 Poster: A snowHead
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With no announcement yet about venue and cost for the MSB, I am looking at my options between, 7 - 21 March. Various cronies I have skied with in the past probably cannot make those dates - so one thought is to go SC at Alpe D'Huez and meet up with the rep's party. Yes, I know I have left the SCGB - but I can do a U turn if there's a benefit in doing so.
Which leads me to the questions: there's lots of chat which has drifted way OT in another thread about new rules for the reps, but
1. Have you skied off-piste with a rep's party this season?
2. What was the effect of the new rules?
3. What sort of slopes were you skiing?
4. Did you have an enjoyable time?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| achilles wrote: |
| ... I can do a U turn ... |
off-piste?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i highly doubt that the rep will take you to the good places off-piste at ADH
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Arno, Actually, the last one I skied with (in a party) did - through trees towards in the area heading towards Vaujanay. There must be quite a lot of off-piste in the ADH area, I think. Have you skied elsewhere with a rep this season?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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achilles, that stuff is fun on a snowy day, but the best stuff is off the pic blanc and the dome des rousses and definitely doesn't meet the "close to the pistes" criteria
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Arno, yes it was good fun. Might be able to meet up with a party through the rep, though, and hire a guide. That said, I do wonder how close to the pistes 'close to the pistes' is, in practice.
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Approximately the length of your living room
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David Goldsmith, ah good. I take it you have skied with a rep this year if you are saying that. Where? With whom? If you have zilch knowledge, OTOH, please don't deter others who do actually know about what is happening on the slopes with the reps. I had vague hopes you might be interested to, and so would not seek to wreck this thread.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
| That said, I do wonder how close to the pistes 'close to the pistes' is, in practice. |
there's a thread about that somewhere on here 
a guide on a nice day in ADH is well worth the investment.
from a nosey point of view, I'd be quite interested to see how the guidelines operate in an area i know well like ADH
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| Arno wrote: |
| ............there's a thread about that somewhere on here ... |
I know. But I'd like a reality check on what really is happening out there now that things have settled down a bit. Not what happened last season - and not what the armchair pundits think.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, considering the number of reps and the vagueness of the guidelines, it might be difficult to get a useful view. Thinking of the three reps with whom I came into contact last season, I wouldn't mind betting they would have wildly differing views about where they were prepared to go. Maybe you could contact the reps in question? Don't know how easy that would be, though, even for a member, let alone a non-member...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, I rather hope this thread will generate a reasonable impression of how, on average the rules are being interpreted. The silence from sHs who have skied off-piste with them this season is disappointing, so far.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Maybe you could contact the reps in question? Don't know how easy that would be, though, even for a member, let alone a non-member... |
i was just thinking that... don't they publish reps' details on the website somewhere?
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, I haven't skied with a rep- but - jut perhaps they are being discreet?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Arno wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Maybe you could contact the reps in question? Don't know how easy that would be, though, even for a member, let alone a non-member... |
i was just thinking that... don't they publish reps' details on the website somewhere? |
Yes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| edsilva wrote: |
| achilles, I haven't skied with a rep- but - jut perhaps they are being discreet? |
certainly a possibility given the way the other thread turned out
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| achilles wrote: |
| ... please don't deter others who do actually know about what is happening on the slopes with the reps. I had vague hopes you might be interested to, and so would not seek to wreck this thread. |
Genuine apologies for the nonsense above. I'm therefore bumping this from p.2, which hopefully keeps the topic alive.
My impression is that there are reps who will ignore the new rules to some extent, because they really don't want to be reigned in. It's obviously unlikely that they will publicise this, or that SCGB members will relate experiences of 'business as usual'. I've certainly had conversations with reps who believe they can continue with a more liberal freedom of action than would be indicated by the new rules, but they are bound to be discreet about it.
Presumably the Club wishes to impose these new rules so that if there is an incident where the rules have been breached they can dissociate themselves from the rep's actions, and absolve members from responsibility. However, this is not likely to work in relation to potential civil litigation.
