 Poster: A snowHead
|
I have hired a car to drive from Stuttgart to Austria in a few weeks, and as I may do more driving to the alps like this I was going to buy some snow chains instead of hiring them.
The car will be VW Golf sized, and I was looking at buying these:
http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/techna.htm
Has anybody used this company? Any other recommendations?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
markP, bear in mind that chains which fit the tyres/wheels on one car may not fit on another, so if you'e planning to hire cars you may be better to hire chains too. Mind you, I don't imagine that finding a Golf for hire in Stuttgart will be too challenging.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I was assuming (maybe incorrectly) that they would fit a couple of wheel sizes either side.
Eg: 195 60 16 and 185 60 16 etc. Are they really designed to fit one tyre size exactly?
I've already hired the car, but I won't know exactly what it is until I arrive. Just that it is a golf or equivalent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Yes chains fit a limited range of tyres - the real issue is consistency - while a Golf might have one size tyres, an equivalent model, say an Astra will have different and even within model range there may be variations in tyre size due to wheels specced. Loose chains/cables are a PITA if you are driving any real distance and have a propensity to wrap round the axle.
For hire cars if you have a set of chains by all means take them along but anything else is just pot luck, buy in a supermarket when you're there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Supermarket - in France. What about elsewhere, fatbob? IIRC the Germans don't really have supermarkets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Chains usually fit on different car/wheel makes, but you need to look into it carefully and also consider suspension on the car.
Last year my mate had the right chains for his wheels but his 'bling' lowered suspension stopped the chains from fitting - idiot!
To be safe I'd try and hire (if that's possible) as they're an absolute nightmare to fit on anyway - especially when you're out in the snow!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
markP, they do fit a number of specific sizes, but it's not quite as simple as 1-2 sizes +/- from the main one.
I went in to the ADAC store the other day... they had 1 set on display and it listed maybe about 10 or so compatible sizes, of which many were similar but not the same as mine (205/55R16), including some from 175/xx up to 215/xx. They will punch the wheel size and car make/model/year into the computer to find compatible set.
Incidentally, mine are ADAC branded, but look 99% identical to the ones you posted, and are about as low profile as you can get. Another top brand will not certify any chains for 205/55R16, despite it rapidly becoming a popular wheel size on Golf/Leon/A3/A4/etc...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| markP wrote: |
| Are they really designed to fit one tyre size exactly? |
No, but they won't fit everything, even within the same 'class' of car (or even within the same model of car).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I drove to Ischgl last weekend from Fridricshafen. Took the chains from here as per usual, as sick of paying to hire them. This is about the fifth time I have taken them, but the winter tyres on the hire car done the business anyway. The ones I have are similar to those in the link and I have put them on a Ford Focus and a Fiat Brava no problem before. I think mine go from 14" to 17". Think about it... That is all the hire companies have anyway a generic set that fit 16" ish wheels mainly. Don't forget your vignette m8... My mates drove from Zurich and both cars got done on Friday night. One had no vignette and the other bought one but was the wrong one the police said and fined them 120 Euros per car on the spot... BRUTAL!!! Plus they checked the cars for winter tyres as welll.. Another fine there no doubt!!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
They may well go from 14" to 17". They will not cover a skinny 14" and a fat 17" however; what they will cover is a fat 14" and a skinny 17".
IMO when it comes to the safety of your passengers and you, being stingy on chains is bonkers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Hmm, Thanks for the tips. Are winter tyres a legal requirement in Austria then?
I thought just the chains were.
I can feel a change to my hire agreement coming on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Right... here we go again.... maybe a sticky would be good??
Snowchains are NOT a legal requirement in Austria.
Winter tyres ARE a legal requirement in Austria.
Some roads have a blue sign with a picture of snowchains. It is mandatory to carry snowchains with you if you wish to use these roads but you don't have to put the chains on.
You very rarely need chains. Normally only on very steep uncleared roads. Most main roads are cleared. It has been snowing for over 24 hours out here now and I know I won't need my snow chains to get about to the pistes.
