 Poster: A snowHead
|
Today's Observer has producted a tongue in cheek look at the typical chalet holiday, and the ten golden rules to be observed by all guests to ensure a pleasurable time is had by all - chalet staff included.
| Quote: |
No other nation goes in for it but, according to the Ski Club of Great Britain, it is the British skier's favourite holiday formula and accounts for 400,000 holidays a season.
There are nowhere near enough real chalets to accommodate this many skiers, so the 'chalet holiday' concept has grown to embrace apartments and hotels run by British tour operators as giant house parties. The principle is the same: nobody inside has to eat foreign food, meet foreign people or pay through-the-nose hotel prices for alcohol. |
| Quote: |
| They may also improve their time management, learning to wash up, prepare supper for 10 and clean the house in under two hours with a hangover. Entrepreneurship is fostered too, as 'seasonaires' find ways to supplement a meagre income and fund a party lifestyle in resorts where beer costs £5 a pint. These include snow clearing, massage, childcare, bootleg ski guiding/instruction, bread/newspaper delivery, airport taxi services. The fact that most of these activities are illegal - unofficial ski guides are specially vulnerable to arrest and imprisonment without trial - puts no one off. French prisons are no hardship after staff accommodation in Val d'Isère. |
These two quotes from the article have nailed some of the reasons why the UK is sometimes seen as the "odd man out" in the European Community. Holidaymakers from most other (European) nations actually prefer to eat foreign food and meet foreign people. If they want cheap booze they can buy it at the supermarket themselves. They tend to see regulations protecting both standards and local jobs as beneficial to the community, helping to maintain the integrity of local culture. Many frown on low wage labour as a form of exploitation rather than seeing it as the inevitable effect of an entrepreneurial, free market system at work. (No value judgments here, I hasten to add!)
Never stayed in a chalet myself, but some of the rules certainly ring true! (Rather like no. 5, "Thou Shalt Not Covet the Chalet Staff"....)
| Quote: |
| Gentlemen, act your age. Reports of Fathers Who Flirt - 'sex-starved husbands who think that full service chalets mean close encounters with chalet staff' - are numerous. Of course the system is to blame, along with the altitude and free wine. Most men over 40 are unused to 20-year-old girls wanting to know how our day went and saying: 'Gosh, how fascinating. I've always wondered exactly what it is that an actuary does.' The attention can easily turn a chap's head. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
A good chuckle reading that. Thanks PG. Never chaleted and after that read I think I've made the right decision. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
PG, great article. I have chaleted quite a lot, and all the rules ring very true. The secret is to make friends with the chalet staff. No letching and don't treat them as servants. Pour them a large strong drink at the Welcome session, get their life story, and keep pouring the vodka/gin/brandy. Playful flirting is allowed, especially if the chalet staff are more "mature". (Be very careful flirting with staff of the same sex).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I can't recall a bad chalet holiday. And the chalet girls are fair game and all it usually involves is a few drinks.
I can remember getting our girls so drunk in the KK that we blew out dinner and went out on the town...often throughout the week. The trick is, like Jonpim, says, is not to treat them like scivvies.
Letching is ok but it will cost you, by and large..!!
I mean, the first thing you want is an attractive chalet girl and thats it, everything else falls into place.
Could never understand 'chalet boys' but then I don't ski with my partner..!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Sorry, substitue 'flirting' for ' letching'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I use chalets a lot less now that I am slipping into fuddy-duddy old age . But I did use one recently at Saas Fee - I think we obeyed pretty much all the rules, BTW - on a late deal that was too good to miss. Used to go to chalets a lot. They were (and I guess still are) a great way to be social. And they were much cheaper than staying in a hotel in a French resort. Must admit that I thought French interpetation of employment rules would force them out of business. Rather glad that's not the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think Mr Zotov has it right. 'The Observer' is misleading its readers as to why chalets were successful.
