chomping up a ridge in the slope, the tracks were actually 'wheelspinning' trying to push the cutter along
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
There are times when they are necessary
I disagree. If the pistes get badly cut up, then people should just deal with it and ski a bit slower. Stop the brutal grooming, as somebody said.
Quote:
I dropped off the piste onto a steepish slope to avoid it and rejoined the road just below the beast.
that needs a cool head, and considerable skill. What would a panicked beginner do? Wouldn't it be better just to make sure people were off the pistes before they start? We get chased down the pistes last thing at night, before they get the machines out and the mountain restaurants have prominent notices about getting out smartly when the lifts close. Being allowed to stay up the mountain, get pissed and then stagger down falling under piste bashers is just insane.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Boredsurfing wrote:
In La Plagne snow grooming machinery is not allowed on the piste unless in an emergency, over the last 4 years I have only once come across a machine being moved on piste through skiers, it was accompanied by 2 piste patollers on skis and a skidoo both in front and behind who between them were operating a 'rolling road block' around the machine.
Not seen one move during the day in 6 weeks in Les Arcs, but did see them moving during the day on a weeks holiday in St. Anton and not at 8pm post moose...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
the death is very sad for the family concerned, but these piste bullies (rightly called so) are terrifying to anyone within seeing or hearing distance. how did the death occur? and was the child accompanied at the time? i'm not about to pay to find out. does anyone know more details?
I encountered a basher on a tight section of a red into Saalbach. Didn't leave much space for those on the piste. This was mid afternoon but it had snowed a fair bit. Never seen them any where else during the day time.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I came across four of them mid-morning in Peisey Vallandry a couple of weeks ago. It had snowed a lot overnight & they were heading down Myrtilles towards Vallandry - quite fast, but very noisily with flashing lights & sirens. The light was bad that morning & they caused a fair bit of excitement looming out of the fog
Pretty difficult to not see one of those! A tragic accident highlighted by this thread, but someone who can't avoid something of that size shouldn't be on the piste unattended, they should be in ski school. Similarly those to young to understand the risks shouldn't be skiing unintended either.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
They are not allowed to work during piste opening times in Austria, but in Soll they have some sort of exemption.
After all it is free
After all it is free
clive5 wrote:
They are not allowed to work during piste opening times in Austria, but in Soll they have some sort of exemption.
If that's the case then nobody told them in Lech. The week before Christmas, there were several occasions when the bashers were grooming the main piste back to town, singly and in groups of 2 or 3.
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clive5 wrote:
They are not allowed to work during piste opening times in Austria, but in Soll they have some sort of exemption.
And, apparently, in Kitzbuhel (it may not have been 'working', just going form A to B, but the effect is he same. I'm inclined to agree with pam w; they shouldn't share pistes with skiers. Of course they're easy enough to see (except in very poor vis), but if you and/or it do something unexpected, a beginner or a kid could panic or just be unable to take evasive action.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 6-02-09 12:39; edited 1 time in total
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clive5 wrote:
They are not allowed to work during piste opening times in Austria, but in Soll they have some sort of exemption.
I have a picture of 6 piste bashers grooming the main home run in Flachau at 4 pm. That said it is a very wide and has good lines of site.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Presumably piste-grooming teams have to be paid premium rates to work nights.
This may, or may not, be a factor.
The novelty factor of 'the loneliness of the long-distance groomer' must wear off pretty quickly. I imagine he listens to very loud music.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
When we were in Ischgl a couple of years ago 17 piste bashers were grooming one of the main blue runs in mid afternoon, working in formation in would have been hard not to notice them.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
clive5 wrote:
They are not allowed to work during piste opening times in Austria, but in Soll they have some sort of exemption.
Who said so? After storms in St Anton there out in force.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I skied past a working piste basher on my first ever ski trip (Jan '97) in Verbier, but since then, i think I have only ever seen them working during the day a couple of times.
The last one being in Neiderau when they were only just managing to get the pistes open on the Friday after having been closed through lack of snow all week up to then.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
David Goldsmith wrote:
Presumably piste-grooming teams have to be paid premium rates to work nights.
