 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm suffering from them.
My main problem is I get VERY nervous when skiing in groups (which is why I've relied on private lessons in the past). This is because I have cystic fibrosis and my lung function is far from normal. I'm very fit at sea level (I am a fitness instructor) but find it harder to compensate when at altitude. The things that cause me most difficulty are poling along on the flat/skating, and carrying skis, particularly up the stairs to a gondola lift. I also need to have more breathers when skiing down a long piste than most people, although my skiing itself is reasonably decent (I'm a Level 1 BASI instructor). I obviously find the extra exertion of off-piste skiing in deeper powder difficult because of the extra effort involved compared to skiing on a nice smooth piste. I can manage short bursts of good technique, but can't do a whole run at once without a few stops.
What bothers me about being in a group is the fact that
a) People have to wait for me either at the bottom or top of lifts to catch up when lugging skis around
b) People then set off as soon as I've arrived, so I can't get a breather and I start off struggling and immediately get left behind, with even more and progressively longer delays. This goes on all day, and I get exhausted and unable to benefit from the teaching.
c) These other people have paid for their lessons too. I am taking time from them that they could otherwise use skiing.
I guess in total, depending on terrain and the lift situation, I could cost a group about 1/2 hour out of a 3 hour half-day tuition in them waiting for me.
Nobody has actually complained directly to me in the past, although there have been varying levels of tolerance, and some exhortations to "keep up". People have varied in their response from ignoring me completely to offering to help carry my skis.
I'd like to know how tolerant people on SH would be if they felt I was eating into ski and tuition time that they have paid for.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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docsquid, I'd like to put I my hand and say "no....it wouldn't worry me" because it could easily be me or someone else in the group, so no-one should make you feel uneasy. If it is a serious concern then you should ask the instructor and if they are fine with it, then so should everyone else be.
I am very deaf and have told the instructors this. I have to wear hearing aids in both ears and under a woolly hat they are not great and certainly not across a slope as then I cannot even attempt to lip read so have to either shuffle across or keep asking people to repeat what we've been told to do. Otherwise I simply get it wrong and then people think I'm dim or not listening.
Please don't worry.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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docsquid, that's a really interesting question.
If I didn't know about your CF, I might just think, and be a little annoyed, that you simply hadn't taken enough trouble to get as fit as the course obviously required. (Omigod, what have I just said? I don't think I'm going to be fit enough for the course I'm soon going on myself, and there's nothing wrong with me apart from being old, fat and lazy!) But if I did know, I'd make allowances. Coincidentally, I'm doing a rowing course at the moment, and there's one blind person with whom I'm usually in a boat: she is given the stroke position, so that she can set the pace, rather than having to look at the movements of the person in front of her, which she obviously can't do. Unfortunately, she has little sense of rhythm, so it's quite difficult to synchronize with her. I find that mildly irritating, occasionally, but wouldn't dream of making an issue of it.
I think, in your place, I would put my cards on the table at the start and maybe even ask other people to carry your skis, if there's a tiring walk in prospect. (You don't have to give both skis to the same person, and it's really no trouble for most people to carry a single, extra ski for a bit.)
As to your point b), it's the first and golden rule of skiing and hill-walking, or should be, that the person who arrives last also needs some decent rest time. That applies to everybody, whether or not they are incapacitated in the way that you are. So I think you'd be well within your rights to remind people of that if necessary - through the instructor, if that makes it easier.
Do you explain the position to the course organisers in advance? If you do, and they accept you on to the course, then it's up to them to ensure that sufficient allowances are made for you and to ensure, too, that you are not hassled by other course members.
I hope you have a great time, you deserve it!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you explain the issue upfront it shouldn't be a problem, and I'd expect a good instructor to be able to tailor his course to aviod some of the issues that arise.
PLus if theres any smokers they'll be be just a buggered at altitude and also get a fag break thrown in.
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| Quote: |
If you explain the issue upfront it shouldn't be a problem
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Yes, that would be my view too. I would also hope that such an explanation would prompt someone to offer to carry your skis. My OH certainl would; he carries mine to relieve my hands, which are a bit sore with arthritis.