People chose chalets because they were a cheap way to go skiing. Nothing to do with xenophobia or an aversion to foreign food.
Chalets used to to be the speciality of small companies, largely based in Fulham, desperate to fill empty rooms. So all the last minute bargains were in the Sunday Times a week or two before departure date.
I can remember one holiday in Chatel. Had the run of the whole chalet for the first week. I went to collect the tickets and the company was operating out of a semi in Finchley. One woman and a dog when I arrived -quite literally.
Of course a lot of the small companies got taken over - but people had got used to the idea. Anyway, lots of resorts would be virtually impossible to visit unless people used chalets or self-catered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Latchigo, you're quite chalets are a value for money way to go skiing but that doesn't mean that the quality is less than it would be in a hotel. You're also right that a lot of chalets are operated by small companies, we're one and so is my son's company but we do it because it helps us to fund a lifestyle. Both my daughter and son live in their chalets all year round. they're very much part of the village they live in and we believe that helps our guests get to know the village and the people very quickly.
From a chalet owners point of view, 99% of our guests are terrific, they join in and really contribute to life of the chalet, the other 1%, well suffice it to say they probably wouldn't be happy anywhere.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 9-01-05 16:16; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Yes, thinking back on the last 3 chalets I stayed in, scattered over a few years, the private ones had the edge. Almost by definition, they were run by enthusuats, who had a stake in the business. Makes a great combination from the guest poin of view. Good luck out there, David.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I echo that sentiment. It's a tough business world, and small independents are finding it increasingly difficult to make real money, as they are undercut by the big boys able to beat them on price left right and centre. One British ski school director in Val was telling me how the big TO's don't even try to do better than break even on accommodation in some circumstances - instead they make most of their money in commissions from various sources.
There is hope - a friend of mine has a couple of large chalets, originally placed in the hands of an small operator, but which gradually grew in size over the years. Service suffered, she had more and more problems, and eventually transferred the whole business back to a small team that goes out of its way to provide a personal service. Guests are happier, and as an owner she has far less problems too. Fortunately for the small private business, size rarely goes hand in hand with quality of service!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| David@traxvax wrote: |
Latchigo, you're quite chalets are a value for money way to go skiing but that doesn't mean that the quality is less than it would be in a hotel. You're also right that a lot of chalets are operated by small companies, we're one and so is my son's company but we do it because it helps us to fund a lifestyle. Both my daughter and son live in their chalets all year round. they're very much part of the village they live in and we believe that helps our guests get to know the village and the people very quickly.
From a chalet owners point of view, 99% of our guests are terrific, they join in and really contribute to life of the chalet, the other 1%, well suffice it to say they probably wouldn't be happy anywhere. |
I am not having a pop at you, or similar small chalet companies. I wish you every success.
Furthermore, I suspect the smaller companies give a better service than chalets run by national companies, because it is more of a hands-on operation.
Yes, you are absolutely right, it is all a question of live and let live if you want to enjoy your chalet trip.
Anyway, chalets are infinitely preferable to self -catering. To me, self-catering means the women giving you a list of items to clog up your suitcase - packet soups, corned beef, washing up liquid in small containers ! Heaven help us.
However, as I get older I find the little extras that hotels provide become attractive. A decent 4 star hotel in Davos is more to my liking now, than sharing bathrooms and waiting for water to heat up. By the same token, I always used to skip lunch or make do with a drink and a sandwich. Now, if I am in the right resort, I am quite happy to stop for a decent lunch. This may be a factor of age and funds rather than any reflection on chalet standards or mountain restaurants.
Of course chalets may have moved on since my day.Chalet hotels are a slightly different concept anyway.
