 Poster: A snowHead
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What is a piste from a legal/insurance/rescue point of view? Coming from a background of skiing in North America and New Zealand where everything inside the ski area boundary is considered the responsibility of the area management for safety, rescue etc. the European situation is obviously quite different. As a piste is generally seen to be a marked machine groomed run is this the legal definition?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Marked and on the piste map
May not be groomed though but most are
You may find this becomes a long thread
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sarge McSarge, There's no physical boundary of a piste other than the limits of the groomed snow area, so that would constitute the piste in terms of a technical definition. I'm not sure that you're correct in implying that European ski areas have no legal responsibility beyond the piste. That would imply that they're not obliged to mark or fence-off cliffs, crevasses etc. I would think that they're legally obliged to anticipate skiers straying from the piste and encountering significant dangers in obvious areas of the terrain.
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David Goldsmith, I did not mean to imply that there is no responsibility at all beyond the piste but there is definitely a different management philosophy. In the US it is driven by the liability issue and the line in the snow is at the area boundary fence while in Europe it does not appear to be as defined.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Don't expect to find a 'legal' definition of piste. God forbid it, how would the insurance company wriggle out of a claim if there was a widely accepted, set in stone definition of piste and off-piste.
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We have a "pact" in our boys group when skiing. If anyone should injure themselves off-piste, the others agree to drag the injured party back onto the piste before calling for help - for insurance purposes. Not sure if this is the best way to treat an injured person - but may save money in the long run 
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I'd have thought the piste markers wuold be the boundary? BUt call me old fashioned...
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I'm with DM on this.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stevo_the_saddler, not only fraud if you do, but potentially quite dangerous. For the two injuries I have come across off-piste, the victims would not have thanked you for the dragging. There are cases I have seen where the edge marking was anything but clear, with the stick positioning seeming a bit random. Mainly on black pistes.
I have seen far more injuries on-piste than off. I wonder if high search and rescue costs when there is an accident [edit]off -piste[/edit] is affecting our premiums.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 31-01-09 23:34; edited 1 time in total
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achilles, Its only fraud if you get caught 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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scrubyjoe, it's fraud if you do it.
It's prison if you get caught. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| There's no physical boundary of a piste |
| under a new name wrote: |
| I'd have thought the piste markers wuold be the boundary? BUt call me old fashioned... |
Old fashioned. And I completely agree.
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The piste markers on either side of the piste are the boundry in Europe once you are beyond them it is off piste.
I am struggling with an insurance co here to get a definition of what they define as off piste in relation to North America!! Swines
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, You see the smiley thing at the end of my comment... thats a clue as to the tone I was using. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| achilles wrote: |
stevo_the_saddler, not only fraud if you do, but potentially quite dangerous. For the two injuries I have come across off-piste, the victims would not have thanked you for the dragging. There are cases I have seen where the edge marking was anything but clear, with the stick positioning seeming a bit random. Mainly on black pistes.
I have seen far more injuries on-piste than off. I wonder if high search and rescue costs when there is an accident [edit]off -piste[/edit] is affecting our premiums. |
What fraud? The guy is injured and you call up someone to come and get him. The fact that you have moved him a few meters into a position where he can be more easily picked up by mountain resue can hardly be considered fraud!
Whether moving him is a good idea or not is of course debatable
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ordhan,I thought most insurance companies cover you for skiing within the ski area boundary - so long as you dont go out of bounds covered 
Something I always check before purchase, if skiing North America
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| ........ The fact that you have moved him a few meters into a position where he can be more easily picked up by mountain resue can hardly be considered fraud!....... |
Oh, it can. In spades. The skier will be claiming for an event (skiing off -piste) that the insurer would either have declined or charged more for. Pretending that the claim is for an event that the insurer is prepared to cover (skiing on piste) is fraud.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Why would he be caliming for an off piste event? He's claiming for a pickup that was made on piste, which is what he paid for. How he got to the piste is entirely his own business!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wouldn't it be easier to move the piste markers than the injured skier?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, great idea
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Did cross my mind yesterday in Meribel, when three of us got day tickets, we could have got one carte neige between us, since our names were not on the receipt ...
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| Why would he be caliming for an off piste event? He's claiming for a pickup that was made on piste, which is what he paid for. How he got to the piste is entirely his own business! |
he would be claiming for an off-piste event because he was injured while skiing ioff-piste.
Where he was picked up is irrelevant.
If your policy does not cover you for skiing off-piste, that is not only because of a potential higher recovery cost, but because of a higher chance of having an accident in the first place.
If you are skiing off-piste and have an accident, then if you claim you were not skiing off piste, that is fraudulent.
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A couple of weeks ago, I was going quite fast and accidentally strayed into a cut up area off piste. Managed to smash through it (obviously losing a bit of speed) and re-entered the piste which handily curved around to meet my trajectory. The trouble was, the piste had fallen away and I didn't spot the 18" change in level. Landed on the tips of my skis and crashed out of them onto the hard piste. Took most of the impact on my shoulder, which still aches a bit (didn't stop me skiing, thankfully). Anyway, on-piste or off-piste for insurance purposes? (Just an academic question, I'm covered in the unlikely event of needing treatment by the SCGB policy.)
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