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Hi docsquid, this wouldn't bother me at all, I may well end up being slower than you! I don't know if we'll end up in the same group but for a half day class I can't understand why anyone would moan about being 'held up' for a short while. I think Hurtle's right about informing the ITS crew just so they're aware and can plan sessions accordingly. Hopefully, there will be a few snowheads in the group so that any malcontents can be leaned-on if they become unreasonable. Being a Billy Nomates skier, I like being in groups for the social aspects as much as the skiing and have been in loads of groups over the years. I've only ever encountered one group where there were issues with someone who shouldn't have been there but this person insisted and ignored the instructor's advice. This person was an oddball, you seem quite normal, hope you don't worry about it too much. See you on Saturday.
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docsquid,
I think this is an interesting question and there is not a clear answer. It is usual in off piste groups that I have been with that if there is a member who is significantly slower than the rest of the group that they move down to a level at which they are comfortable. It is quite often for reasons of fitness rather than technique, I have sometimes been that person.
If there is a group that is going slower it may make some sense to join it although you may have better technique than the others you will be skiing at the same speed and the learning opportunities should be the same.
Having said that if you make it clear early on what the hassle for you is I would expect you to get lot more assistance particularly with carrying skis etc. If it is a struggle it is sometimes worthwhile missing out on the last run which stops you from getting chronically tired and allows the rest a bit more skiing. I suspect you cost the group less time than you imagine as the next least fit person may appear fit when getting plenty of rest but would find it tough if you were not there.
Hope you have a really great time and good luck with it. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is mainly why I ski by myself and not in a group. I'm asthmatic and I have fibromyalgia. Although I ski OK, I'm not particularly fit and I find need a lot more breathers than most people. I just do it all in my own time and arrange to meet folks for food/drink stops...
Good luck to you though. I'm sure most people won't mind a few extra chances to admire the scenery...
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docsquid I hope you have a great time , I love group ski classes I must say, and have always found great camaraderie and support from the group altho I usually am behind,as, I am much older than the rest of the group usually ,so like to take little rests every so often. It has never been any problem at least that 's the impression I got ..and they all remained in the class for the week !...Enjoy !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks guys. I have talked at length with the ItS guys about this, and always explain things to the instructor so they can be aware. I have also selected one level down from the level that actually reflects my ski ability, so hopefully I will be able to use better ski speed to keep up. Mr DS is going in a higher level group, so I won't have him around to help with my skis. It wasn't an issue on my Level 1 course but then I did that in the Tamworth fridge where keeping up is less of a problem.
If they are planning a whole morning off-piste I'll probably duck out, or ask if there is an opportunity to duck out half way through e.g. a coffee stop. I need more off-piste practice but recognise in my case this is better achieved through private lessons.
It is very annoying - I train hard for at least 10-13 hours every week: base/endurance CV, lactate intervals, sprint intervals, weights and endurance conditioning - you name it, I do it. Without it, I wouldn't get out of the hotel, let alone be able to ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think courtesy is due from both sides. I cannot imagine that there isn't somebody who will offer to carry skis (although I don't think I've ever spent time in a lesson carrying skis?). Equally, I think it is very discourteous for a person who cannot keep up to slow down an entire group. And I don't think that inability to keep up as a result of illness is any better an excuse than being unfit. If you're in a group, you have to be able to keep up, otherwise it's just irritating.
The reality of life is that we all have things we cannot do; no way could I train for football with Hull United - let alone MU; I couldn't go running with the local harriers; I couldn't play golf with a pro. Were I to try to do any of these things I would: 1. irritate others; 2. irritate myself; 3. feel embarassed.
Because I'm incompetent with ball games, does that mean I have a disability and I have to be in the top group? I know dyxlexia is a recognised disability; perhaps I'm dyspraxic?