I have been to the main chalet resorts already. However, I still don't think hotels would be in my price range in Courchevel or Val d'Isere. Fortunately, in other places they are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Just got back from St Anton on a chalet holiday - 40 people in the chalet. Had an absolute blast. There were students, OAP's couples, and the chalet staff, all were getting on as if we'd known each other for life by the end of it. Free wine in the chalet, bar crawls, pub quizzes and generall drunken foolery at the kk and mooserwirt, and I cant see myself going to a hotel ever again to be honest - all seems a bit dull, and expensive!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| PG wrote: |
| These two quotes from the article have nailed some of the reasons why the UK is sometimes seen as the "odd man out" in the European Community. Holidaymakers from most other (European) nations actually prefer to eat foreign food and meet foreign people. If they want cheap booze they can buy it at the supermarket themselves. They tend to see regulations protecting both standards and local jobs as beneficial to the community, helping to maintain the integrity of local culture. Many frown on low wage labour as a form of exploitation rather than seeing it as the inevitable effect of an entrepreneurial, free market system at work. (No value judgments here, I hasten to add!) |
hold on a moment.... that's completely and totally untrue. Without the British trade there's plenty of restaurants round ski stations that would go bust very, very quickly. The average (and majority) of French holiday makers arrive with their own food and drink, it's not even bought at the local supermarket, they then stay in their apartments each and every evening preparing their own meals. It looks incredibly unpleasant given the occupancy levels they manage in some apartments 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
ise, I was thinking in more general terms, across the tourism industry as a whole. And I still believe that proportionately, far more nationals from other European Union nations are prepared to experiment in terms of getting to know other cultures. Numbers of Brits in restaurants in certain places can be misleading - there are, after all, far more of them than from other European countries, with big concentrations in specific resorts.
As for the French arriving with their own food and drink - that's certainly not been my experience over the past few years.
Reminds me of a few years back in Tenerife. I trekked up to the plateau under Mt Teide, and booked myself into the parador. On my way I met Frenchmen, Dutch, Germans, a couple of Israelis. Not a single Brit. In the parador there was the same cross section of nationals staying the night - but not one Brit. This despite the vast bulk of the holiday population of some 1.5m per year being British, with around 100,000 Brits presumably sunning themselves by their pools during the week in question!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| PG wrote: |
| ise... with around 100,000 Brits presumably sunning themselves by their pools during the week in question! |
Perhaps cos the Brits are less used to the sun?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
ise, I agree, from time to time we hire apartments and in some, the occupancy levels the owners achieve are surprising to say the least, the record has to be six bunks, 2 tiers of 3 in one room. These do tend to be the older properties and it's interesting that where new developments are taking place the standards are increasing, there's one new development in La Rosiere, leased to a British TO that has an indoor swimming pool, sauna, spa etc. That property was built to cater for British skiers, it does however, also contain some apartments for their French clientele.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 10-01-05 10:35; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| PG wrote: |
As for the French arriving with their own food and drink - that's certainly not been my experience over the past few years.
|
It's the rule rather than the exception, pop up to Tignes or Les Menuires on a weekend and you'll see them all arriving. Stunning how they all get all the stuff in the cars really.
Generally you're quite right about the British without a doubt. But the French, particularly in their own country hardly go out at all, at least for skiing holidays. I've no particular feeling how it works in the summer, looks the same for people going up to mountain stations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
| It's the rule rather than the exception, pop up to Tignes or Les Menuires on a weekend and you'll see them all arriving. Stunning how they all get all the stuff in the cars really. |
Just doesn't compute with me at all. I've helped Brits unload tons of baked beans from their cars, before heading up to our apartments, whereas the French very rarely come loaded down with foodstuffs, preferring to buy locally. Anyway, self-catering is just what it says - restaurants are an occasional luxury for most, rather than the norm. I've spent months in and out of apartments in the southern Alps and sure, there are always a few French who buy up the hypermarché before setting off from home, but it's not as widespread as all that. Ditto in the summer. The restaurants are mainly populated by the French in large parts of Provence.
