 Poster: A snowHead
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| DaveC wrote: |
| It depends how you define a piste, though the fact you can get a groomer up it pretty much invalidates it from the "hard" definition anyway. I can pick some lines in Fernie that are ridiculous and it's technically inbounds... |
maybe that's the definition of a piste - it has to be groomed. Even occasionally .....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd of thought so.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rich, no - it is a piste - same applies to many steeper bits of JH. Alta 0-3. Tower 3 etc etc
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where do people put Charles Bozon in Brevent?..if skied straight down (ie not the zig zags but most people do these and do not ski straight down) almost everybody falls over- it is actually very steep...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We need Easy Gully put on the Nevis Range Piste Map, but climbers would get upset, plus the name could be asking for trouble! 
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I've peered over the edge of Easy Gully a few times but always been too chicken to try it! When I did the sous le telepherique at courchevel it was still a piste, and a far more serious proposition than either grand couloir or tunnel at AdH. Toughest piste I've done recently probably Pallavicini at A-Basin, which on slightly glazed snow last easter was VERY interesting...
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stoatsbrother, I'll do a 180 on this one, confused by the dashed black, not a convention used in Europe.
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So I think the main question here is... what exactly is a piste?
If you say a piste is a groomed marked run, then I'd have to go with one of the pistes in Europe such as Harakiki (38 degrees). 99% of NA marked runs this steep are ungroomed.
If you say a piste is a marked run, then there are SO many runs that will/could be listed here. Just to name a few: Palisades @ Squaw, Mott and Killebrew Canyon @ Heavenly, Alta Chutes @ JH, Tower 3 Chute @ JH, Expert Chutes @ JH, Great Scott @ Snowbird, Baldy Chute @ Alta, Tuckerman's Ravine @ Mount Washington, The Fingers @ Squaw, Big Jim's Chute @ Kirkwood, Spanky's Ladder @ Blackcomb, Lake Chutes @ Breckenridge...
...and notice how all these runs I named were in NA. Europe doesn't mark all there hardest stuff-- that's why all the expert skiers are skiing off piste! In NA, they mark all there runs creating a less chance of the need to ski off piste and into more avy-prone terrain.
Conclusion: There is no harder piste!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skiking4, I think that sums it up nicely. Although (as posted elsewhere) I was about to ski Tower 3 at JH 2 weeks ago when it did avalanche and killed someone.
How steep is OMG at Wengen?
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
skiking4, I think that sums it up nicely. Although (as posted elsewhere) I was about to ski Tower 3 at JH 2 weeks ago when it did avalanche and killed someone.
How steep is OMG at Wengen? |
Haha, lucky you that you didn't head down there before the avalanche! 
And just if anyone wants to take a look (also located in my sig), I have a site that lists over 60 different trails in the Eastern US. Definitely not some of the hardest runs in the world and not very close, but interesting for a comparison discussion.
http://ski-degrees.synthasite.com/
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The toughest piste I have seen or tackled is the bump run in Val d'Isere - Epaule du Charvet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I wonder what the steepest race pistes are - per discipline. I know some downhills are crazy steep but steepest slalom pitch would be interesting.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| I wonder what the steepest race pistes are - per discipline. I know some downhills are crazy steep but steepest slalom pitch would be interesting. |
The first thing that rings to mind is the Birds of Prey course at Beaver Creek and the Hahnenkamm Streif Course at Kitzbuhel. Do either have very steep pitches?
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You know it makes sense.
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skiking4, that site is a nice bit of work. Keep it up! (but head west  )
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| skiking4, that site is a nice bit of work. Keep it up! (but head west ) |
The west will come... eventually... aka awhiles from now lol...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rich wrote: |
| stoatsbrother, I'll do a 180 on this one, confused by the dashed black, not a convention used in Europe. |
I think you will find it quite common in Europe. A dashed line on the piste map normally means an "itinerary", which is a recognised run that is not groomed (and not always avalanche protected, although usually they are).
The real confusion for me is that in North America, everything marked is a "trail", which may be groomed or ungroomed, while in Europe "grooming" is called "pisteing" and pisted (at least sometimes) runs are generally what are called pistes, with unpisted ones being called itineraries.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Skier's right under the lift on Mont Fort, Verbier anyone?
