 Poster: A snowHead
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I am in the market for a transceiver and have only ever used the BCA tracker. I found it very easy to use, but I was wondering what peoples thoughts are on this selection, ie pros and cons.
BCA tracker,
Ortovox Patroller, or
Ortovox D3
I have shortlisted these three for the use of the digital distance readout, as I found that really to use on the tracker. (and their inclusion in the BASI deal)
Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I use the tracker and find it fine. Others have found other makes more to their liking, the Barryvox pulse seems popular. Some models are easy to use and some are more effective at searching but require a higher level of experience/training, if you have used a particular and are competent with it it might be worth sticking with that model.
The most important issue is having any sort of transceiver with you when you need it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, thanks for that link. The main reason for going for one of those on the list was price. After an expensive summer of ski buying and various other items the pulse is a little out of my reach 
jbob,
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if you have used a particular and are competent with it it might be worth sticking with that model.
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Thats what I was thinking but was wondering if anyone has dealt with any of the other two.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i have a nice and simple Ortovox F1 which is very old technology now (and almost comes with a health warning on some online stores!) but I find it easy to use. when i bought it, the choice was basically between the F1 and Trackers. I tried the tracker and found it very easy for short range single burials, but rubbish for multiple burials and it's range was shockingly low.
i am half thinking of upgrading but I wouldn't bother except to go for a Pulse or the S1. The others don't seem to be a significant enough improvement on the F1 to make it worthwhile.
Of course, i'll probably end up wearing the F1 still and lending the S1 to friends who don't have their own... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I tried the tracker and found it very easy for short range single burials, but rubbish for multiple burials and it's range was shockingly low
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exactly the same with me...
freestyleandy, if you are doing your EMS you will be doing lots of multi burials. On my MS course we all tried each others models. If you are looking at the ortovox deal from noble custom.. I personally didnt like the S1 flip phone one as it was complicated and takes a lot of practice to get good with, but after a week of working with it the guy who had one got real fast.
for a mid price model I really liked the M2, simple long range and reasonable for multi burials, didnt see a D3 or patroller. Dont bother with ear phones or carrying case, I have little off piste experience so i would seek other comments but this is one mans opinion.
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I like the F1 because of the raw unprocessed data which with earphones you can use to tune in to secondary signals. However i would not recommend it to a new user because of the ease of use factor of modern digital beacons. I've found the tracker very easy to use and intuitive but had major nightmares with the X1 in final search. I suspect the pulse etc are even better.
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What are peoples thoughts on the Pieps DSP? I'm considering getting one as it's what I'm familiar with and seemed pretty straightforward to use. Anyone else used one, how does it compare to others?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I use the Barryvox Tracker, find it great.
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Technically freestyleandy, you can have any old toot of a transceiver - you want your friends to have one of the good ones 
Being less cynical...
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| The main reason for going for one of those on the list was price. After an expensive summer of ski buying and various other items the pulse is a little out of my reach |
I understand what you're saying, but your transceiver (and the rest of your off-piste safety gear) isn't an area to penny pinch on.
I have a Pulse and it was frankly painfully more expensive than the alternative. But it really is so much easier to use. And if you're using it for real (and panicing, etc) then you really do want something that is easy to use.
On the BASI Mountain Safety Module I did last April everyone else had Trackers and I have a Pulse. I was sigificantly quicker than anyone else on the course finding a single burial. I was the only person out of our group (except, of course, the guide) that you'd really want looking for you on a multiple burial.
In particular, the Pulse's final search mode really is so much better than the Tracker's - other people in the group would get within 3-4m of the buried pack and then spend 4-5 minutes arsing around looking for the buried pack. Once I was in final search mode I was probing within 30 seconds.
I was surprised on the course how much the little things count and (conversely) how much the bad things get magnified when you're searching on a 35 degree slope. Like most people, I've done most of my practice searching on the flat. On a slope, though, blindly following a flux line and ending up 5-10m below the burial is really brutal - especially in deep snow.
Personally I would (and do) carry headphones. I've got plenty of old iPod (and such) ones laying around and would like to have the choice. (In fact, I carry two pairs - one for me and one for someone else.)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have owned for approx 10 years a couple of Pieps 457's and have practiced quite a lot with them. However on a course last year we had the usual multiple burial scenario I was unable to get a good signal on just one of the packs, I seemed to only be able to pin it down to a 3m dia circle, which is too much to probe or dig out. We had a Pulse and S1 on test, the pulse pinned the pack down to 2m on the read out, we dug checking with the pulse we were getting closer down to a depth of 2m and found it. The guy with the S1 was still reading the manual!!!
I skied with 5 mountain guides last season and all were wearing pulses.
I shall be buying a pulse soon, anybody seen a good deal on them?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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JT, if you are a SCGB member Lockwoods have a 15% safety equipment discount. I will probably get a Pulse next year (and give sprog 1 my barryvox 3000)
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You know it makes sense.
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Another vote for the Pulse. I've had one for a couple of seasons and it always seems to out-perform different models whenever I've done search exercises with other people.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think I'll wait a while to see if the S1 is as good as promised...