Bear in mind that the French are pretty choosy. If the quality is poor, they will avoid a restaurant like the plague. And so many resort establishments cater for the Brits who generally speaking, are considered to be less 'particular' . I've heard it said many a time that it's thanks to the British ski population that restaurant standards have fallen considerably - but not price!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
PG, You're looking in the wrong places. The massive self catering stations for the majority of French like Val Thorens, Les Menuires, Flaine, Tignes, Isola etc etc the French turn up to a small studio, 10 members of the family get out of the Espace along with all the supplies for the week and a dog. They'll go out one evening in the week, possibly, and have a fondue. Not the case in Val D'Isere or Courcheval of course and presumably not Bourg St Maurice from what you're saying.
We see this first hand at Morillon, at 1100 we only manage two restaurants which are generally pretty empty, in fact one of them doesn't bother to open sometimes. But in, say, Siviez part of the 4V in Switzerland they support 4 busy restaurants (I think it's 4) for about 30% of the apartments.
As you mention it, the French might think they're pretty choosy but they're deluding themselves, about half of French restaurants would last about a week in Switzerland, their quality, particularly of the ingredients and especially meat, would be considered totally unacceptable here. The British are probably less particular but you could say much the same of the Germans
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
ise, My experience is top-class food in Switzerland (Saas Fee, Zermatt) but the local wine tends to be disappointing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
ise, we'll just have to agree to differ! Les Arcs is virtually all self-catering, and I was talking to Robert Falcoz who owns the biggest restaurant there, the Chalet de l'Arc. While the British customers are a significant proportion of the total, it is packed out with French throughout most of the season.
Over the years I've yet to eat a meal in Switzerland that comes close to the best I've had in France.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nick Zotov, really? Compared to what? I've never found that but I may know the local varieties better. On balance, the best French wine is probably the best in the world of course but the bulk of it no better then anywhere else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PG, ise, interesting over the last 15 or so years I've had good meals in both France and Switzerland, however on average the quality of the Swiss food does seem a bit better than the French, I'm no expert on Haute Cuisine you understand but I can differentiate between over cooked and undercooked, or fresh ingreedients and ones that have stood arround for a few days, I suspect ise, is right when he points to the quality of the ingredients.
Nick Zotov, there are good Swiss Wines out there in the same way that there are good English wines, the problem is finding them
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
ise, and D G Orf, The Swiss wine I have had so far has been pleasant, but with no wow. However, be assured, I will keep trying 
Overall, I admire Swiss hospitality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Frosty the Snowman, you could at least have dropped off a few cans of Theakston's Best on the way past.... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
One weakness I think with Swiss wine, shared with Austrian/Sud-Tyrol wines, is they tend to a slight over-engineering. I find French or Italian wines have more idiosyncrasies and variations.
PG, you see I didn't mention Les Arcs for a reason, it was never something I've noticed there. You'll have to come over here next time you're passing, the restaurant in the village knocks out meals that surpass most places.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Nick Zotov wrote: |
ise, and D G Orf, The Swiss wine I have had so far has been pleasant, but with no wow. However, be assured, I will keep trying
Overall, I admire Swiss hospitality. |
There are plenty of Swiss wines with distinct 'wow' factor, but they tend to be made on a small scale and are rarely available outside the immediate locale of the vineyard, sometimes only from the vineyard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
PG, Sorry about that. We had lunch at the Arpette Restaurant on Saturday and I could have rolled some cans down the hill to you. What a great view from the terrace!. Nice to see you back, I did see a message you put in RSRE about rocks and thin cover on anything steep in La Plange, boy were you right, thank the lord for ski hire shops!. We had fab weather, but the temp was really high by the end of the week. We stepped out of the Funiplagne into slush on Friday  . Ironically the best snow was in Champangy up the the top of the Borsellieres lifts.