Check out http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/europe/austria
"Road Travel in Winter (1 November-15 April)
New legislation, which comes into force on 1 January 2008, demands that all vehicles with up to 3.5 tonnes laden weight use winter tyres on all wheels in wintry road conditions (snow, slush, ice). Snow chains on the driving wheels will only be allowed as an alternative where the road is fully covered by snow and/or ice and the road surface will not be damaged by the chains. Chains or summer tyres will not be allowed for slush conditions. Heavy fines or temporary loss of vehicle may be imposed on those who ignore this legislation."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| markP wrote: |
Hmm, Thanks for the tips. Are winter tyres a legal requirement in Austria then?
I thought just the chains were.
I can feel a change to my hire agreement coming on! |
Winter tyres are required in both Austria and Germany - if the roads are wintry, i.e. snow or ice. Chains are not a requirement, except on specified stretches of road (the requirement may also be temporary, depending on road conditions, e.g. I heard that the road through Mittenwald needed chains a week or two back but probably only for a short time).
The chance of you actually needing chains is relatively low, though it does depend on what resort you're going to. If you are going over some pass, e.g. to Lech/Zürs, there would be a higher chance of requiring chains.
One possibility you might want to look at is buying chains from the ADAC (German equivalent of the AA), with the option of selling them back if you don't use them (with only a €3 for ADAC members/€5 for non-members per day service charge). This link (in German) explains the scheme: http://www.adac.de/ADAC_vor_Ort/suedbayern/shop_suedbayern/schneeketten/default.asp?ComponentID=167394&SourcePageID=167377#10. If you click on the "Übersicht der ADAC-Schneeketten-Stationen" link, you'll come to a page which lists all the places where you can buy the chains (with a map). The problem with this idea is that you have to waste time finding the place to get the chains and then take them back. Probably it is easier to hire the chains from the car hire company, if you want them, though that is more expensive.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 28-01-09 20:03; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
espri, that is a great idea! Do the OAMTC do the same thing??... your German is much better than mine!! have a look!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
they're an absolute nightmare to fit on anyway
|
it just needs a bit of practice - BEFORE you get to be kneeling by the side of the road in a blizzard.
| Quote: |
You very rarely need chains. Normally only on very steep uncleared roads.
|
I don't really agree with that. The roads into this area are not particularly steep or difficult and it is not uncommon for the police to be stopping vehicles without chains - insisting they are fitted and, if they don't have chains, they are sent back down the valley to buy some.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| flangesax wrote: |
| Do the OAMTC do the same thing?? |
The ÖAMTC (Austrian equivalent of the AA) does have a similar buy/rent scheme but it seems to be for ÖAMTC members only as far as I can tell (€1,50 per day service charge for members).
Please note that in my post about the ADAC scheme I originally had the price wrong. Like the Austrian variation, the price for renting chains which you return unused is per day (and more for non-members). I have corrected the post now.
Unless you know you will be driving right past the ADAC/ÖAMTC chain depot, on reflection, the scheme all seems a bit too time-consuming to me. In snowy areas many garages stock chains for sale, though then there is the risk that the size you need isn't in stock (and there may well be a rush on when it snows).
| flangesax wrote: |
| Some roads have a blue sign with a picture of snowchains. It is mandatory to carry snowchains with you if you wish to use these roads but you don't have to put the chains on. |
Here's a picture of the sign:
My understanding of its meaning is, however:
If the sign is showing, you must fit chains (even on 4x4s). Sometimes, though, there may be extra information, e.g. only winter tyres required or 4x4s excepted. The sign should only be shown when chains are actually necessary but on some passes that may be considered to be all winter (and in other places the signs aren't always "disabled" immediately, even if the conditions have improved).
As far as I know, it is not actually mandatory to carry snowchains (when the sign isn't currently shown), though if you're driving on a road where the sign may be temporarily active, then there is always the risk that you might end up stuck somewhere if there is snowfall. So, practically, you might want to have chains with you just to be on the safe side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Thanks for the advice. I probably should have checked my facts rather than relying on my hazy memory...
On reflection I will just pay for the winter package!
I've saved a small fortune at half-term by flying into Stuttgart and hiring a car anyway.