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I guess it's a question of balance. The instructor will have to balance the needs of his group as a whole, which always means a spread of abilities, fitness levels, aptitude in certain conditions, etc, so it will not be an unusual situation for the instructor to deal with. If there is a member of the group that is considerably out of step with the rest you would hope that the instructor/ski school can deal with the situation. This normally means moving people to different groups. For myself the opportunity to pause for breath while someone in the group is catching up is often welcome, although I accept there is a point at which it would become frustrating.
As others have said, I'd let your classmates know you that you have a certain issue with altitude and extended periods of exertion. Most people will have skied with people who have to wait for them from time to time, so hopefully there will be a level of understanding towards your CF. If you feel there is a session where it is clear that you are holding the group back then I'm sure your classmates would appreciate you ducking out for part of the time and taking things at your own pace for part of the day.
Enjoy your trip to Tignes.
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You know it makes sense.
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docsquid,
Accepting that altitude is a particular problem for you why not try and ski in countries other than France? The equivalent snow levels are lower further East so you should get decent skiing at a lower altitude in Austria or further North in Norway though I believe Norwegian weahter is a bit more maritime.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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docsquid, my biggest fear in group skiing has always been being the worst/slowest in the group. When others fall over/go slow I want to hug them in gratitude. There also aren't many opportunities in this day and age to be chivalrous/macho and I always welcome the opportunity to pretend to be fit and strong by carrying multiple pairs of skis (and....puff...grunt...showing...no..arrgh...pain...of course)
As T Bar, says though, why not lower the altitude? 3 really good resorts entirely below a mile (with apologies for doing the altitudes from memory) Tremblant tops out below 1000m, Are 1200m, Hemsedal 1400m. Moving to Austria, 1000s of KM of world class skiing below 2000m - ski amade, ski welt, tirol etc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Everytime I have skied in a group we tend to go at the pace of the slowest skier - usually myself !!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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T Bar, there aren't a whole lot of options at this time of year for lower altitude skiing, and we particularly wanted to go for Christmas this year. We have been to Austria before. Anywhere outside the EU is not possible for me as I can't get medical insurance cover 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well I'm on the ItS course too and I'm already concerned about keeping up a) because of ability, and b) because I have a knackered knee with surgery due a week after I get back. I am generally one of the older members of group lessons, and I find that the younger ones (naturally) make more progress than me during a week. So normally by the end of the week I feel I have to jump out of the group, because, as you say, I don't want to irritate people by holding them up, and also because I get so tired I no longer enjoy the skiing. Hopefully I will last longer than a couple of days, but if I don't I'm normally quite happy toodling around and humming to myself.
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docsquid,
Austria is a big country skiing wise! I admit I don't know what the snow reports are saying today about Christmas but do look at Kitz/St. Johann. You have access from those low resorts to Kitz, including up to Pass Thurn, the Ski Welt, St. Johann and Steinplatte and Fieberbrunn. All can be done in one holiday, if you are prepared to spend a little time moving about, by efficient ski buses or, if your pocket allows, even more easily by hiring a car. All of this area has its resorts at valley level and at a lower altitude than France and I have skiied there in Jan, Feb and March most years and more than once each season (save 2005 in Morzine in April when same applied) since 2002 without any lack of snow other than in the valleys. It is certainly worth googling those resorts and you may be pleasantly surprised. Hope this helps,
Aneira
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Aneira, yes, I'd be keen to go to Austria again. The main problem is all the courses I'd want to go on tend to be in France or Switzerland (e.g. Inspired to Ski, Snoworks). So Austria tends to be a one week holiday for us fitted in between the more serious instruction-type holidays.
noggy, I am quite happy to jump out of the group if I can't keep up too. We've got some private lessons booked for Christmas week anyway, so this should make up any shortfall from the course.
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docsquid, I've now caught your pre-trip nerves! 
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docsquid,
I have just come back from Lillehammer, Hajfell and Kjitsfell are only 10-15 mins away from the town, both areas below 1000m and have good skiing, and there is PLENTY of snow even now. The only draw back is £5.80 a pint 
Although with £ so weak against the Euro its gonna be £4.50 for a pint in france me thinks.
