 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well spotted Whitegold.
Full report here (825KB PDF file).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I reckon I know some of those in photos ??
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| This data was supported by other industry reports and information. |
Unfortunately I suspect that much of the data/info is a re-gurgitation of a very-flawed report from a tour company, if so it's pretty worthless.
Would a SCGB member mind e-mailing the CEO ? If she confirms that the numbers come from a company beginning with 'N' .. I can prove they are wrong.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, About 9 months ago .. iirc .. but yes I suspect the same nonsense .. havent bothered checking, but for SCGB to answer if they want .. its just that the absolute numbers look the same.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Agenterre, If both reports are acurate then I guess both results would be the same 
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Boredsurfing, Absolutely .. but the one to which you refer even has mathematical errors in it .. so it is badly wrong .. let alone its 'assumptions'.
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I wonder what's included in the price of a 'snowsports holiday'. The price looks low to me, assuming flights, transfers, accommodation, travel insurance and lift passes are included.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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£700 on their vacation basics
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achilles, that's just the wine and genepi 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The funniest thing is that a significant portion of people on here are not skiers/boarders in the eyes of the travel industry and government tourism statistics, but those who do one recreational week every few years are
2% increase in internet bookings? I expect privately arranged ski/snowboard trips out strip that by some margin.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Yoda wrote: |
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£700 on their vacation basics
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achilles, that's just the wine and genepi |
How dare you! It's for fluffy scarves and cute little backpacks
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You know it makes sense.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
I reckon I know some of those in photos ??
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| This data was supported by other industry reports and information. |
Unfortunately I suspect that much of the data/info is a re-gurgitation of a very-flawed report from a tour company, if so it's pretty worthless.
Would a SCGB member mind e-mailing the CEO ? If she confirms that the numbers come from a company beginning with 'N' .. I can prove they are wrong. |
If by "a company beginning with 'N'" you mean Neilsen, then that is not the TO, but the business statistics company, and they know as much about gathering such statistics as anybody.
If, on the other hand, you are talking about the Crystal Report (company begins with 'C'  ), then I can see your point, although even then, do you have better figures?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Whilst it's great to see scgb trying to pull some more facts / data together, I just think there a few things that I would thing are wrong with those stats event taking into account that we're not the aveage 'punter' - for example: -
a) They don't even start by defining the market - what is there 1,353,000 made up of - people going for 1 week or more - what about those travelling independently and staying for a long time (like I will and no doubt many others would). What about people like holidayloverxxx and they're day trip to les arcs. If you don't define the market up front then the rest of the report is questionable.
b) I'm not convince about the source data - I took 3 trips in 07 / '08 and I can't see how any of those would have made it onto the radar scope of the report. 2x self booked shorter trips - classic 'easyjet or similar', 'hire cars' and local arranged accommodation. The third trip was via a TO (not crystal) and as the industry data was 06/07 then it wouldn't appear. Whilst I would hope that the scottish data is more accurate - it's not like you need a t/o to get you to scotland.
c) 47% of bookings are over the phone - reckon that might well be true for crystal but thats not exactly representative of the market as a whole. Personally I would imagine at least 50% of bookings to be done via the internet, whether that be website or email and the rest being done by other methods - not quite sure what a ski 'agency' is though?
d) Do 7 day stays really take up 76% of the market? OK so for the majority of us the it's that week long trip or multiples thereof, but increasingly I and friends end up going for 3/4/5 days
e) How do they get their 'resort' information - again if that's just from crystal then its an incredibly biased sample. Is Aspen really the most popular resort in the US for UK visitors? Is La Plagne really the 2nd most popular resort.
f) Snowboarders are only 17% of the travellers - again that seems an unusually low figure. OK so being 30 something I tend to go on trips with other 30 somethings, and I would imagine that younger clientele tend to board more proportinately than ski but but I would say on my 3 trips the %'ge boarders have been at leadt around 40%
If they've got over 130 affiliated ski holiday companies, then why aren't they using stats from at least 50% of those companies rather than just one. OK so I know it's not the most interesting thing to do as a ski-co, but I'm sure you'd be interested in understanding the overall market size as much as your competitors. By sharing anonymised information you can gain a better understanding of the market potential for your product.
thoughts/comments
bb
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't know the full extent of the field that SCGB gather their data from, but I know that we submitted our stats for their use. Whilst ours must bear little relevance in comparison with the giants that are Crystal and Neilson I was still happy to know that infomation from small companies is included and valued. I think with any statistical overview you have to accept that it can never be a 'perfect' but I do think that with that in mind this forms a very interesting and useful general anaylsis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bertie bassett,
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e) How do they get their 'resort' information - again if that's just from crystal then its an incredibly biased sample. Is Aspen really the most popular resort in the US for UK visitors? Is La Plagne really the 2nd most popular resort.