Cheers all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Well in France that sign doesn't mean you must actually fit chains, it just means that it is a road on which chains are likely to be necessary (or compulsory) sometimes. The signs show all the time - they don't go round removing them all when the snow's been cleared and bringing them back next time it's snowy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Winter tyres are NOT a requirement, they are only required if conditions are bad. The drive to ischgl for Friedrichshafen is mostly motorway, if the sun is shining you don't need winter tyres, if it snows you might be in trouble.
I live in Germany, I bought winter tyres, my mate decided not too and only drives in good weather..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Set of chains weights 4 kgs and can go in your hand luggage or your luggage in the hold. And before someone says you can't take them in your hand luggage, you can as I went thru Stansted last weekend and asked the security officer in charge and they are OK for hand luggage. So depends how many of you are going and if you have room in your luggage..... and are you going to get use out of them in the future.....
Can't see what the fuss is about chains, as winter tyres are the main thing you need in Germany and into Austria. Thery are the business when it comes to driving in cold winter conditions. Also my mates last weekend were stopped at a roadblock in Austria, as I said above, and no check for chains was done. Just the standard "Let's rob from the tourists" police road block for the vignette.
Most hire cars have standard size wheels of 15 or 16 inch wheels, unless you hire the smallest car there, so the hire compaines use a standard set of chains. I go 4 or 5 times per year on long weekend trips. On one trip they had run of of chains at Hertz. So I just stopped and bought a set. Thing is if you have a set and take them and they don't fit then buy another. Never happened to us in two years of booking Ford Focus size car. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Well in France that sign doesn't mean you must actually fit chains, it just means that it is a road on which chains are likely to be necessary (or compulsory) sometimes. The signs show all the time - they don't go round removing them all when the snow's been cleared and bringing them back next time it's snowy. |
I think that also in France the sign does mean that chains are technically/legally required. See, e.g. the French government site for Sécurité routière http://www1.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/signaux/detail.asp?sSignal=2141. There it certainly says "obligatory on at least two powered wheels" (if my French is correct).
However, as you say, in practice the signs frequently aren't changed to match the conditions. It's the same in Germany and Austria, though here the signs often have a hinge in the middle so that they can be/should be closed or opened to match the road conditions. However, this doesn't always happen, so you have to use a bit of common sense and just hope the police won't be nasty if you drive past the sign without chains.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Here's a picture of the sign:
My understanding of its meaning is, however:
If the sign is showing, you must fit chains (even on 4x4s).
|
We have been stopped regularly before the pass over to Zurs/Lech and wished 'have fun' by the police as they stop everyone else and make them put chains on. I think the chains sign is only enforced if the police are there and if you are in a two wheel drive vehicle (ours are both 4WD due to where we live in the mountains).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Powderhound wrote: |
| I think the chains sign is only enforced if the police are there and if you are in a two wheel drive vehicle. |
I think that this is probably the practical situation, and fits in with pam_w's experiences in France too. I'm not so sure about the 4WD bit, though; I suspect that there might be conditions where the police would insist on chains on 4WD vehicles too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Trumpton wrote: |
Also my mates last weekend were stopped at a roadblock in Austria, as I said above, and no check for chains was done. Just the standard "Let's rob from the tourists" police road block for the vignette.
|
1. What's the Austrian vignette required for.
2. Do you consider it to be polite to go abroad and break the laws? What would you think if Johnny Foreigner came here and broke our laws - failing to pay the congestion charge, for instance?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
espri, I have never been asked to show them, despite living in a ski resort up a mountain... Mind you, being a swiss resident we do, of course, always have snow tyres fitted. We don't own chains for our cars and therefore don't carry them...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Powderhound wrote: |
| We don't own chains for our cars and therefore don't carry them... |
I do have chains for my car (also 4WD) and carry them around with me in winter. But, like you, I have never been asked for them or used them. Mind you, the Kitzbühel region is pretty low, so there aren't any extreme roads (though I haven't needed chains on my two trips to France or elsewhere either).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Austrian vignette is for motorway driving.