Norway is covered by the EU recipricol health thingy as its a member of the EFTA, and if Norway is no good Are in Sweden offers a very similar experience and is also pretty goood for early season snow. Lots of people dont like the lack of sunlight but I find it quite atmospheric!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| docsquid wrote: |
| The main problem is all the courses I'd want to go on tend to be in France or Switzerland (e.g. Inspired to Ski, Snoworks). |
Have you looked at Alpine Coaching. All mountain and off-piste courses in the Zillertal.
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Well - it didn't work out very well. First morning getting off a busy chairlift, a snowboarder fell over in front of the instructor who was sitting on my right. He did a reflex snowplough to avoid the boarder and unfortunately my ski was trapped under his, so I couldn't stop, turn or do anything. I fell spraining my lateral collateral knee ligament. Holiday over after 2 hours skiing.
So, I spent the rest of the week in a chalet in Tignes while everybody else was out playing in the snow. We managed to get a flight back a week early, as there was no point in staying if I couldn't ski as I was bored out of my head just sitting there. So my dream Christmas skiing in Tignes turned out to be an ordinary Christmas in Tamworth with a sore knee and no skiing.
The flight back was a nightmare. Chambery airport (yes, I know, but we had no choice at short notice) was foggy and eventually closed with all flights cancelled. After 7 hour delay we were bussed to Grenoble and waited three hours for a flight back to Stanstead. We got back after midnight and had to stay in the hotel at Stanstead, and get the train back in the morning. It didn't end there - the train was cancelled at Cambridge so we had to lug all our stuff off the train and wait for another. We finally got back after 36 hours of travelling.
My knee is getting a bit better, although there is still quite a lot of pain when I bend it fully. But I've now caught a cold as a result of waiting in crowded airports, and am about to be started on IV antibiotics - 2 weeks of giving myself injections three times a day. Lovely
Lets hope it goes better in Courchevel in March.
Unfortunately there is now no hope of doing my Level 2 this season thanks to missing 2 weeks of precious skiing practice
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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docsquid, what an awful shame for you. Hope you recover soon
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docsquid,
No luck, I did my ACL last new year and was absolutely gutted, so I know how you feel. Hope you recover quickly!
Is it my imagination or do more snowboarders fall getting off chairlifts than stay upright? Anyway I've carefully avoided getting on a chairlift with a snowboarder for the last couple of years 
The big comeback on 17th January and I must admit I'm nervous
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You know it makes sense.
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docsquid, Bad luck indeed... slow speed falls like this are the worst..and not even your fault. I nearly thumped someone who did that to me and dumped me on my backside with my bindings racked up...  Grrrrr..!!!!
I do hope Mar is better for you
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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docsquid,
Can you not try skiing alone? and agree to meet each other at a designated place for lunch or regroup?
Seems to me you want to stick with the skiing companions who ski faster than you. Choose those who ski slower and your problem should disappear.
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Poster: A snowHead
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docsquid, sorry to hear about your injury and troubles, it must have been a nightmare especially considering how much you were looking forward to and considering how to approach the holiday, and as a boarder I apologise for the one that fell and caused your instructor to ski in to you ,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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docsquid, what very bad luck. Sorry to hear it was such a disaster; hope the knee is fully better for you to start back on the exercise before long.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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docsquid, sorry to hear that, rotten luck
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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docsquid, sorry to hear yout news. And there was I a bit fed up because our outbound flight was 5 1/2 hrs late and inbound 2 1/2
There's loads of coughs around at the moment; we sat on the transfer coach and plane wishing that we had surgical masks as everybody spluttered around us.
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docsquid, Sorry to hear that too. Hope you mend soon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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docsquid, bad luck indeed. I hope your plans for 2009 skiing work out well.
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docsquid...so sorry to hear about your nightmare journey and accident ,,hope you make a quick recovery and have a great holiday in March.
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FAQ
). Maybe I've just been lucky but most groups I've been in are quite tolerant, adopting an "all for one and one for all" approach - I've even seen a guide in Serre Che carry about 4 pairs of skis for members of a group (not mine I hasten to add!).
