 Poster: A snowHead
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what's the experts opinion on putting carving plates or risers on "all mountain" skis such as the scott punisher, salomon lord etc - meaning skis with around 87-92mm underfoot
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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potrzebie, concept seems very odd. A riser plate is usually put on a narrow waisted ski to prevent the boot grounding out on hard carved turns and lifting the ski off its edge. There's no chance of boot out on a fat ski so what's the point?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Can't understand it myself either. Whilst they do allow for greater edge angles I'd have said that the problem with skis around the 90mm mark underfoot is the edge-to-edge performance, for which the risers/plates would have minimal affect upon.
Just buy a decent pair of skis...  (NB. In context... I haven't got any skis wider than 73mm underfoot, and that's the only pair above 68mm underfoot).
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What would you want to achieve by sticking a plate on them?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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just wondered if it might help edge-to-edge - if you look at the physics it should, but would that adversely affect the off piste performance?
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potrzebie, have to say I can't see much point in doing it, like the others said above. You don't buy a ski that fat for on piste performance, so I can't see there's any need for quick edge to edge speed.
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well if you only want to be taking one set of skis on holiday you might want a ski that is fairly good edge-to-edge as well as good off-piste. Mightn't you? Just wondered what the experts thought... 
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| potrzebie wrote: |
| well if you only want to be taking one set of skis on holiday you might want a ski that is fairly good edge-to-edge as well as good off-piste. |
In that case go for something a bit narrower which is slightly better on piste, even if it sacrifices a bit of off-piste float. I ski a lot on 76mm underfoot and that seems like a good compromise ski for a mix of on and off piste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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potrzebie, apologies for my poor manners, I should have welcomed you to snowHeads
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potrzebie, on some of the really stiff All Mountain Fats (not Powder Fats, mind!) I like up to about 10-12 mm lift.
Often the binding will have a bit built in unless you really take care to avoid it, and demo and rental bindings often have a lot more, so the feel of a rental fat will often be different than the one you buy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
on some of the really stiff All Mountain Fats (not Powder Fats, mind!) I like up to about 10-12 mm lift.
Often the binding will have a bit built in unless you really take care to avoid it, and demo and rental bindings often have a lot more, so the feel of a rental fat will often be different than the one you buy.
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yes, i guess the rental rail bindings have a bit more lift.. so you think 10mm on something like the Lord is ok off-piste, but can help edge-to-edge on-piste?
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potrzebie, I don't think it's going to help edge-to-edge transitions, but I do think it can help pressure that edge once you get there.
BTW, by All Mountain Fats I mean 88-97mm waist, conventional sidecut, conventional camber, GS or soft GS stiffness, NOT funshapes, rockers, reverse sidecuts or SL skis with extra fat long noses.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sun 1-02-09 18:11; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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any downside off-piste?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What is the stand height on your bindings? I have Dukes fitted on my fat skis (IIRC a stand height of about 23mm) and they feel a bit clumsy to me. For my fat skis I'd rather be a bit closer to the edge when skiing firm snow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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potrzebie, smaller sweet spot both side2side and front to back, so your boot really needs to be 'dialed in'.
rob@rar, was that directed to me?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
What is the stand height on your bindings? I have Dukes fitted on my fat skis (IIRC a stand height of about 23mm) and they feel a bit clumsy to me.
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don't know because i haven't bought them yet hence the question. Been skiing metron M2 with neox recently, stand height about 30mm
(did post this reply earlier but it seems to have disappeared, so if it turns up twice you'll know why)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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potrzebie, why would the physics make them quicker edge to edge (or indeed, the engineering)? Something I (a physicist) have never understood...
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more leverage? so applies more edge for the same movement? but then i'm not a physicist. but bow to the superioir knowledge & experience of other snowheads. Just interested in some opinions. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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potrzebie, notice that doesn't make them *quicker* edge2edge, indeed it slows them down since the knee arc is longer.
It does make them quicker to be discombobulated by random hard snow chunks, because those forces come from the other side of the lever.
Which M2trons?
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am i getting speed mixed up with pressure (?) pressure on an existing edge rather than an increase in edge? Or does more pressure = more edge?
Anyway, don't really want to get bogged down in that, just interested in the pros & cons of a riser on an "all mountain" ski - about 3-1 against at the moment.
just says metron M2 on the ski, 76 underfoot, bought them second hand a few years ago
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| potrzebie wrote: |
| "all mountain" ski - about 3-1 against at the moment. |
I wouldn't regard that score as accurate, AM Fat ski definitions and lift definitions and useage patterns differ so much that the respondents could have been on about completely different things.
For example, if you were to include anyone who has 'Railflex' bindings on their head i.M. 88s, the score would be about 3 against, several thousand for, that binding has so much lift in it.
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just says metron M2 on the ski, 76 underfoot, bought them second hand a few years ago |
Ah, no X, XI, IX stealthily printed in countershade; it could be a B5?
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no - nothing at all - just says metron m2 but it isn't the same graphics as my friends B5s that he bought about 3 years ago - his say B5 on them - i always assumed these were a slightly cheaper version of the B5 - they are a bit softer (but just as heavy!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, good, that clears that up - the number of times I've heard "makes them quicker edge to edge" is innumerable and I've always thought, "what crap".
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I personally like a small amount of lift on any ski. All my bindings are a variety of Look / Rossi Pivot's that come with a small lifter...only an extra 7mm or so. The added leverage is a good thing on piste and let's be honest 7mm isn't going to effect the powder performance unless you really can't ski powder to start with ! I'd never put a complete "plate" on this type of ski though. That would be a way over the top.
Alex
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