We have winter tyres on our Freelander (4WD) and haven't needed to use chains since we had that car and the winter tyres. Previous car was a Subaru Outback, 4WD, but there were occasions when we had to use the chains. No car we have had of course has ever needed the same size of chains.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| James the Last wrote: |
| 1.What's the Austrian vignette required for. |
Almost all motorway driving in Austria; there are some minor exceptions. There is apparently an informal but recognised exception for the stretch of the A12 from the German border to Kufstein, where one turns off for Kitzbuhel, and back. Vignettes are available from German motorway services near the border; the signs for services which sell them have a double headed eagle badge attached to them. They cost next to nothing for 10 days or so.
| Quote: |
| 2. Do you consider it to be polite to go abroad and break the laws? |
Not especially, but it happens. I don't feel the need to go out of my way to be polite (or rude, for that matter) to anyone.
| Quote: |
| What would you think if Johnny Foreigner came here and broke our laws - failing to pay the congestion charge, for instance? |
Very little.
Vignettes are a good wheeze. You can have an annual one which costs relatively little per week (it could be thrown in with the RF licence) and a short term one for visitors, two weeks or a month, at an extortionate weekly rate. That's what the Swiss do (or did).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
A couple of weekends ago Hertz wouldn't let us hire a car to drive into Austria without winter tyres.
Make sure you have reserved a car with them before you travel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I'm not sure if I can make this any clearer.... but I will try....
YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TYRES IN AUSTRIA IN THE WINTER......NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITIONS OR TEMPERATURE.....YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TRYES (ALTHOUGH MUD AND SNOW ARE ALSO ACCEPTED)
and....
YOU DO NOT NEED TO CARRY SNOW CHAINS BY LAW IN AUSTRIA UNLESS A SNOW CHAIN IS DEPICTED BY A BLUE SIGN.... YOU DO NOT NEED TO FIT THEM BUT MAY NEED THEM
ahhh.... thats better...!!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 25-09-09 12:36; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| flangesax wrote: |
YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TYRES IN AUSTRIA IN THE WINTER......NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITIONS OR TEMPERATURE.....YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TRYES (ALTHOUGH MUD AND SNOW ARE ALSO ACCEPTED)
|
This is not the legal requirement, although I agree that practically it comes to that. The ÖAMTC (Austrian equivalent of AA) web site describes the situation here (in German): http://www.oeamtc.at/index.php?type=article&id=1127991&menu_active=0194. I presume it is correct and the ÖAMTC's interpretation of the law. Here my translation of the first part of the page:
ÖAMTC:
What equipment is required in winter
For cars winter tyres or chains, for other vehicles there are special regulations
Since January 2008 a requirement for winter equipment is in force for drivers on Austrian roads.
For cars, cars with light or heavy trailers and light commercial vehicles (i.e. up to 3.5t and type B driving licence) a weather-dependent winter equipment requirement is in force from 1st November till 15th April of the following year: drivers of cars and light commercial vehicles have the following two options when wintry conditions exist:
1) Winter tyres
When there is snow on the road, slush or ice, winter tyres must be mounted on all wheels. Drivers should follow the weather forecast regularly. A drop in temperature, for example, can lead to a wet road freezing over and then the requirement for winter tyres applies.
Identification of recognised winter tyres
Tyres which display the identification marks 'M+S', 'M.S.' or 'M & S' and which have at least 4mm, or 5mm for tyres with diagonal tread pattern, profile showing are recognised as winter tyres in the sense of the law. This applies also for so-called All-Year, All-Weather and Spiked tyres.
2) Summer tyres with snowchains
Snowchains can be mounted on at least two driven wheels as an alternative to winter tyres. This is, however, only allowed when the road is completely or almost completely covered with snow or ice. The chains should be mounted on wheels of driven axles. Anyone who has summer tyres on their car should at least have snowchains in the boot for longer journeys.
ÖAMTC end
The page goes on to describe what can happen, e.g. with respect to insurance liability, if a car which has not respected the requirements for winter equipment is involved in an accident or hinders other road traffic.
I haven't found any more current description than this on the Internet. My interpretation is that there is no mandatory requirement for winter tyres at all times, only when the road conditions are such that they are needed. However, practically, anyone driving to a ski resort would have to expect that it sometimes snows there and thus either be prepared with winter tyres (or the rather more restrictive snowchains - a second best, I would say) or be prepared to leave the car standing, which may not be possible on holiday. If you're lucky, you might get away without winter tyres but you would be taking a risk, possibly a considerable one, financial or to life and limb. The standard fine for driving without winter equipment in Austria when it is required is €35 but can be up to €5000, if others are endangered.
