 Poster: A snowHead
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OK - have been sking now for 7 years , progressed nicely from the snowploughs to actually linking turns
can get down most slopes but mainly folowing the cross all over the slopes approach - which mainly
seems to involve keeping weight on the lower ski to turn.
Having looked at the more advanced skiers they all seem to shoot down the slope in basically a straight line
swinging from side to side - this looks to me like the weight is just moving from side to side as you dont
really spend time on the ski long enough
so the question is
if i want to progress into the faster swinging from side to side with more parallel skis what do i do
- it seems to me that the weight will be on the inner ski ? or have i git that wrong from looking
thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You need to learn to carve, that's what they're doing... someone in the know will be along soon to explain how it's done but I'd advise lessons! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gazza2, how quickly you make your turns doesn't really depend on how much weight you have on your inner or outer leg. Weight distribution should be a response to however much grip you need in order to complete the turn that you want to make, rather than a fixed proportion regardless of what you are doing.
You are right to say that a good skier will look like their weight is swinging from side to side. You don't really want any "dead time" between turns, so you shouldn't be looking to traverse across the hill when skiing like that. You should aim to seamlessly link your turns with no delay between them. Therefore to make lots of quick, short radius turns you simply "let go" of your turn very early and bang straight into the next one; to make long radius turns you "hang on" to the turn for longer before starting the next one. The main point to be thinking of is "always be turning" rather than focusing on the weight/pressure distribution of your legs.
A couple of hours of private lessons I'm sure would help you make quick progress with this.
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Actually once you get the confidence to do it, going from one turn directly into the next is easier because you use the rebound from the last turn to initiate the new one.
Carved turns are mostly produced by getting the skis on edge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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cheers thats what i thought just got to learn to swing a bit from edge to edge i guess
thats for this year then !!
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| Yoda wrote: |
The skier's "weight" is not being swung anywhere  |
In a sense, often the opposite. You're often trying to keep your centre of mass going straight down the hill - rather than mess around with it going (20 feet) side to side.
rob@rar's point is a good one. Another way of looking at his point is that if you want to ski "quicker" then a good first step is to ski the same speed, but for a shorter distance. Do that and your rate of progress down the hill (note - not necessarily speed - if you get my sense) will be quicker.
If you keep traversing 20 feet one way and then 20 feet the other then you've just travelled 40 feet more than you had to. Try reducing it to 10 feet; then 5 feet; then 3 feet; then 2 feet; then 1 foot...then nothing.
As snowball says, once you do that your skis start doing some of the work for you and it all magically becomes easier.
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| Quote: |
Another way of looking at his point is that if you want to ski "quicker" then a good first step is to ski the same speed, but for a shorter distance.
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But if you want to make the most of your uplift, you don't necessarily want to get down the hill as fast as possible; it's speed over the snow which is most fun. So - carving in big S shaped turns! An "ordinary" skier going in very short turns down a moderately steep piste - say a nice long cruising red - will probably be travelling across the snow a lot slower than someone carving big turns even if they both get to the bottom at the same time. (I say "ordinary" skier because we know that downhill racers can take the shortest line to the bottom, but that's not the way for most of us!).
Depends how you define speed, I suppose.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As Yoda is kind of saying, the skier's upper body is almost static. It's their legs and skis that are swinging from side to side underneath. Especially with very short turns. It's a bit different with longer radius turns as their upper body turns more to follow the line of trajectory. Perhaps a bit simplistic, but that's how I view it.
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gazza2, sounds like you may be rotating/sweeping your skis round to turn, then shooting off across the slope to the other side? In most situations, good skiers usually choose to turn their skis with less rotation and more (appropriately directed) pressure on their skis, and specifically on the ski to the outside of the new turn. This gets the ski to bend and turns the ski and skier, ready for the next turn. It's then important to keep your weight relatively forwards too as otherwise you'll propel the skis forwards from underneath you, while you ride their tails!
The best solution is to get some lessons, preferably from a British ski school/instructor or if you can afford it a specialist performance training outfit like http://www.alpinecoaching.co.uk/ , http://www.gravitysnowsports.co.uk/ or http://www.snoworks.co.uk/
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Depends how you define speed, I suppose. |
Indeed. There's lots of fun do be had from doing short radius turns straight down the fall line. Actual speed might not be too high, but the challenge of managing the pressures that build up, getting the timing absolutely right, sweeping your feet underneath and across you.. All great fun.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| slikedges wrote: |
In most situations, good skiers usually choose to turn their skis with less rotation and more (appropriately directed) pressure on their skis, and specifically on the ski to the outside of the new turn. This gets the ski to bend and turns the ski and skier, ready for the next turn.
