 Poster: A snowHead
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I just thought it would be useful to report back. I spoke to Dogtag at the Birmingham ski show and they said they had partners who would cover a pre-existing medical condition and it wouldn't be much extra. So armed with this information I thought I would try it. I now have their mid range annual travel policy - up to 24 days skiing - £109 + about £10 for the peace of mind of getting cover for an existing condition and it covers me and the two kids - maybe I could have got a bit cheaper if I had gone shopping round, but it was nice and easy and I got the cover I wanted at what didn't seem a bad price.
I hope this helps someone else.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well our experience with Dogtag is very different.
I got a quote for a pre existing medical condition and it more than doubled our premium!
I know that there are various levels of risk and severity etc etc but I wouldnt consider what I have as being deemed as risky as that!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have used Dogtag for a couple of seasons now, just renewed last week. I have some medical stuff that needs declared and it cost me an extra £9.49. Every time I speak to them for renewal or when I orignally bought the policy, I have found them excellent to deal with, very helpful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cobra.., Oh dear!! Obviously it depends on what you end up declaring, I guess as it should. Still its all useful info for someone else.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OK, not really about pre-existing medical, but rathe than start another thread.
What about Dogtag and off-piste without a guide? I am doing a rather last minute job of finding insurance for my son, who will be in the three valleys. He will definitely be going off piste without a guide, though he's not daft - two seasons in Val D'Isere have taught him a lot and I was impressed last year when he deemed part of our local (tame) area to be unsafe after a huge dump of snow and resisted the temptation to fling himself down there.
Dogtag says "If you are going out of bounds or outwith marked areas of the resort, you must only do so with a fully qualified local guide."
I understand the nomenclature of North American resorts and the "out of bounds" context, but I didn't find it easy to gather whether skiing off piste in a French resort would count as skiing "outwith marked areas".
Any suggestions?
The Ski Club option might be best, though as it would cost an extra £55 for him to join, it's pretty expensive as he'd need the top level of cover for the length of time he'll be out there.
Needless to say he's left everything to the last minute so Ma has taken over the responsibility for the aspect of his preparation that I feel most strongly about. He's only 31, the poor wee lad. 
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pam w, if he's earning 3000€ a month, he can afford the extra fifty quid. If he's being paid on a French contract he needs to apply to the CPAM for a Carte Vitale, and his best (and cheapest) option then is to get a Carte Neige.
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pam w, you might want to look at snowcard, at least if you choose the right level (their insurance is modular, you pay for what you need) covers you for off-piste - though you have to comply with local safety advice, whatever that may mean.
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Lizzard, it's a Brit contract I think, through the staffing agency. His salary is already predicated against his debts....including a few to me. He'll have Carte Neige as well, as it's so cheap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, I've asked for a quote from snowcard (they don't do season insurance on-line) as we've found them very good in the past. The only reason we don't still use them for our own insurance is that they are inflexible on trip length and we need 60 days.
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pam w, Direct Travel cover you for skiing off-piste without a guide. Instant confirmation too, just print out the email. Do backpacking insurance, but not sure about ski season.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, they'll cover you for a single trip of 60 days, I see, but the annual policy has a lower limit.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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one problem is the definitions. Direct travel do a long "single trip" option but he'd like the option to come back to the UK for some time during the season (at present the chalet he's working in is not by any means booked up for the season, being completely new and owned by people who are very particular about how they rent it out - it's not on the internet, for example). Also, given that fact, he's aware that he might get made redundant (!) and an annual policy with a long trip limit would be better overall (he'll be travelling a lot towards the end of the year as he's going to do a Ph D part in Australia, part in Sussex). Though if he had one of those he'd have to come back to the UK at some point...
This is mother, flapping. He'd just mozey out there and buy himself a season carte neige. And rely on the fact that we're less than two hours drive away, for much of the season, if there's a problem!
