 Poster: A snowHead
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Totally had enough of sickening pain in my feet when skiing! 
Just been to a French ski shop and they measured my feet at the widest point with some caliper things. Both feet measure 90mm. The shop guy, who allegedly has 30 years of boot fitting experience, took one look at my boots (Atomic M80 W) and said that they weren't suitable for me because they are designed for feet up to 85mm wide. They are going to try and stretch them for me but were doubtful it would work..
Bought these boots (plus custom-made insoles) from Ellis Brigham about a year ago and they've never felt comfortable due to almost unbearable pain (like cramp) around the base of my toes and spreading through my foot. Been back to EB several times only to be told that there's nothing wrong with them. Can no longer tolerate:
- Crap skiing
- Pain elsewhere (knees, thighs etc.)
- Stopping every 2 minutes
- Skiing without socks
Have I been sold the wrong boots? Should I ask for a refund?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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have EB actually tried to undertake any remedial action on your boots, if so how soon after you bought them...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good luck with asking for a refund. You say you've never been happy with them, yet you hung on to them for a year, and have used them. Even though EB has said that there's nothing wrong with them you've been experiencing pain while wearing them and have continued to do so with "unbearable pain". It's clear that there's something wrong with them but you still accepted them.
If you try to claim against EB do it through head office, not the branch.
This sort of problem shouldn't be regarded as typical of EB and S&R type stores. I had a fitting at S&R in Bristol. The guy spent an hour with me, and gave me a choice of two boots before I'd looked at the range. Both seemed fine in the shop so, having used the brand before, I went with a pair of Salomon boots. While mooching around the house with them on I started to get pins & needles. Two weeks later I went back and swapped them for a pair from Technica - no fuss or problems at all in the store. I saw the same guy, explained the problem and he suggested I give the others a try. Now I don't understand what people mean when they claim that their boots are uncomfortable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've got these boots and my feet are a lot wider than 85mm so i would be a bit wary of the french shop.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can only heap praise on S&R - I bought new boots about 9 or 10 years ago, in the sale, in the summer .... from a shop in Guildford.. seemed a good buy at the time and I didn't know a lot better.
I skied in them for a few weeks the following winter not feeling altogether comfortable, and then took them into S&R at Port Solent - they were absolutely brilliant and spent ages - even though I told them I hadn't bought them there - doing all sorts of modifications, I would bring them away for a week, take them back, try something else and eventually happy bunny endinh up with foot beds.
Lasted me well for years - last year I took them in as my husband was buying new boots and I was sure I really needed some more! They took them apart, told me that everything was fine, could not believe how light I must be on my feet as nothing needed changing. Winter of 07/08 we had a few days in Les Gets in the middle of December, suddenly bad right ankle pressure, I went into S&R on return to UK before going to Vermont for a week, they fiddled about on a very busy Saturday morning and some bit of foam inserted and ever since then no problems.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
You say you've never been happy with them, yet you hung on to them for a year, and have used them
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Yes, because I was told that the linings needed to pack down as I wore them. I haven't just decided after a year that they don't fit, I've been back several times but I don't wear them very often so it's taken a while to give the linings a chance to pack down. Wearing them around the house didn't highlight the problem because they are only really painful when I ski.
EB have offered no remedial action as they say that the fit is correct. I've tried speaking to a different assistant but no joy.
I know it's not just my feet because the boots I wore at Bootcamp in Tignes were very comfortable (ironically also Atomic but Hawks, not the same as mine).
Think I might as well have flushed £200 down the pan - a second-hand pair from Ebay could have been more comfortable.
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marmalade, Possibly... sell them on and look to get a new pair and this time get the fit right before you wear them in earnest..or as right as poss...
I doubt anyone is entirely confident of the fit until they do a day's hard work in them... and then you have a better idea. Maybe, expect to have to get a few tweaks on them...but I haven't had to do this.
For a performance fit, they will be a tight fit out of the shop...almost amounting to a squeeze all over the foot..but no problem points. This will allow the liners to pack down consistantly so all you need to do is regulate the fit throughout the day, once or twice, to just close the shell up.
Pressure points are bad and may have to be tweaked....
IMO/IME....... I am not a fitter...................but I know a man who can
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marmalade, sounds like there are issues other than width. My Mars bar says it has to do with how your foot is supported in the boot. Take them to someone who knows (and it sounds to me like both EB and the French shop are out).
