 Poster: A snowHead
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An avalanche researcher from Salt Lake City has devised a checklist to help skiers make more rational decisions before skiing dangerous snow and pitches.
Ian McCammon, from SnowPit Technologies, argues that skiers often "shake their heads" at others heading for peril, but "overlook the danger when they're risking their own lives".
McCammon has dubbed his checklist 'ALP TRUTH', and it covers several identifiable characteristics of dangerous snow situations.
This report from Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Any comments on this article?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Did a little search on SnowPit Technologies and Ian McCammon and this came up (from a paper he wrote in 2000):
http://www.snowpit.com/articles/training.pdf
| Quote: |
On January 12, 1993, three skiers left the well-marked
boundary of Vail Ski Area headed for the backcountry.
The group had been warned of the dangerous avalanche
conditions by the Vail Ski Patrol, but these skiers had just
completed a two-day avalanche course and were confi -
dent that they could find safe skiing. Fresh slides were
visible in the area, and a follow-up investigation indicated
that the skiers probably experienced collapsing of the
snowpack as they hiked. Despite obvious indications of
dangerously unstable snow, the group chose to ski a
steep, wind-loaded gully. The avalanche they triggered
caught two of the skiers, burying and killing one of them.
Accidents like this one raise uneasy questions about the
influence of avalanche education among recreationists.
Does it really make them safer, or does it create overcon -
fidence that lures them into more dangerous terrain? |
Interesting question.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, indeed. The human factor is huge. Very few women get buried. And not just because of lower numbers of women skiing off piste.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This was in fact posted last year on another forum but still worth looking at it again. Stay safe out there!!
In a nutshell, there are 7 clues that should make one think twice about skiing a given slope (ALP TRUTH):
Avalanches (within the last 48 hrs)
Loading (by snow, rain, wind, in the last 48 hrs)
Path (is the slope an obvious slide path?)
Terrain Trap (are their terrain features that increase risk: gullies, cliff bands, tight trees, etc)
Rating (Considerable or higher rating by avalanche forecasters)
Unstable snow (as evidenced by collapsing, cracking, whomphing, etc).
THaw Instability (recent warming of the snow d/t sun, rain, warm temps).
McCammon found that in the vast majority human triggered avalanches, at least 3-4 of these clues were present but were ignored by the victim or the victim's party.
also
Well actually FACETS is a HUMAN FACTOR checklist... looks like you were thinking of ALPTRUTH which is above
F -familiarity
A- acceptance (what is the dynamic WITHIN your group?)
C- Competition/ complacence
E- Ego or Expertise
T- Toll, aka wanna get fresh tracks
S- social proof (what is dynamic between your group and other groups?) Are there tracks in it?
That's yet another useful tool from Ian McCammon- can be found in his Heuristics articles at www.snowpit.com
Well worth reading up on all this right now, loads of fresh snow and NOT very stable. Today Level 4/5 in most areas where it has just snowed.
Original forum link. http://telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=588116
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| Very few women get buried. |
Interesting. Take a transceiver, balloon, shovel, probe, sub-snow breathing device, high-visibility approved avalanche cord.
Take a woman too ... is that your message?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It is interesting that just now whilst listening to Henri (from avalanche talks early this year in the UK for those that do not know him, a local Val d'Isere avalanche awareness person) on the local radio he has been mentioning many of the same things whilst trying to encourage the English speaking people out here to take extra care right now as conditions are very unstable.
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| David Goldfish wrote: |
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| Very few women get buried. |
Interesting. Take a transceiver, balloon, shovel, probe, sub-snow breathing device, high-visibility approved avalanche cord.
Take a woman too ... is that your message? |
The whole point is to keep out of an avalanche in the first place. So all the stuff for finding a body once an avalanche has hit is irrelevant to your own first post here.
Having a woman in the party, who is encouraged to influence decision on route choice does seem to be a good idea.
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| achilles wrote: |
The whole point is to keep out of an avalanche in the first place. So all the stuff for finding a body once an avalanche has hit is irrelevant to your own first post here. |
Perfectly robust and reasonable argument. Ski with a woman and save money on the accessories [not quite your argument, I hasten to add!]
I can't recall skiing with a more skilled off-piste female skier than Caroline Stuart-Taylor, chief exec of the SCGB, it has to be said.
Ironic, because the Chamonix guide who was leading our group on the slopes above Argentiere was the most uncompromising, exhausting and worrying guide I've ever experienced!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I was out this morning, three in the group, we had 7/7 in alptruth and 4/5 avalanche risk. One lad wanted to go down an off piste gulley, I said no.
We then decided to go down as the conditions were pants anyway. We skied down to the start of the home run that was pasted with, "piste closed" and avalanche warning signs, 50cm of fresh and no tracks, again I said no. He had a major sulk, I felt guilty but stuck to my guns.
The third member of the party was my daughter (an excellent skier and experienced in the mountains) , I suspect if it had been another gung ho individual I might have been swayed...
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I like the idea of having a rule that anyone in a group can say "no" to a given run or line, and everyone should accept that, with no arguments.
They can choose not to ski with you again if they want later.
jbob, sounds like you need to ditch that bloke. There will always be another day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jbob, had you skied wit the incredible sulk before? will you again- suggest not
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FAQ