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Hmm. Direct looked good, single trip cover, till I telephoned them to clarify a question not clear on their website. Seems that as he'll be working as a cook/chef they won't cover him at all. Because of the "type of work". That wouldn't have been clear if I'd bought on line - none of the declaration questions mentioned anything about employment. It's such a minefield, this insurance lark - no doubt large numbers of us, at any given time, have policies which wouldn't actually cover us for whatever we're doing. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Talking about pre-existing medical conditions, I read in the Telegraph travel section this morning about Able2Travel who specialise in such things, as well as offering long stay policies for those aged under 70. No idea about ski cover, but it might be worth looking at if cover is a problem.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hmm. Just spoke to Dogtag. Very friendly helpful girl, but not a skier and really had no idea what I was talking about. She just said that off piste would only be covered if "local guidelines" said it was safe. I pointed out that avalanche risk warnings are never "nil". She is going to put it to underwriters and get back to me. I suggested that their FAQs should include a separate question on off-piste in Europe as the current material is very much North America focussed.
Actually I'm not bothered about avalanches (well I am, but not from an insurance point of view). More about an injury in a ordinary sort of fall off piste where avalanche warnings are a bit irrelevant. I need to just clarify whether the SCGB underwriters are OK with people doing the very hazardous work of being a cook.
I'm glad I don't have a Dogtag policy, given their very unclear guidance.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, I have an e mail somewhere - I think - from one of the Directors of Dogtag from a few years ago - when I raised exactly the same issue. I was looking at whether they covered lift-accessed back country - or that requiring a short hike and they seemed to say yes. I can try and dig out the e mail of you want - and I think I may have cut and paste it into a thread here in the past that you might be able to search for.
I am now back with the SKGB policy...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, Our thoughts entirely...Dogtag sound good from a customer services point of view but unless they can clarify their off piste we'll be going elsewhere. Currently looking at Fogg which seems to have good off piste cover...might be worth you taking a look at them? http://www.fogginsure.co.uk/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Helen Beaumont, that's advertorial, bear in mind.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, true, but there is mention of an skgb seasonal policy, so thought it might just cover a chef.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, A lot of the Insurance companies are like Direct Insurance in that they will not offer cover if you are working. My daughter got cover from the companies who offer cover to people doing gap years.
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riverman, Direct Travel do a gap year policy, but ridiculously exclude winter sports from it.
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Well it was the natives site which initially put the idea of dogtag in my mind. I wonder how many guys out there don't really know whether they're covered off piste or not? When I asked, on the phone, it was rather as though nobody had ever asked them that before!
stoatsbrother, thanks. I can't find it on a search, but I'm expecting something back from their underwriters (their annual policy was otherwise quite a good bet). If you can find your email easily, fine. But don't spend any great time on it. I'll post when I have a response.
The Fogg annual insurance is limited to 31 days trips, and max 17 days skiing in any trip, and their single trip premiums for such a long trip are not competitive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, I see from the previous post that Direct travel would not offer work cover on a single trip policy.
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pam w, I'm having a similar dilema, I've used Dogtag for the last few years and was about to renew my policy, however having read their off piste statement it's just far too vague. I will be skiing off piste and don't want any insurance problems.
I've now narrowed my options down to snocard or using the British Mountaineering Councils insurance which to me seems the most comprehensive of the lot covering me not only for my skiing but my rock and ice climbing as well. It may be worth you having a look at their insurance policys, but you do have to pay a membership fee though!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I seem to recall that the BMC insurance at one time covered all sorts of hairy rsed off piste but didn't cover on-piste skiing (which is far more dangerous of course so you can see their point). I think that has changed now though
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dog tag off piste statement, clearer than any other insurance company.
| Quote: |
Q. Do you cover Off Piste Skiing and what is the definition of Off Piste?
A.Off-piste is defined as venturing over ungroomed and unmarked slopes but within the ski area or resort boundary, i.e the area covered by ski patrollers or managed by the resort. Most resorts designate off-piste areas but if you are uncertain about a particular area, do not go there.