Cheap experiment: take one custom insole out and compare tingly sensation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT,
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almost amounting to a squeeze all over the foot
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Mine are a very tight squeeze without even being fastened. Obviously I'd love to just buy a new pair but don't have the money. Not sure who I could trust to fit my boots again - I followed all the right advice and ended up £200 out of pocket!
comprex, I have tried taking a custom insole out and the relief was immense. Today I've skied without the custom insoles which relieved the cramp but obviously left my feet unsupported.
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| marmalade wrote: |
| but obviously left my feet unsupported. |
and was there a detrimental effect on your skiing? Could you edge cleanly without effort? Could you edge to either side? Did the heel slide around? Did your forefoot flop about or bash into the sides of the boot? Did your toes get smushed?
If the answer to most of those is -no-, I'd leave them out for now. For a few days in fact, in case you have swelling or bruising that needs to go away.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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marmalade, Clearly I'm not skiing at a high level, but for the record and if its any use to you, I've never had footbeds in my boots. I've got a high instep which might lead you to suppose that I ought to be more comfortable with a set, but I can ski all day in my boots with feet that don't hurt.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, answer to most of those is 'no' so maybe my holiday is not ruined!
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marmalade, cheer up and,
If, in a day or so you need more support, pop into a pharmacists' and get one of the ultra-cheap ultra-soft self-moulding insoles they sell for walking shoes.
It won't hold your heel, but it might stop the forefoot from sliding about and it probably won't hurt as much as the others.
Then go have proper ones done when you can get to someone you can communicate with, how's that for a plan?
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You know it makes sense.
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marmalade, I'm not a bootfitter, but I have been on the "receiving end" of a bootfitter three times in recent years...
Two questions - did EB heat mold the liners and how many days have you skied on them?
All the good bootfitter's I've been to have stressed that boot fitting is rarely a single shot process - particularly if the boots are well fitting. I got some boots from SMALLZOOKEEPER a few years ago and they were agony for 4 days, after which they were fine. I've just (yesterday) bought some new boots and been told to expect to go back to the boot fitter 2-3 times before they're right.
Even from my limited knowledge I understand that it's not correct to just measure your feet and say "that 90mm foot won't fit in a 85mm shell and they're the wrong boots". The only way of someone knowing is to have a look at your bare foot in the shell.
I have 99mm wide feet that are (and I say this advisedly) going to live quite happily in 92mm shells. With some work.
I'd be really surprised if a good bootfitter couldn't find you 5mm in the a shell of 85mm.
The one thing I've learnt about bootfitters is that two seldom agree. Take the work of one bootfitter to another and they'll seldom not find fault.
EB, though, have no ability (or right) to say that there's nothing wrong with them. They're not the poor person with their feet in them. They have behaved poorly. You should tell them so.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FlyingStantoni, Hmm so you have some Lange RL12s? We missed you? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, no, some Salomon Courses courtesy of the large one. (I think they're 92mm?)
I'm in Cham tomorrow - are you around the shop if I stop by to say hello?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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marmalade, sounds like both places are playing each off against the other....there is no atomic boot only suitable for feet up to 85mm wide, try ther following
1 stand in the empty shell how much space behind your heels with toes brushing the front
2 find the middle of the shell move the front of your foot side to side , how much space either sid [or in total] ?
3 what size is the boot?
sounds to me like there is another biomechanical issue going on
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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marmalade, which ski shop did you go to in Serre Che ? There is an excellent boot fitter at Brechu Sports in the Pre-Long shopping centre in Villeneuve that Gavin from Eurekaski recommended for JulesB . He is very happy with his boots he got from there last winter.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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marmalade, I don't know which bootfitter you've seen, but I would only trust Bruno at Ski Complice in Chantemerle with my boots/feet. He is the best in the valley (only 50m from the telecabin).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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marmalade, I bought boots about a year and a half ago from Ellis Brigham. EB heat moulded them to my feet when I bought them. I started to wear them about the house (as advised) and it was agony - the left foot in particular. I went back and EB fitted footbeds (still very sore and uncomfortable). I took them back yet again and EB shell stretched the left boot (as it was mainly the left foot that was giving me the problem). I was told that all this was normal and that the liners have to "pack down". All during this time and when I was wearing them in the house, I would wear them with "thicker" ski socks.