I have to say I was slightly bemused at your thread because you've procrastinated for quite a while about leaving the White House, finally did so last autumn, and are now considering re-entering it. I think there is a limit on the number of times you can serve.
The SCGB situation seems unreal to me. There are no grey areas between piste and off-piste - everyone knows that. Any worthwhile off-piste involves traversing/diverting some distance from the groomed snow. Sure you can always find a bit of powder to poodle around with near the piste, but that's no off-piste adventure.
My impression, as I say, is that a few reps are still prepared to go for it, but they're not likely to make a song and dance about it. I'm all in favour of the Club sailing a course which keeps it mid-stream - it's not there just to involve everyone in collective risk. The mermaid beckons on the rock of the Rhine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith,
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| I've certainly had conversations with reps who believe they can continue |
I don't believe for one moment that any rep would be so stupid as to talk to you. They must all know you and know what your like.
This is probably another psychological profiling event on your part.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Loose talk saves lives.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Goldsmith, ok then, let's examine another one of your comments.
| Quote: |
| The SCGB situation seems unreal to me. There are no grey areas between piste and off-piste - everyone knows that. |
But of course you do eliminate some of the dangers by staying closer.
1. Less likely to get lost.
2. Less likely to get caught out by a sudden change in the weather.
And maybe some others that I haven't thought of.
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| David Goldfish wrote: |
| ......... There are no grey areas between piste and off-piste - everyone knows that.......... |
Hmm. Have a look at the area to the left of the white band (which was caused by a piste basher - snow farming I think). You can click to enlarge. Resort avalanche risk posted as 2. No risk of a fall from above. Stable snow - and I'd been advised by an instructor that it would be fine to ski. Not on piste - but just beautiful to ski down - nice and smooth. A run I'd done before, and knew there were no hidden holes. No need for a rep or anybody else, of course. But even though many (including davidof whom I greatly respect) say it does not exist, I'd say that was 'a little bit off piste'.
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PJSki, your questions are only relevant inasmuch as they are relevant to achilles.
He doesn't want to paddle around in a rock pool, or dip his toes in lapping waves. He wants to swim with dolphins.
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| achilles wrote: |
| No need for a rep or anybody else, of course. |
In that case, I'd cite examples of terrain that you'd like a rep to take you into, where you would feel the need for a rep, and we can evaluate them.
They're likely to be hotly debated, because there's so much (professional) judgement involved, 'as a rule'.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith,
| Quote: |
| your questions are only relevant inasmuch as they are relevant to achilles. |
What questions?
I can't decide if you're mad, bad, pissed or on drugs half the time.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| What questions? |
Good question.
[Good night.]
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, I thought your starting this thread might have been a good idea, BUT THEN PJSki and David Goldsmith have joined in and as usal destroyed what could have been something good. Have fun trying to up eachother guys. maybe, just maybe one day when someone starts a good thread and you will keep out and let those that know something make constructive comments.
Sorry achilles, not going to waste my time on this thread, but it was a good idea, pity!! Have fun boys 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It certainly would be interesting to have a rep's specific views about a specific resort ie to have some solid examples on which to hang the not-so-solid guidelines. Are there no SCGB reps, who are also snowHeads, who could say where in the Alpe d'Huez domain they would (or wouldn't) be prepared to lead off-piste without a guide? That would be helpful for achilles and indeed for others, at least those who know their way around AdH and its environs. Do you know AdH yourself, PJSki?
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Isn't snowcrazy, a rep? Although he's been understandably p*ssed off by the word games.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Colin B wrote: |
| Isn't snowcrazy, a rep? Although he's been understandably p*ssed off by the word games. |
Yes, and probably yes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Colin B, yes, I believe so. I'm not sure why an argument between two other, tiresome Club members prevents him from making more constructive comments himself, but still, up to him I suppose.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle, Until some people on here stop using any thread about SCGB as a way of having a go at it for no particular reason, I do not think any of us will want to contribute to these threads. I sure do not wish to. I thought this was a good idea, but then it was messed up as always. It really is time some people grew up a bit.
rob@rar, yes you could say that is how i feel about all this.