Although the comment about the home run is spot on. Skiied MF a couple of times yesterday with a friend who is a good intermediate level skier - he did fine on there with just a couple of wobbles at the top, then got completely wiped out by a snowboarder about 100m from the lift station on the blue run home
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| The toughest piste I have seen or tackled is the bump run in Val d'Isere - Epaule du Charvet. |
In April an avalanche blocked the blue run at the side of it. I found myself at the top of Epaule with my daughter (9) and the lift closed. We had to ski this to get down to the Chalet. It was Holly's first black run! But she made it with care. Slushy conditions made it worse. But I still think the Grand Coulier in Corcheval is more committing if you fall.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Conditions must be so key. The hardest piste I have skiied was the Sache in Tignes that runs from near the Aquille Percee down to Tignes Les Brevieres.
It was March and there was loads of snow and we had been skiing the black Face, Epaule de Charvet and Trolles in the Espace Killy no probs but the Sache was something else. The top section was only like a blue but hadn't been pisted in a while so it was mogulled and off-pistey and this knackered our weedy legs nicely before we got to the relatively short tricky bit which was narrow, steep with monster moguls, an adverse camber and a nice patch of black ice. It was decorated with knock kneed skiers perched atop moguls and down the edges making it even more challenging. Most of the skiers on this section merely got down it and we were firmly in this category. I only saw 2 skiers "ski it" as in look comfortable and controlled.
I would hesitate before doing it again without the magic feather of an instructor as while I made it down I felt I could easily have been one of the fallers. I think that conditions could often be worse in snow droughts and would hate to find this out the hard way.
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one of the main problems with le tunnel is the traffic!! also alot aof peopel head through the tunnel without thinking of whats on the other side, so you left with a few people heading down in front of you who arn't up to the challenge!! not claiming to be up to it myself but that narrow bit at the start doesn't get any easier when your avoiding skiis and poles!
a great run though! really tests your ability... especially with carvers stuck to your feet!
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The Mausfalle on the Streif is probably the toughest (and also mercifully one of the shortest) runs I've done, ice moguls most of the way, strange mixture of fall lines, very tricky, but it's length made it much less unpleasant than easier tough runs I've done.
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| richmond wrote: |
| The Mausfalle on the Streif is probably the toughest (and also mercifully one of the shortest) runs I've done, ice moguls most of the way, strange mixture of fall lines, very tricky, but it's length made it much less unpleasant than easier tough runs I've done. |
From the pics I've seen, my estimate is it's about in the upper 30s degrees?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skiking4, the only piste I've skied on of which I know the pitch is Direttisssima in Kitzbuhel, which is (or claims to be) 70%, 35 degs; I'd guess that Mausfalle is a bit less steep overall, but I could easily be wrong. It's probably steeper at the top and less steep at the bottom, where the slope is relatively gentle. The problem is, or was when I skied (or rather, skidded largely sideways down) Mausfalle, that there are icy moguls the size of small cottages all over it. (Direttissima is very user friendly as it's reasonably wide and groomed.)
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richmond, thanks for the info. Can't wait to get up there during half term!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Highline at Vail is the only run that has ever caused me to hyperventilate - it's not the steepest pitch I've skied, but it was 500+ vertical metres of continuous huge moguls on a 35 degree or so pitch at 3,000 metres altitude. It just wears you down in a way that the short steep pitches referred to above can't match.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| We need Easy Gully put on the Nevis Range Piste Map, but climbers would get upset, plus the name could be asking for trouble! |
Easy Gully is (or was) on the Nevis Range piste map, marked as a yellow off-piste run along with Summit Gully and Spikes. I've ridden all 3. Easy Gully is certainly steep and intimidating, but it's pretty wide and really not that hard. The other 2 are pretty straight-forward.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| The toughest piste I have seen or tackled is the bump run in Val d'Isere - Epaule du Charvet. |
Frosty, same here. Got caught out thinking I was heading towards a blue on my board after a ton of fondue and fizzy pop. The moguls were the size of Everest and K2 put together and the gaps inbetween had their own microclimate they were that deep!!! I made tha down partly on my bum, partly barndooring it - 100% cream crackered beyond belief.