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Interesting comments. I spent most of last season concentrating on keeping more weight/pressure on the inside ski, particularly at the start of each turn. That's not to say I don't have more absolute pressure on the outside ski, just that I've been trying to achieve a more even weight distribution to make more use of the inside ski during the turn. I picked that up from Warren Smith DVDs and a few lessons.
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gazza2,
Quickest way is shorten the radiuys of your turns but most importantly keep yourself in control. Try to remove the rotary movment from your parallel turns adn this will help with learning carving and short radius turns
Learn to do Short radius turns. Blending Carving,rotary movment and perssure managment on the skis while keeping the body facing down the fall line.
Carving removing rotary movment from your feet and turning through angulating the body and for and aft movment on the skis. Here you will be skiing on the edges of the ski rather than the base.
All of the above are best leant with an instructor and remember it DOWNHILL not (across the mountain) skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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All good information - quite looking forward to the progression ( hopefully minus all the ineviatable crashes)
I have found the Warren Smith Vids onlin - and they have helped to clarify a bit more.
I think i need to give it a good go - usually when drifting around on the slope I am quite happy with weight on the upper ski
as well as the lower so i am hoping it will be a case of smaller turns and more downhill !!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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uktrailmonster, for an advanced skier trying to improve their carving what you're saying sounds on the nail, though I've been taught 90:10 phase I, 70:30 phase II, 50:50 phase III (and to all the pedants, no I have not and will not be bothering to measure this, yes they are crudely indicative and subject to huge variations so that I'm only deluding myself, e&oe etc). However even for advanced skiers railing and carving are only appropriate a minority of the time. The rest of the time I need an appropriate blend of all three turning tools for which on pisted terrain at least I want to be focussing my weight on the outside ski. Unless possessing the technical competence to properly employ the inside ski whilst trying to execute an almost all edge turn, I think that any emphasis on pressuring the inside ski is probably going to be counterproductive.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Ordhan wrote: |
| Carving removing rotary movment from your feet |
And once you've learnt to do that, you have to learn how to put the rotatory pressure back on the skis again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| gazza2 wrote: |
| I have found the Warren Smith Vids online - and they have helped to clarify a bit more. |
gazza2 did you find the Vids on Warren's own website, or the likes of YouTube?
I'm in a very similar situation to gazza2 - in a position where I want to try new stuff, techniques, so that I become a more 'rounded' skier - that round as in skills rather than stature 
How much can you genuinely gain from watching a DVD, reading a book? - ok, it's a start, but is there no substitute for time with a good instructor? Contemplating a few private lessons at the Snowdome but they are £££s - may be if I get the basics from a vid/book this will be a better way of spending my hard earned....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sleipnir, for me vids and books are a great adjunct but won't be a substitute for a good teacher. How about pvt lessons when you next go away skiing on a real mountain? Or do Tamworth do higher level group lessons? MK for instance has 'level 5' lessons, SNO!coach and adult performance coaching sessions, all essentially higher level group lessons at reasonable prices.
edited to clarify
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 12-12-08 14:59; edited 2 times in total
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| Sleipnir wrote: |
| but is there no substitute for time with a good instructor? Contemplating a few private lessons at the Snowdome but they are £££s - may be if I get the basics from a vid/book this will be a better way of spending my hard earned.... |
No I don't think there is a substitute for time with a good instructor. Depending on your learning style, reading books or watching DVDs might help your theoretical understanding of how skiing works, but I think there is a danger that you can pick up a couple of exercises or drills which are either not suitable for what you're trying to do, or you perform them without any feedback and don't make any improvements to your skiing. A good instructor will be able to see exactly what you are currently doing with your skiing, suggest what you might want to change ti improve and maybe suggest some specific drills and exercises (or just lead you to appropriate terrain) in order to develop those new skills.
Whenever I've looked at the cost of private lessons at the snowdomes I've been shocked by how expensive they were. It looked cheaper to get lessons from a fully qualified instructor in the Alps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, Spot on the money
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Thanks folks - you've pretty much confirmed my thoughts
slikedges, at Tamworth they do run a Masterclass session (Weds nights), which I regularly attend. It's certainly helped, but when you are in a large group and you want to look at something in particular, it's tricky. Also the 'Masterclass' covers such a wide range of abilities so the tution has to be tailored accordingly. Of late, they have split the numbers into two groups; the more experienced ones of us and those that have just progressed from snowplough.