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Poster: A snowHead
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I am now actively lookin to buy (plus al. shovel&probes). THe barryvox pulse seems to be at the top of my list. the S1 looks like it has too many slightly confusing icons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dear Snowhead,
Where do you live? Perhaps we could hook you up with one of our technical reps and they can answer any questions you have. There's no substitute for getting these beacons in your hand. I wouldn't get too carried away with your concerns about receive range and multiple burials; these issues are often overemphasized as a way for manufacturers to sell you their beacons  To find out what the real issues are in real avalanche incidents, check out "Digging Deeper" at http://www.backcountryaccess.com/research
Cheers,
BE
(edge@backcountryaccess.com)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bedgerly, thanks for that input, and welcome to snowHeads.
Hope you stick around to give us some more advise.
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Welcome to  s bedgerly and thanks for the post. I must say that I've always found the stuff on your site to be really useful - particularly the stuff on shovelling.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bedgerly, you could do with losing the full stop at the end of your link though
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Mosha Marc, please be advised that your advice has been acted upon
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bedgerly, i tend to agree with most of the conclusions in your research papers and wholeheartedly agree about group management and shovelling times being of paramount importance but to say that the poor range of BCA trackers is overemphasised by your competitors doesn't do your impartiality any favours. I have a tracker and found the lack of range (oftern less than 1/2 of other models) and the often confusing fluctuations in readings when near the target very worrisome during simulations...
From the Tracker manual when doing pinpoint searches "Ignore sudden fluctuations in distance and direction, often followed by no distance reading and/or SE in the indicator." That really isn't good enough for a piece of safety equipment when i am trying to locate a victim(s). Your transceiver although simple to operate in principle was frustratingly difficult to use in practice giving conflicting distance readings, loss of signal and slow reacqusition times, confusion when on the flux lines and very sensitive to sweeping and user movement patterns.
Your focus on single burials versus multiples has lot of merit but the functionality of the tracker needs improvement. The Tracker design seems several years old, will you be coming out with a Mark II version? If so will it improve the poor range and lousy pinpoint search functionality?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| The Tracker design seems several years old, will you be coming out with a Mark II version? |
I thought the Tracker 2 was due out last season, but, seems to have been delayed for some reason?
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philw, interesting..... wonder if they will do a trade in deal for existing tracker owners 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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philw, thanks, it looks great and seems to address all the problems i have with my old one. next season perhaps time for an upgrade....
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I have recently bought an Ortovox S1 from the Natives shop. Today they sent an email about their sale of Ovtovox F1 plus shovel plus probe for, what seems to me, a great price. See here.
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You know it makes sense.
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Adrian, Exellent!
Ordered today!
Dont think the F1 is for those not willing to practice. Im the type that will spend ages nailing this untill im as fast as a digital.
tux
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Where's the cheapest place anyone knows to buy a Pulse?
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, I got mine from Telemark Pyrenees who had them slightly cheaper than other online places I could find. However, that was at a better exchange rate than we have at the moment it might be better to find a UK retailer that sells them. www.theoutdoorgearshop.co.uk stocks them at £295 I think.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, thanks!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bumping this subject,
Im trying to decide between the pieps DSP and the BCA Tracker, my main thoughts/concerns are about range and spikes.
How much of a problem is the lack of spike processing with the Tracker, from peoples practising do they notice this? how deep
is the other transceiver buried? are spikes only an issue in 3m+ burials
Certainly from reading this review it does seem a little pointless to go for the DSP in terms of the multiple burials, but I cant
decide if this also applies to spikes:
http://www.facewest.co.uk/pp/ski/multipleburial.htm
So are spikes a real issue with respect to "less than 2 meter" burials, which is most realistic possibility of actually being able
to rescue someone from?
If you are within 1 meter then 2/3 mins of probing should be all it takes?
Taemo
Im also favouring the DSP for the range and the user interface, but is it all worth the extra £80 ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Taemo
I'd temper any internet research with personal experience. Tx are something you hope never to use in anger, but, you should practice until you can use with your eyes closed (or, at least, with gloves on, poor viz/cold/wind).
In _those_ conditions, something with a simple, easy to read display, is what you or your freezing buddy want (unless you expect to be doing a lot of searching, in which case you wouldn't be asking here).
If you've not already _used_ one, try to get to a practice session (HAT organise them in Val, and there are other places, in this thread and others).
to answer some questions:
How much of a problem is the lack of spike processing with the Tracker, from peoples practising do they notice this?
- didn't notice any issues when I did my HAT session in Val D'isere
how deep is the other transceiver buried?
- 1-2 feet
are spikes only an issue in 3m+ burials
- dunno - do you have a >3m pole?
the instructions with the tracker don't differentiate between victim depth... once you'r 'over' the victim, rely on the 'side to side' sweep/distance measure, it's faily obvious in practice.... you're problem then is digging 3m of snow out....
Dunno if anyone here's had to search for real.... with regards to multiple burials, when was the last time you skied with a group who were all fully equipped _AND_ had a plan to follow if they either came upon an avo, or where involved in one....
safe riding,
h
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I use a Tracker (bought second hand after 1 weeks use) and in every resort I go to that has one I practice in the training park. Also work on drills with mates. As stated above... in a real emergency situation the limiting factor is likely to be the operator rather than the machine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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hamilton, Thanks this really confirms exactly what im thinking. No, I have yet to use one and I was thinking about a course. But with my current ski booking im not close to a HAT talk, I know experience counts for everything and what you read on the web must be taken in context. Brought the "Avalanche" book and debating if I buy something before going out so I can practice with a mate. Might also hire a guide so I can go over this stuff with someone who knows.
Thanks for the advice.
Taemo
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Just read an interesting review of the BCA DTS Tracker here.
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FAQ