This may, or may not, be a factor.
The novelty factor of 'the loneliness of the long-distance groomer' must wear off pretty quickly. I imagine he listens to very loud music.
I wouldn't have thought it was a factor, since it is certainly standard procedure to groom overnight.
In fact the drivers may have to be paid extra if asked to work during the day as well.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I fell over while being followed by one (in tignes) - pisteurs around it. Most embarassing thing was I couldn't get my binding sorted - forgot to reset in panic at sight of basher. Basher was towing a building, second basher behind tidying. Piste definitely wasn't shut...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
genepi wrote:
I came across four of them mid-morning in Peisey Vallandry a couple of weeks ago. It had snowed a lot overnight & they were heading down Myrtilles towards Vallandry - quite fast, but very noisily with flashing lights & sirens. The light was bad that morning & they caused a fair bit of excitement looming out of the fog
I was there the same day. They had been grooming the top runs in vallandry after some avalanche work near the top of grizzly.
They came down past the bottom of derby. Scared the hell out of people spilling off foret.
Tend to see at least one sorting the flat runs like foret in the morning after a dump.
tux
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think the reason that on occasion you may see piste bashers as above in the posts by genepi and tuxpoo, is that the morning after heavy snow, the pisteurs carry out PDA's (pratiquer declenchement d'avalanche) which is basically setting off avalanches by the methods already discussed in other threads, grenades, gas etc, and after that the bashers need to bash the pistes where in some instances the artificial avalanches may have crossed the pistes. The lifts up onto the mountains are always closed while the actual PDA's are taking place, hence why sometimes first thing in the morning after heavy snow you may get out of resort but then find yourself waiting for lifts to open further up the mountain. Then after the PDA you have bashers stuck up the mountains and short of keeping all the runs closed until the bashers are 'home' the only way to get them back is to run them 'carefully' down the open pistes.
Before anybody says anything I am not saying this is the only reason you will see bashers on the pistes but certainly one of the reasons mid morning sightings may occur.
And yes, the Grizzly lift was closed still, so I guess that was why.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I seen quite a few moving around in Val Thorens during the day the other week, including up Gentiane a few times (very mellow and usually busy blue). They don't worry me as much as snowmobiles though - I have visions of snowmobile drivers losing control and flying into me for some reason whenever they pass
I saw one (piste basher that is) on the piste in La Plagne Dec 07 - somewhere around the Roche Mio area on that blue down towards Verdons - we were flying on a undulating bit but one was coming fast towards hidden by said undulations - no warnings ahead of the piste basher and a pretty hairy but lucky escape and luckily the hip flask was only 1/2 empty by then
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Been to La Plagne a few times and not only have there been piste bashers on the slopes during the day, but also smaller maintenance wagons that have white boxes on the back and are very difficult to see on cloudy days.
Also, this year a casual snowmobile rider came up the piste from plagne centre smiling his cheesy grin off. V.dangerous.
I certainly appreciate the need for mountain rescue to use snowmobiles but in doing so they risk another horrible accident if they go too fast and are unseen, but time is sometimes critical for survival I guess.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I've just come back from Mayrhofen and everyday we saw, or skied behind piste bashers every day.
On a trip to Zell am Ziller we actually saw six in a row! Although it was just before lunch so maybe they were trying to avoid the rush...
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i love the things.. especially towards the end of the day.. there you are expecting aload of bumps on the way back to the pub then voila.. a nice smooth strip to speed down. when im a russian ogliarch im going to buy one just to sort out the pistes ahead of me..
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Boredsurfing wrote:
In La Plagne snow grooming machinery is not allowed on the piste unless in an emergency, over the last 4 years I have only once come across a machine being moved on piste through skiers, it was accompanied by 2 piste patollers on skis and a skidoo both in front and behind who between them were operating a 'rolling road block' around the machine.
Sorry, but I have seen them there. Twice in one week - both times coming up the piste towards me, unaccompanied on open pistes. One of them really took me by surprise, could hear it, but difficult to work out where the noise was coming from... until it suddently appeared over the lip right in front of me. It was going some too
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
piste bashers every day.