One of the things I did benefit from was a session with an instructor friend who videoed me on a few runs. It was good to see yourself on film (bit of a video nasty with all of my faults). It certainly confirmed a few of my thoughts as to what I thought I was doing wrong
rob@rar, you are right about the price of lessons at the snowdomes - serious bucks! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sleipnir, The other thing a good instructor / coach can help you with is in developing your own internal feedback skills. This helps you know better "what's happening" so that you can continue to modify your technique (and feel the difference) when free skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| Sleipnir, The other thing a good instructor / coach can help you with is in developing your own internal feedback skills. This helps you know better "what's happening" so that you can continue to modify your technique (and feel the difference) when free skiing. |
Good point! I don't know how I've managed it, but I seem to have developed a bit of a feel what I think is going on with my skiing. Knowing what you are doing wrong is half the battle in my book. It just helps to get instruction with how to correct problems
When skiing (whilst videoed) it felt like I was too much on my heels. My instructor pointed out that whilst I was 'Flex and Extending' I was leaning back on the extend bit. The advice was to push off the little toe edge when initiating the turn and to lean more into the turn, nose pointing in the direction of the ski tips but off to one side.........voila, no more 'back seat'
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sleipnir, she can teach so long as she's not advertising her services and you are just paying her in kind! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Sleipnir wrote: |
| Knowing what you are doing wrong is half the battle in my book. It just helps to get instruction with how to correct problems. |
I'd caution not to think too much in terms of right or wrong, just whats best for the situation. Sometime 'wrong' things can be right !
But knowing for instance how much your skis are skidding or gripping, and as you mention, your fore / aft balance allows you to adjust accordingly.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The way I do it is to simply focus on my downhill instep. Thats my main thing
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Poster: A snowHead
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ive read most of the posts short attention span) is it not being over complicated? i would have thought that the easiest way to ski faster is just to carve, get your skis on edge for as long as possible and follow the fall line more than going across the slope? im sure thats what people will have said earlier on but just over complicating it.
Im waiting to be shot down and to be put back in my box!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gdizzle, depends whether you want to ski safely as well as fast  Fast is easy; fast without making uncomfortably close friends with a tree/cliff/poor s*d on the slope below you is a different matter
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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lol, fair enough! but just lean from one side to the other and avoid them, skiing is simple, weight forward and move your lower body from side to side but keep your skis pointing down hillish, i cant wait to get my instructors qualifications - those people i teach will feel ripped off!
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gdizzle, skis pointing down the hill means not turning, surely?
Carving at speed feels so much safer, so much so that when straight lining it I will often put in a long and very gentle turn just to keep the skis on an edge. It feels so much safer IMHO.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I thought of this the other day....
Bobsleigh's, tilting trains and roller coasters
They could explain parts of a ski turn.
The bobsleigh goes downhill and can go fast and is like the ski on an edge, much like a roller coaster.
The tilting train is running flat like a ski run and can go round corners quicker, no edge comparison but important weight shift
good, bad or ugly?
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| daehwons wrote: |
| good, bad or ugly? |
I'm struggling to see the relevance to core ski technique. I think there's a danger of focusing on the outcomes of what you do with your skis (eg leaning/tilting) rather than focusing on how you use your skis to control your line and speed down the hill.
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| gdizzle wrote: |
| move your lower body from side to side but keep your skis pointing down hillish |
A bit of a contradiction there
For me it's all about flowing from one turn to the next, gradually accelerating or slowing down as the terrain demands. Sudden changes in speed tend to break this flow and make your skiing look clumsy. Expert skiers always seem to flow effortlessly down the mountain, gradually adjusting their speed/turn radius to anticipate the upcoming terrain, changes in pitch etc.
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ho hmm oh well - i geuss i didnt really think through my comment  ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gazza2 wrote: |
| if i want to progress into the faster swinging from side to side with more parallel skis what do i do? |
Take a 2-week vacation.
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FAQ
) when I go to visit her. Can't be seen to be teaching if you haven't gone through all of the rigmarole that our French cousins require....
) - half a dozen of them on their backsides, boards in the air, wondering how the hell they are going to stand again, slap bang in the middle of the slope. Managed to avoid them all, but did take a bit of work and a few very sharp turns