The "social skier" from the chalet took us to Les Arcs on the Saturday and the snow was better than in LP and the slopes were in much better nick, we all really rated the new lifts, . What a way to finish a holiday, touring both resorts, fab weather and a trip on the amazing Vanoise Express. Out of the 30, 5 adults and 5 kids (all 10 or younger) did the trip and the "Social Skier" took the kids over all the bums, jumps, loops and corner cuts he good find, even did the snowpark jumps a couple of times. He was like the Pied Piper with little rats in tow. Sorry if you can tell that Im still buzzin'. We did like Les Arcs and thought it would make for a great holiday next year!. 3rd time in la Plagne and thats enough for me though, Plagne Centre is the most badly designed ski hub I have ever come across, wondeful for tricep development, but crap for speedy crossover, also all the lifts seem to be built 30 metres too high up.
I could also suggest Black Sheep which I consider superior to Theakstons, which is brewed by a member of the Theakston family
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Interesting reading on chalets, etc. I'm due to do my first ever chalet holiday this season in StAnton for 2 weeks. Never having stayed in a chalet, it should be an interesting new experience. Mind you, having spent some holidays in fairly dire hotels or apartments and all of last season in a motorhome, I'm hoping a chalet will compare quite reasonably. I'll let you know in due course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
In my experience (used to live France, french girlfriend etc.) the french like to stay in, like their own families very much and like to entertain their friends at home rather than eat out. On average they might eat out (in the evening) or go to the cinema perhaps once a month. They simply continue this when they go skiing. Brits, in general, like to eat out more often and many like to go to the pub on average 3 times a week. Brits continue this when they go skiing.
Chalet holidays though. I have been on maybe half a dozen over the years. In general they are what you make of them. If you're outgoing and tolerant you will have a great time as will your chaletmates. If you are an intolerant navel-gazer you will not.
Paul Theakston left the Theakston business when it was bought out hence the Black Sheep. Staggeringly fabulous beer. Literally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Just a question - Is red bull REALLY illegal in france!?!?
*setting up plans for international bull trafficking network... *
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
IanB, yes I know of one British TO who was fined very heavily for selling Red Bull in their bars.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| IanB wrote: |
| Just a question - Is red bull REALLY illegal in france!?!? |
Yes, according to Medical News Today
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I've tried the French equivalent, not worth drinking, can't even remember the name of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Were you drinking it with vodka by any chance David, hence memory loss?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mark, unfortunately not, do you remember the Rossignol tour in La Ros last month, they were promoting it then. I'n not sure that Vodka would have improved it, unless you threw away the energy drink and just drank the vodka.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 10-01-05 23:18; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
David,
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
These two quotes from the article have nailed some of the reasons why the UK is sometimes seen as the "odd man out" in the European Community. Holidaymakers from most other (European) nations actually prefer to eat foreign food and meet foreign people.
|
This is not true. THe Scandinavians are famous for renting out entire appartment blocks especially in Austria & buying there own food, booze and amusing themselves. THey are allso famous for the Picnics on the Piste. The locals used to hate this as only the supermarkets gained anyhting financially. They very rarely went out.
They have been doing this years WAY before the British arrived on mass in the Alps.
Working for the Scandinavian Tour Companys (Black) in Austrian resorts (shopping, carrying the Picnic Hampers 3 times a week to some remote spot) used to be good source of Ski Bum income to me back in the 80's !!
I can only say that I done one Chalet Trip to Bareges in Easter of 1980 only cost 10 Pounds a day. It was certainly an interesting experience. Stayed above a Post Office . The clientalle were not just Brits. Had folk from Holland, Belgium,Canada. One day of the week there was no cooking, so you had to eat out. Not sure if thats how they still work ?
I think the Chalet Holiday would be a better/improved concept if they could intergrate more Nationality's. Going to a foreign country and just mixing with your own people seems narrowminded disrespectfull to the locals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, let's just say that it's a matter of opinion, shall we? The Scandinavians I have met are far more prepared to experiment and indulge in local culture that the British, and bear in mind that we're not just talking about those we find in ski resorts, I was referring to foreign travel as a whole.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
