Most difficult graded run

A snowHead

Just wondered about people's opinions on this. Maybe split into Europe vs Rest of the World.

I did do a quick search but nothing obvious appeared just in case it's been done to death already.

Note that it must be a on-piste run. Also what constitutes difficulty ? Conditions, length, steepness ?

A snowHead

I don't know if there's been a thread on this, but it's been discussed a lot. My personal "ah, so it seems that I'm a beginner after all" moment, occurred on the Tunnel in Alpe d'Hueze (that thought came after I had recovered myself and my equipment, which took a while). As to what constitutes difficulty, conditions and steepness are always relevant, length isn't IMV - you can usually stop for a rest somewhere. Width of piste is an issue if your turns do not have cast iron reliability.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The steepest European runs seem mostly to have been turned into itineraries. (Even the Grande Couloir in Courchevel I think?)
Most of the steep stuff is off-piste.

Perhaps this leaves the USA/Canada with the steepest?
I notice that even Corbets Couloir is marked with a dotted black line on the map (not sure what that means).

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The Wall in PDS is about the hardest thing I have done, that and Face in Val when it was mainly ice.

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Surely a quick gander at any resorts marketing bumph will reveal that they all host the steepest, longest piste in the World?

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The Tunnel may develop things like suncrust in the right (or indeed wrong) circumstances. It isn't particularly steep or tricky but its ability to develop novelty snow puts it in another bracket to most other black runs.

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snowball, Corbets is a double black - like tower 3 , expert and alta chutes etc etc. dotted on that map means double black.

After all it is free

stoatsbrother, well nothing even close to that steep would be a piste in Europe. But many double black diamonds are the same as European blacks, so the category seems very wide.
However Corbets couldn't be groomed, so suely it would have to be an itinerary at best in Europe.

Having skied Alta Chutes (but didn't have the balls for Corbetts), I might have said that was the most difficult run I've ever done but that was many years ago and I'm sure I've improved. I skied most of the double blacks on Lake Louise fairly recently and apart from a bit of nerves regarding the objective danger (i.e. the consequences of falling when there's rocks below) I found them fairly comfortable. What I'd like to have is someone's opinion who's skiied Jackson & Lake Louise in short succession for a comparison

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Sorry, I meant on-piste. Yeah, I guess I've skied steeper off-piste. Or at least I got down. Whether it classed as skiing is another matter wink

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i haven't skied any marked runs in Europe which are as steep as some of the lines off Spanky's Ladder in Whistler

You know it makes sense.

Moving version http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/14 wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Or another (if you wait, a longer version follows)

A snowHead

A snowHead

i found the steeps at lake louise not as much of a challenge as the bumf would have you believe. there's a couple of really tricky lines there and the consequences of a fall are indeed grave (no pun intended). There were a couple of lines i wouldn't ski though as i didn't think they were safe enough for me at my level

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Had a text chat with a mate of mine. He rates some of the chutes near Mt. Haig at Castle Mountain (Alberta) some of the trickiest marked runs there are. However as I have never been there I cannot comment.

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Nothing marked at Jackson Hole can be the steepest runs. It's not the steepness of these runs that make it so hard but the abilities needed (Alta Chutes need super short turns, Corbet's needs the ability to land a decent jump and navigating a quick turn, etc.). There are very few sections of marked runs at JH that go over 45-50 degrees.

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In Europe very few sections of marked runs go over 35º or 40º. You have to go off piste otherwise.

After all it is free

snowball,

You could throw a rope over.... but that might be overkill....

Some of the entries look ok..some don't...

snowball, agreed. The black off Mont Fort is under 35* for example.

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isn't that hari kiri run 70 degrees?

wink

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I think you probably mean 70% which is 35º. (But I see you winked - I assume it was a deliberate mistake). Snow doesn't even stick on a 70º slope.

Edit: I gather the very steepest bit is acually 78% which is 38º. The Steepest piste in Austria.

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Steepest I have skied is ER 6 ( i think ) at Lake Louise, it is the face to the skiers right of "the wall" off the top of the world 6 pack, you have to use the Paradise triple to get to it. Had been closed all season until the middle of March when the avalanche danger was low enough to open. Wouldn't like to give a steepness rating but it was the steepest thing I skied all season including Terminator Ridge at Kicking Horse

You know it makes sense.

steepest I've "skied" :

Top of Mont Fort
There were a couple of tough short runs at Crans Courmayeur which were bumpy and challenging (can't remember names)
The Wall (sharp intake of breath before I launched myself in to it)
A route from Brevant back to Chamonix town was rather challenging I recall

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I got it. They're about 50 feet long but they are the steepest marked runs...