I started to wear thinner socks and my boots did not give me any bother (one or two wee niggly bits and I did notice the last time I skied that they even felt a bit loose!). I haven't worn thick socks like I did when I first bought the boots so, when I do, this will ascertain whether it was the thickness of the socks that were the problem in the first place or not or maybe the liners have "packed down" and that I need to wear "thicker" ski socks.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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marmalade, I recently bought the same boots after my old Heads gave up the ghost, the last is 102mm width so the french boot fitter is talking rubbish. I've only skied 3 days on them so far, with conformable footbeds, and whilst not absolutely perfect they're not far off. I have problems with my feet both in ski boots and trainers (same problem), I get burning balls (of feet  ) and painful numb 2nd and 3rd toes. I've been to a podiatrist and know that it's because of the biomechanics of my feet, I don't think it'll ever be completely eradicated but it's getting there. Perhaps it's worth going to a podiatrist?
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skimum, a heel lift in your boots, a well made insert and a little stretching for your claf muscles will reduce the problem still further if it has not yet been done...also have the cuff canting checked it can [if wrongly set] force all the weight onto the outside edge of the foot and make things worse
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CEM, thanks for that, I've had the built-in heel lift cranked up as far as it will go and was told that if that didn't work then they'd put heel lifts in. I think part of my problem is that I have very inflexible ankles, worse on the right, which is by far the most problematic foot. I've been making sure to do calf stretches when excercising and am trying to improve flexibility as I'm currently training for the Moonwalk (26 mile walk). Things gradually seem to be getting better, thankfully, as there was a point where I thought I'd have to pull out of the walk
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimum, the built in heel lift is 5mm i would be looking to add another 3-6mm dependant on how tight things are
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marmalade, just one other question. Is your big toe bigger or smaller than the toe beside it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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marmalade, I woud say that if in the past you have had ski boots (hired or bought) that are more comfortable then the pair you bought from EB, then there is not much wrong with your feet.
EB are right in saying that there is nothing wrong with the boots, but you seem to have been sold the wrong size boot. If you have had no joy with the shop trying to sort out the problems ask for a refund, as the boots are "not fit for purpose" ie you can`t use them for skiing.
Don`t be fobbed off if the shop says you have had them over 12 months, so no refund.
ask to see the manager or duty manager at EB and explain. If no joy. Send letter to head office and explain. if no joy. go and see your local council's trading standards officer. Usually a phone call from them to the shop can resolve things.
Good luck 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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bargainbill, sorry that is utter tosh, the sale of goods act does not cover things in that way, besides you would have to prove that they were not fit for purpose, then explain why you "accepted" the goods
it still sounds like there is a biomechanical issue going on, although the OP has not responded with details yet...hiring boots without problems is not a sign that these are not right, it is generally i sign that the hire boots were too big
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bargainbill, the shop can refuse a refund after just 10 seconds, so there's absolutely nothing to stop them refusing a refund after 12 months. Unless, of course, the product is faulty and that fault can be attributed to a fault caused by manufacturing or design.
As for being sold the wrong size boot, the OP may have gained/lost weight, bruised their feet, fiddled with the boots after purchase, and all that.
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You know it makes sense.
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| lynseyf wrote: |
| I've got these boots and my feet are a lot wider than 85mm so i would be a bit wary of the french shop. |
I agree, I have a wide forefoot and a narrow heel, the M boots have a 102mm last and were the only boots in EB last season that were right for me.
I have the M100s and they are the most comfortable boots I have ever worn, I dont even need to loosen them at lunchtime.
Get another opinion before you spend more money
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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robboj, as soon as he took the insoles out and got relief we knew for certain that the width wasn't the problem.
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Poster: A snowHead
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OK, so I've got the boots back from stretching (sorry can't remember the name of the shop). They are more comfortable now but still can't wear them with the insoles. I also had a lesson today and I think CEM, was right:
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it still sounds like there is a biomechanical issue going on
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I suffer from a arthritis and it seems that, as a result, I've been skiing in the back seat to compensate for knee/back issues. I think this has pushed my toes forward in the boot. I'm going to work on correcting this.
Hopefully I can avoid forking out for another pair of new boots, although I will go back to EB about the insoles when we get home. Thanks for all the advice and opinions. Keep your fingers crossed that I'll be more comfy now.
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