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I think you'll find that those are the top 5 resorts (according to whatever criteria) in ALPHABETICAL order 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
Whilst it's great to see scgb trying to pull some more facts / data together, I just think there a few things that I would thing are wrong with those stats event taking into account that we're not the aveage 'punter' - for example: -
a) They don't even start by defining the market - what is there 1,353,000 made up of - people going for 1 week or more - what about those travelling independently and staying for a long time (like I will and no doubt many others would). What about people like holidayloverxxx and they're day trip to les arcs. If you don't define the market up front then the rest of the report is questionable.
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True, but that is only an overview report, and if you look at page 6, they do have the split of lengths into weekend, 7 days, 14 days and "other".
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b) I'm not convince about the source data - I took 3 trips in 07 / '08 and I can't see how any of those would have made it onto the radar scope of the report. 2x self booked shorter trips - classic 'easyjet or similar', 'hire cars' and local arranged accommodation. The third trip was via a TO (not crystal) and as the industry data was 06/07 then it wouldn't appear. Whilst I would hope that the scottish data is more accurate - it's not like you need a t/o to get you to scotland.
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I'm fairly sure that the 2006/07 on the webpage with the link to the report was a misprint, and they really meant 2007/08.
And if your data wuoldn't have been within the scope, then neither would any other "independent" travel data. While I have no idea how they compile the data for "independent" travel, they must have some acceptable way of getting it, or they wouldn't publich figures at all.
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c) 47% of bookings are over the phone - reckon that might well be true for crystal but thats not exactly representative of the market as a whole. Personally I would imagine at least 50% of bookings to be done via the internet, whether that be website or email and the rest being done by other methods - not quite sure what a ski 'agency' is though?
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I would be very surprised if 50% of bookings overall are done over the internet, although I'm sure the % is increasing. I assume a "ski agency" is one such as IGLU or Ifyouski or similar.
If you are mentioning Crystal specifically due to the Crystal Ski report being part of the data, that is an invalid assumption, because that report takes data from all the TO's and agencies.
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d) Do 7 day stays really take up 76% of the market? OK so for the majority of us the it's that week long trip or multiples thereof, but increasingly I and friends end up going for 3/4/5 days
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I'm a little surprised it is that low, TBH.
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e) How do they get their 'resort' information - again if that's just from crystal then its an incredibly biased sample. Is Aspen really the most popular resort in the US for UK visitors? Is La Plagne really the 2nd most popular resort.
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Again, none of the information comes just from the Crystal TO.
And that page is showing the top 5 for each country but not in oprder of popularity, each country's entries are ordered alphabetically.
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f) Snowboarders are only 17% of the travellers - again that seems an unusually low figure. OK so being 30 something I tend to go on trips with other 30 somethings, and I would imagine that younger clientele tend to board more proportinately than ski but but I would say on my 3 trips the %'ge boarders have been at leadt around 40%
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How can you tell?
It is still a fairly small % of UK snow holidaymakers who take their own equipment.
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If they've got over 130 affiliated ski holiday companies, then why aren't they using stats from at least 50% of those companies rather than just one.
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Why on earth do you think they might only be using information from just one?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the general thrust of the SCGB report is correct.
A few definitions may need tightening up, and some stats look odd, but it mostly passes the smelltest.
Most Brits go to France, stay in a chalet or hotel, spend a few hundred quid and use two planks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Whitegold, You think ? .. Hallelujah!
It does NOT past the "Smell-Test" for those of us born-with-a-brain ... in fact your assertion is your normal Whitegold, bollox.
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| Most Brits go to France, stay in a chalet or hotel, spend a few hundred quid and use two planks. |
BIG HALLELUJAH .. earth-shattering !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shite, i'm of to France to live in a Chalet and sell planks for a few hundred quid. Show me the money!!!
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FAQ