Now I shall just sit back and see what rubbish get's posted as always happens. Mostly by people that know nothing about what they are speaking. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowcrazy, yes, I can understand your annoyance, but it would just be so nice if a good advertisement for the Club spoke up from time to time, instead of all the poor ones. There again, there are just so many reps, it would be unrealistic to expect you all to exude sweetness and light! I have skied with just three reps (last season and the season before.) One was completely brilliant, frankly beyond any criticism at all, another was also very good, the third was unhelpful, unfriendly and somewhat irresponsible. Just the luck of the draw.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle, i sympathise completely with snowcrazy. in the world of off-piste skiing there is a huge amount of ill-informed arm-chair quarterbacking. in the other SCGB thread i tried to explain my own ski club's (or one of them's ) position on this and my attitude to leading and had to defend myself against a lot of sniping from an extremely unconstructive poster.
maybe achilles should just PM snowcrazy - it's a shame we can't all see the answer but at least he gets the info he is looking for
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Arno, absolutely understood.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| I'm not sure why an argument between two other, tiresome Club members ... |
Is there any possibility of changing that to "tireless", in respect of one of the members?
Let's get back to the official SCGB policy, and work from there. It says:
| Quote: |
| Off-piste terrain will be known to the Rep, and terrain unknown to them will be limited to short trips between or to the side of the pistes. Reps will choose off-piste skiing runs where it is possible to return to a marked run, piste, itinerary, lift or village within a short period of skiing time for the weakest skier in the group. |
Source: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.asp?intStoryID=5104
I don't think it's fair to say that anyone is out to wreck threads which discuss the above, or its application on the mountain. It is the case (I'd be confident in professing) that no other organisation on earth operates to this policy.
A "short period of skiing time" is - shall we say - 3 to 5 minutes. At a modest speed of 10 mph, half a mile is covered in 3 minutes, so the somewhat exaggerated positions adoped by me (length of living room) and
Graham N on the first page of the other thread "only say 5/10 metres from the edge of a piste" are actually confounded.
Indeed, we have a situation in which very broad interpretations of the rule can be taken.
Caroline Stuart-Taylor, chief exec of the Club, stated at the 2007 AGM that the legal advice was that it was preferable to have a blurred definition of acceptable rep-led off-piste skiing. In this context, it is perhaps not surprising that discussion is muted, and reps who wish to liberally interpret the rule (or members who've experienced that freedom) prefer not to cite examples of 'waywardness'.
This is not a sustainable situation, and I fear that it will give rise to future avoidable incidents, but not because of reps like snowcrazy (whose expertise is complimented by rob@rar). I agree that achilles is only likely to get an answer to his questions privately.
Remember that this was the same discussion that, five year ago, almost certainly swayed SCGBHQ's hand in banning non-members from the forum. Are we making progress?
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I am not seeking to rake over old arguments. I really am interested in how snowheads who have skied this season off-piste with a SCGB rep felt about their day. Was it enjoyable and adequately challenging?
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achilles, sorry, can't help with an answer to your perfectly reasonable question....so will keep my gob shut (hint No1)
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achilles, I also think you have asked a perfectly reasonable question and it would be interesting to see some response. If there isn't any response though, you will have unwittingly started a conspiracy theory which should run for at least 400 pages. You see, little or no response to your question, will be taken by some to mean that nobody actually skis with reps and that they are all just enjoying a freebie on the back of all the members. Or, those that have skiied with reps have been "got at" and are just too frightened to say anything. Or, lots have skiied with reps but they're all MIA. See what your perfectly resonable question has innocently started?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I, too, think it's a perfectly reasonable question. Frosty the Silent Snowman is also to be commended.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 29-01-09 12:09; edited 1 time in total
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David Goldsmith,
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Is there any possibility of changing that to "tireless", in respect of one of the members?
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No. The clue is in Frosty the Snowman's last post.
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FAQ