Some people understand off piste (or backcountry) skiing or boarding to mean 'going out of bounds', i.e. outwith the resort. If you are going out of bounds or outwith marked areas of the resort, you must only do so with a fully qualified local guide. Even some areas within a resort may be considered out of bounds because they are hazardous. In some parts of North America, going out of bounds contravenes local law and you may face arrest.
It is your responsibility to ensure that on any particular day you are aware of and obey local advice, information and instructions given by the resort authorities and that you obey any signs and information you encounter on the mountain. If a section is marked 'closed' there will be a very good reason for it (e.g. high avalanche danger) and ignoring such signs or advice may invalidate your cover. You should be aware that under the terms of cover, needless self-exposure to peril except in an endeavor to save human life may invalidate your cover. |
http://www.dogtag.co.uk/faq
So off piste in the resort covered. Off piste outside of the resort covered if you have a fully qualified local guide.
pam w, I have always found the people on the phone at Dogtag very helpful indeed. At least they answer the phhone another so called specialist insurere that I have used rarely answered the phone and took a week to answer an e-mail 
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homphomp, just been looking at Fogg's Annual Policy. It includes off-piste ..... provided (amongst other things) that you don't ski in an avalanche risk area. As there is almost always an avalanche risk warning of some sort, that looks like quite a get-out clause to me. I'm sticking with snowcard.
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, Yep, that's one of the reasons I changed frpm Fogg to Dogtag. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowaddict wrote: |
| Have used Dogtag for a couple of seasons now, just renewed last week. I have some medical stuff that needs declared and it cost me an extra £9.49. Every time I speak to them for renewal or when I orignally bought the policy, I have found them excellent to deal with, very helpful. |
Very topical topic. We've been with Dogtag for about three years and I have to declare a condition on my wife's behalf and like you always been of the level suggested above, I do have to renew in the next couple of days so it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out - having said that never been a problem in the past! Will report back.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
the area covered by ski patrollers or managed by the resort
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Boredsurfing, sorry, but I don't think it's at all clear what this means in a European context. What is the area "covered by ski patrollers" or "managed by the resort" in, say, the Espace Killy?
As for the Dogtag statement being clearer than any other insurance, I couldn't agree less. The schedule for the SCGB policy says that winter sports cover includes "off piste skiing/snowboarding".
That's what I call a clear statement!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, e mail text from Mike Welby - Director - Dogtag - April 2007 - I really hope he would not mind me posting this here - please do not consider this legally binding, and anyone reading this should make their own enquiries.
Firstly though, I can confirm that you are covered to ski off piste
without a guide.
As you know from comments made on various forums, the definition of "off
piste" varies, causes much debate and is considered to be a grey area.
It causes much debate here too - we know what we mean by off piste when
we go skiing (on either side of the Atlantic) but conveying that in a
legal wording acceptable to underwriters isn't so straightforward. The
intention of our wording is really to differentiate between "off piste"
and "way off piste" but we'll be revisiting it now as, clearly, it isn't
perfect. The spirit of it is that established off piste ski routes
accessed via a resort's lift system would be considered OK (and we'd
recommend taking a guide but not be insistant about it provided you're
acting responsibly and not putting yourself in harms way, ignoring
avalanche warnings etc). Off piste areas within the ski area boundary,
crossing between pistes also OK.
Access to terrain via helicopter would be covered if you have our Sport+
level.
Access to non-lift served terrain using ski mountaineering equipment
would require our Extreme level of cover.
I'll be looking hard at the wording over the next week and, once signed
off by underwriters, it'll be changed.
Many thanks again for airing your concerns. Interestingly enough,
despite having many thousands of customers for whom the off piste
definition should be important, you are the first to mention it!