The situation in Germany is the similar, I believe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
You may be hiring a Golf equivalent, however there is a chance that if they are short of cars, that you are give then next category up which mean that in all probability the chains wont fit. yes it does happen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
There are roads round here - one right down in the Arly Valley where chains are scarcely ever required, where a "chains" sign is permanently displayed. It might be there in summer too - must remember to check. It means (and on sometimes actually says underneath) that chains are needed "when the roads are snowy". It can't possibly mean, even in theory, that they should be actually fitted on the wheels; that would be absurd.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| It can't possibly mean, even in theory, that they should be actually fitted on the wheels; that would be absurd. |
That, however, is how the sign is defined, absurd though it may be in practice 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
espri,
Ok... getting a bit pedantic now.... Still... I will try again....
YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TYRES IN AUSTRIA IN THE WINTER......NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITIONS OR TEMPERATURE.....YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TYRES (ALTHOUGH MUD AND SNOW ARE ALSO ACCEPTED)
It IS a legal requirement (unless you attach a special snowplough in front of your car to ensure your wheels are not travelling on slush, snow or ice and that the plough also has an added blowtorch to remove all traces of ice).
Alternatively you could travel with summer tyres on and have a spare set of winter wheels in the boot. So you can quickly pop over to the side of the road and change them when you see a little bit of slush, snow or ice. Oh... and don't forget to change them at about 5pm every day if you want to drive about.
I think that any argument trying to point out that not all of Austria is slush, snow and ice from 1st Nov - 15th April is also pretty irrelevent as this is Snowheads and we can but assume that markP is heading to Ski resort (which is normally within an area of slush, snow or ice.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Jagerbull wrote: |
A couple of weekends ago Hertz wouldn't let us hire a car to drive into Austria without winter tyres.
Make sure you have reserved a car with them before you travel. |
This was probably because of the insurance implications. European car insurers have been know not to pay out for the full claim if it is determined that the accident wouldn't of happened had the vehicle been fitted with winter tyres.
You may have to abandon your car because your summer tyres aren't suitable for the winter conditions. It's likely that the snowplough will spray it with snow every hour or so. When you you come back to it the next day it may be burried and while you dig it passing cars will continue to spray you with the dirty slush from the road. Each to his own but I'd rather be skiing than digging.  There are people here in Austria who live on a main road and leave their vehicle for days sometimes weeks as it's just too much hassle to dig it out and then try and find another parking space later in the day (the one they dug out is quickly taken up).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Trumpton wrote: |
| Can't see what the fuss is about chains, as winter tyres are the main thing you need in Germany and into Austria. Thery are the business when it comes to driving in cold winter conditions. Also my mates last weekend were stopped at a roadblock in Austria, as I said above, and no check for chains was done. Just the standard "Let's rob from the tourists" police road block for the vignette. |
They have camera systems on the motorways that check valid vignette, thats why you have to place it in a certain position on your windscreen. When they record a number of cars without or valid vignette they start the road blocks. There pretty hot on this during the holiday periods.
You can buy vignette's in Gas stations on the autobahn Germany even here in Holland so there no need to queue up at the border.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
espri, Sorry I wasn't being very clear - I did mean that you were being the pedantic one!!
The OP is about driving to a ski area in Austria.... Ice sets in almost every night above about 1000m.... plus even if the roads are clear you still run the risk of being snowed on at any time (especially when parked up).
Therefore it is a legal requirement for markP to have winter tyres due to the conditions or potential conditions.
If the police can be bothered to check then users of summer tyres will be fined anywhere that the Police can see snow, slush or ice.
Snow chains on summer tyres.... as you quoted they are accepted but only on snow and ice covered roads, so what about the slush??... you can get nicked for driving on summer tyres on it and you can get nicked for driving with snowchains on it too!
So, please stop confusing and over complicating the whole issue for those that are interested....(I have edited a bit)....
YOU MUST HAVE WINTER TYRES IN AUSTRIA FROM 1st NOVEMBER TO THE 15th APRIL IF YOU ARE GOING TO A SKI RESORT
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Schönes Wochenende!