Corbet's Colouir - nothing compared to that!! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| rich wrote: |
| stoatsbrother, I'll do a 180 on this one, confused by the dashed black, not a convention used in Europe. |
On N American trail maps, a dashed black often means double black diamond, and solid black line means single black. Not all resorts do this, though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| pisted (at least sometimes) runs are generally what are called pistes, with unpisted ones being called itineraries. |
This was not always the case. It seems many resorts have re-classified (unpisted) black runs to itineraries in recent years, probably for liability reasons.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="Specialman"]
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Corbet's Colouir - nothing compared to that!! |
Um, ever seen S&S couloir?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's a rumour that the Couloir Tournier, Meribel (the drop immediately to the left as you begin down the path to the Grand Couloir) may become a black run sometime after 2010, once the replacement of the Burgin-Saulire gondola is completed. I sincerely hope not, I love it the way it is, but if it ever becomes "a piste", I'd imagine that it would be more difficult than the GC as it seems a little steeper, substantially narrower in places, and generally has less snow cover.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As Martin Bell says dashed black line in many US resorts = double black diamond. In Jackson these runs are definately not itineraries and are official runs IMO. They are not back or side country like an itinerary in France for example. Those have zero controls in place and you are 100% at your own risk. The fact that the avalanche happened in JH is another matter altogether and just highlights the serious terrain they have within a few slides of a lift without any need to hike.
I suppose this thread is very different depending on your ability and everyone being so varied in that department has different opinions. Bottom line is that none of the European pistes come close to the technical nature of many US double black diamonds runs that can have the requirement to get air just to either enter or get to the bottom !!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| scrubyjoe wrote: |
| I went down Le Tunnel in ADH 2 days ago and wow that thing is serious stuff. Moguls bigger than the mountain itself and wicked narrow at the top!! I have heard it called the 2nd hardest run in the Alps..... didnt hear what the hardest one is. |
My 13 yr old and 14 yr old were taken down Le Tunnel the other day. By an Instructor - not by me - far too scared. When asked how it was we got the usual teenage `s`alright` - and that was that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's a better question for this thread FOR DISCUSSION:
What has harder pistes: East Coast US/Canada vs. Europe?
No off-piste, just pistes. And this is a friendly discussion for fun, so it's not one of those things where someone starts a riot saying that this is a stupid thread and that anyone who posts in it is idiots becuase there is no hardest piste.
So, to kick off the new discussion, I will say this as a start:
East: Worst (yes, worst) snow. Shorter runs. Generally more ungroomed. Narrower runs. Below treeline.
Europe: Wider runs, long long runs, generally groomed, above treeline.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| stevomcd wrote: |
| Winterhighland wrote: |
| We need Easy Gully put on the Nevis Range Piste Map, but climbers would get upset, plus the name could be asking for trouble! |
Easy Gully is (or was) on the Nevis Range piste map, marked as a yellow off-piste run along with Summit Gully and Spikes. I've ridden all 3. Easy Gully is certainly steep and intimidating, but it's pretty wide and really not that hard. The other 2 are pretty straight-forward. |
Enjoy. I wouldn't get too excited about the Mausfalle or the Strief in general; some or all of the itinerary sections, that is, the steep bits, are likely to be shut, and they are mercifully short anyway. The rest of the Strief is basically a road with a a few short red pitches. Kitzbuhel overall is a great place, although the skiing is not in general challenging. Very pretty, lots of pubs on the slopes.
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Remember going valiantly past the "Good Skiers only" sign at the beginning of Epaule du Charvet. Was very steep but not as bumpy as described here (perhaps because it was early morning). Challenging but nowhere near as difficult as the black Foret run on the far left side of Val d'Isere. Poor cover, huge moguls and icy as hell...by far the toughest thing I have ever skied. yet to try Sache and Silene...next time!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Patch,
I don't think the Couloir Tournier is much more difficult than the Gd Couloir, the only real issue is the generally thin snow cover at the top that forces you to be a little creative in getting round the rocks. I doubt it will be a marked run for that reason.
I really like the Tournier too. I think my single best run ever was as the sun set behind Meribel in early Jan on a cold, dry powder day. Thermals were causing powder to rise up in the rays of the setting sun as I dropped in and left nice tracks all the way down the Tournier. Bliss.
When I worked a season in Courchevel (ahem, 93/94) two other couloirs on the Courchevel side were marked runs. One under the cable car was called (imaginatively) Sous le Telecabine, the other was between there and the Gd Couloir but I can't remember the name. Sous le Tele is significantly steeper than either the Gd Couloir or the Tournier. Last time I was in the 3V they had been taken off the piste map.
J
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FAQ
Found the Saddle bad enough the first time...