THE PALISADES at Squaw. Here are a description of the routes off it (note that only the Chimney, Main Chute, Extra Chute, and National are the only ones marked)

1) The Chimney
Encompassing everything from the skier's left of Beck's Rock to Bower's Tower, The Chimney consists of more than eight distinct straightlines and airs (although making billygoating turns here requires even greater cajones). The most classic route is the Chimney Sweep. Air 15' in off the cornice, feel the acceleration of the four-foot wide 60 degree ramp, and get ready for a 25' cliff at 40 mph. As Palisades legend Scot Schmidt says in Greg Stump's License to Thrill, "What's tricky about this thing is the bottom part. It's like a 90 meter jump." The transition can be seemless, but if you're late in arriving and are stuck with sloppy sixths, sticking the landing can be trickier, and failing to do so typically results in a violent beating.

2) Schmidiots
Schmidt dropped into this line and history before several dumfounded onlookers in 1983 while filming for Warren Miller's Ski Time. Now probably the most heralded line on the Palisades, Schmidiots is a 67-degree ramp littered with horizontal steps of rock. The route usually involves snow contact for a second, picking your feet up over five feet of rock, landing and then immediately airing 20' of rock, touching down for a split-second in a 2'-wide sliver and making a crucial re-direction right before airing again. Brace for a possibly brutal transition at the exit and feel free to claim if you're still upright--if you stuck it in medium snow levels. In huge years the entire ramp can be coated by white rime and becomes a fast but standard straightline.

3) Main Chute
If you're looking for something steep but relatively docile, Main is your best bet. In low snow, two throats of 53+ degrees quickly open into the bowl. The initial two or three turns can be gripping, but there's really no exposure. Often a sneaky rut in from skier's right forms, making the entrance less intimidating. If the turns look sketchy but the snow is decent, point it. As with most Palisades lines, going straight is often easier.

4) The Box and Tube Chutes
Actually consisting of several variations, the Box offers up 20-35' airs and several touch-and-go drop-ins to airs. The Tube Chutes are ideal for those who got vertigo looking into The Chimney but still want to bag a straight line. The skier's left Tube is a 3' wide, 62 degree shaft that may require a momentary ollie over rocks or fracture lines into the bowl. Too easy? Try the skier's right Tube. The shoulder-wide sluice is often ice encrusted, may require weighting just one ski and then the other to avoid peppery rocks, arcs slightly left over a patch of rocks and spits you out into the bowl at 40+ mph. Plan your entire strategy, because once you roll over the edge of the near-vertical drop in, there's no time for thought.

5) Extra Chute
Extra has seen its share of movie exploits, from 40-50' airs off the right side of Extra Rock to Shane McConkey's two decades of backflips off the cornice. The 55-60 degree pitch makes for an ideal landing. If that's your thing, back up, wave to the crowd, and skate on in. Extra is also good for a wider, straightforward straightline. But it might just be best for linking a series of turns that couldn't get much steeper. Slide in from skier's right above the divider rock on into the gut. Beware getting high-sided when your tips go up the left wall, because the chute itself can be quite concave. Then have at it. Push outwards so you feel the sensation of dropping between turns. The skier's right side of the divider rock can also be a fun option. It sees less traffic, but it's often littered with peppery rocks and is best as a straightline.

6) National Chute and American Chute
If peering over the edge of everything else has made you queasy, this fat, 40 degree chute and it's thinner sibling to the right are your last escapes (aside from the Kitchen Wall on the other side, which is can be even more intimidating). To combat the personal shame of choosing the easiest route down, make a few steep turns along the left wall. If a large cornice hangs over the chute, it usually tapers to the far right and allows for an easy in. At two ski -widths wide, American offers a momentary couloir-feel with little consequence. Both can have excellent windbuff with swirling southwest winds.

A snowHead

skiking4, and these are marked trails? What happens when an ordinary skier sees it on the trail map and assumes they can ski it and hurts themselves?Surely they aren't groomed Shocked

In Europe that sort of thing would not be marked and numbered along its length and have poles along each side as all pistes (trails) do. It would simply be left for you to ski if you wanted to as off-piste. It would certainly have a name, though, but it probably wouldn't be on the piste map.

A snowHead

snowball have you skied in North America?

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arv Only Canada (I also did some Heli there on the Alaskan border), but my first US ski will be Jackson Hole in February (we are doing the Steep and Deep camp and a bit of Back Country. 9 days skiing.

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paulio - No, a percentage is fall divided by horizontal distance x 100.
So a 45º slope is 1/1 x 100 = 100%
For a quick conversion use sine tables which use the same ratio (sine 45º = 1).

Edit: sorry, not sine, I meant tangent Embarassed

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I've not thought about sine or tangent or cosine since maths at school - please dont tell me that there actually is a useful use for them?

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Most difficult graded run

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