Now this may have all changed now - things move fast. The reason I am with SCGB now is because for 24-25 days a year - including the US - it worked out cheaper.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I'll be looking hard at the wording over the next week and, once signed
off by underwriters, it'll be changed.
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Thanks for quoting that. But the wording doesn't seem to have been changed. The definition given here - off piste served by the resort's lift system, or between pistes, is probably good enough for most of us - but it's worrying that that has not been incorporated into the wording. And that the friendly operator I spoke to on Saturday couldn't clarify at all.
I hope to get something from Dogtag early in the week, as I have to make a purchasing decision soon; my son's off on Thursday (though I am carrying most of his gear out with me a week later, so he's not about to launch himself down some couloir; he'll be working his socks off for the first week).
It seems bizarre that so few people have questioned a policy which is recommended, on Natives, as particularly suitable for seasonnaires. How many of them are going to stick to the piste?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stevew wrote: |
| snowaddict wrote: |
| Have used Dogtag for a couple of seasons now, just renewed last week. I have some medical stuff that needs declared and it cost me an extra £9.49. Every time I speak to them for renewal or when I orignally bought the policy, I have found them excellent to deal with, very helpful. |
Very topical topic. We've been with Dogtag for about three years and I have to declare a condition on my wife's behalf and like you always been of the level suggested above, I do have to renew in the next couple of days so it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out - having said that never been a problem in the past! Will report back. |
Well I've renewed today and only had to pay £9.49 again for my wife's declarable condition, relatively painful process, particularly as I had last years documentation to crib from. All insured again for next year - happy!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stevew, but will you be going off piste? And if so, are you confident that you'll be covered? I rang them again today and was told there should be a reply from underwriters tomorrow sometime. Again, a helpful and polite lad on the phone, but not a skier and clearly didn't really understand why I was not content with his explanation that off piste was covered as long as it complied with "the advice of the local ski patrol".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| achilles, Yep, that's one of the reasons I changed frpm Fogg to Dogtag. |
But the Dogtag statement is as clear as mud and to judge by this thread they've been promising to clarify since as long ago as 2007 and they haven't managed it yet!! I'll make some enquiries of Fogg....but I have to say that I might have to kick them into touch too! Is there any insurance company out there that has a clear statment on off piste cover, allows you to ski for several weeks each season, charges a sensible premium and actually treats you reaonably if you have the misfortune to make a claim? So far the answer seems to be no!
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| pam w wrote: |
| stevew, but will you be going off piste? And if so, are you confident that you'll be covered? I rang them again today and was told there should be a reply from underwriters tomorrow sometime. Again, a helpful and polite lad on the phone, but not a skier and clearly didn't really understand why I was not content with his explanation that off piste was covered as long as it complied with "the advice of the local ski patrol". |
Only a little probably (!!) but probably within their definition of off piste
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| Quote: |
probably within their definition of off piste
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the trouble is that their definition would exclude anything but groomed runs, in a European resort. I don't actually think that's what they mean (see stoatsbrother's quote above) but it is what their FAQ says. When I get a response from underwriters I'll post it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
probably within their definition of off piste
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the trouble is that their definition would exclude anything but groomed runs, in a European resort. I don't actually think that's what they mean (see stoatsbrother's quote above) but it is what their FAQ says. When I get a response from underwriters I'll post it. |
Having re-read it I'd tend to agree that it's more woolly than last years on which I was basing my comments. Having said that any off piste I'll be doing I've no doubt will be in bounds and between runs type of stuff.
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Still nothing from Dogtag underwriters despite two telephone conversations with their operators who, whilst being very polite and trying to helpful, were not skiers and didn't know what I was talking about.
Would strongly advise any Snowheads with Dogtag insurance who expect to ski off piste in Europe to seek clarification and get written confirmation of the conditions under which they would be covered if skiing off marked pistes in a European resort.
And if Snowheads are going to advertise Dogtag insurance, perhaps this could be followed up centrally?
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FAQ
