 Poster: A snowHead
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I've got to the point where I can pretty much handle big high speed dynamic turns in reasonably deep snow but that's pretty much as far as it goes.
When it comes to more confined areas and trees (particularly trees) and shallower slope angles where going mach 10 isn't appropriate or possible I don't have much of an answer. I don't fall over much but have to come to halt and hit the reset button as speed keeps building up and can't generate those really pretty neat powder 8 type turns.
I want to be able to do shorter rhythmic turns and have the option of keeping the speed down.
Before I developed a fixation about it, I assumed the big fast stuff would be difficult and the the slower more rhythmic turns would be the first to be mastered, couldn't have been more wrong
Any advice greatly appreciated
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rich, Ignore him. When you do short swings in powder, keep turning until you're going across or even slightly up the slope to keep your speed down - it's a lot easier than zooming around in wide arcs, catching a tip and face-planting in deep snow. 
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rich, light bulb.. !!! for me in tight trees, I now just let them run and wiggle just to edge a bit..this turns just enough to navigate trees and tight paths. If the space is bigger then a big swooshing turn works anyway.
For powder S's...I let the tips head downhill and just pick up the turn when the tips rise...sink and rise and turn. It is easier on big skis.
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I assumed the big fast stuff would be difficult and the the slower more rhythmic turns would be the first to be mastered, couldn't have been more wrong
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I did this the other way round as the skis weren't that big and you have to get them bouncing and up out of the snow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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you still need a bit of speed for the shorter turns. who knows without seeing you ski but maybe you need to let the skis run a bit more and work on your anticipation/reactions to spot your line through the trees earlier?
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rich, like JT says - you kneed! to be more dynamic in the knees. If you just stand still and let the skis run you will do big carves like on piste. Short turns are all about your upper body going down the fall line and your legs/feet zipping about under. As Arno sais, it still needs a bit of speed.
(all with a pinch of salt cos i am relatively new to this too)
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rich, Practise short radius turns on the piste, and in the bumps. Make sure you stay over the middle of the ski. Aim to ski at a constant speed - don't just keep accelerating.
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rich, if your speed is increasing then I would say that has to be because you're not taking your skis far enough across the slope - i.e. (that horrible phrase) finishing your turns - and the second half of the turn is not long enough to control speed. If this is when you're trying to do powder 'S'ses, how's your upper/lower body separation? My guess is that it's not brilliant, as in trying to keep your upper body facing down the fallline you could be restricting the amount of turn your lower body is being allowed to make. Or maybe you are trying to face down the slope too much in medium radius turns? When you do get the skis going further around the turn you'll feel quite a push back from them on your legs, so you then need quite a large range of movement to control those forces. You may also be too far on your heels,which will cause the skis to run away from you - your weight does have to be slightly further back in soft deep snow than on a hard piste, but unless it's virtually water don't overdo it. Really feel the pressure of the snow on the base of the ski and make sure it's evenly spread fore and aft.
So generally go for more dynamic body movements, both longitudinal and rotational, and continually feed back from skis to brain. IIRC from other posts, you're a reasonable level skier, so you may well have come across exercises like this before. Exercises to improve that separation: poles out in front of you and use them as a picture frame around a constant bit of the scenery while short turns down the slope. Try and take the skis as far around the turn as possible, and absorb in the legs to keep an even pressure around the turn. Overdo them to start with, and then you can calm things down once the basic control is there. But once you get back in the powder, please don't wave your arms around in the flamboyant poncy way we saw one guy in Hintertux a month ago - he obviously thought he was excellent, but it was hilarious.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rich, Inside Leg Extension.
You will sometimes see this as 'bicycling' or 'pedaling' through powder but on-piste ILE is really all it is. Combine that with a good retraction and you can go anywhere in trees, break rhythm, carom off boulders and big bumps. Add a nice jump turn and you can play pachinko in chutes.
My essential point here is that you have to abandon the thought of a priori rhythm. Do -one- right then do the next one right.
Rhythm in trees is not part of technique but part of good path sequencing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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big tuns mean a lot of speed....the speed moltipli every force you develop with your movement..........so in big tuns it is enough a little movement(little force produced) for turn........when the turs are short you have no speed and that is your difficult........so you have to moove more your legs............
check also wich ski you have cause if it is a carving one......in powder are very bad......but with speed they float better and become easier........
there are 2 different tecnique for short turns in powder......but it is to complicated write ......better invest few euros and take a lessons.....with an instructor or a off piste guide........because we have also to see you....and understand your particolar case......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for all the input, been doing a bit of thinking about how I handle transitions. I've had quite a lot of lessons off piste at one time or another but don't remember much specific advice about transitions (or more likely I wasn't paying attention) and I think that's where the problem lies. The turns I'm confident with in deep snow I tend to initiate by inclining towards the centre of the new turn which then becomes more angulation as the turn builds, I think this is the root of my problem.
ILE is something I've never actively emphasised, I does sound like its the direction I should be thinking.
Just been reading FastMan's old ILE thread, a lot of food for thought there. May take a trip to a dry slope to get my head round things.
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a tip that I've often found has helped people trying to get short swings in powder is.... be patient
THis was even more crucial on skinny skis but helps on fatter skis too.
People have a tendency to try to start the next turn before they have finished the first one, as a result he skis haven't built a platform so you don't float easily out of the turn and you haven't controlled your speed. You don't need to actively finish your turns, just give the skis longer to drift round across the fall-line before you start the next turn. Be patient. It feels slighty uncomfortable at first but then it just clicks.
Cheers,
J
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