 Poster: A snowHead
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I hate all that bizarre classification of ski gear in rental shops. Have been trying to advise the family on what to go for on a forthcoming trip and I've over-simplified it as:
Bottom tier/Basic/Beginner - broken old noodles with smashed bindings aimed at beginners who know no better
Middle tier/Top/Intermediate - the same gear but properly-ish maintained
Top tier/Vip/Expert - decent gear, well maintained, and not at all 'just for experts/VIPs'
Basically I reckon that pretty much anyone who is beyond 'beginner' status benefits from the better kit. Am I going to kill my loved ones with this advice?
Discuss?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When I've rented I've always gone 'middle' cos I reckon I'm not good enuff to benefit from the 'top' kit, and agree with your thoughts (generally) on the bottom tier. BUT I refuse to pre-book, and therefore choose the shop that's convenient to my location and has decent looking kit/ friendly & knowledgeable staff...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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where I work we have no basic so only top and vip.
Top is generally last seasons skis, some of it being last seasons vip. Generally decent kit.
VIP is this seasons ski kind of paired up with the test skis as well.
The main advantage (at least with the intersport chain) is VIP is changeable anywhere in the chain (11 shops I think in my area) for any reason, even if you don't like the color.
Top can be changed but not every day like some people try and do, there should be a good reason for changing it, e.g. it dumped and is now a crap ski for the conditions.
Some shops do basic but it's a waste of time imo, not changeable, only returnable to the point of rental etc etc.
For snowboards its the same top and vip but you have to pass my secret test to get something decent, I'm not wasting good boards (by that I mean boards that are above the skill level of the person in question) on people who say they can board well when it turns out they did it once before. Pass my secret test and the world of teh stab is open to you. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Think I'd disagree with the middle/top/intermediate description.
My experience is that they are either 1-2 season old retail skis aimed at 'progressing' skiers, or the 2nd season top tier expert skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think you can help yourself here..if you don't care enough to be at least conversant with the types of skis the shop has, then they might figure you don't care what you ski on.
I have a short list of skis that a shop will have knowledge of...they may not stock themselves but will be familiar with it, for sure, so that is my starter guide. The tech will offer his opinion of a comparable ski, and if this conversation is going well, I''ll take the advice. We will have done all the ski talk about what I want to ski, etc etc and this type of arrangment has introduced me to quite a few new skis...
I no longer hire, but that worked well for quite a while. A decent tech will be a keen skier, with a good knowledge and will probably like to engage in making sure his customer enjoys their skiing on a ski the tech turned them onto... IME..
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I always rent and the first question from the ski shop is usually (said in cod French accent) "do you ski ze black pistes?" What's that all about then? I sometimes feel like saying , give me a plank of wood and a bear trap - to go!
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stab, Is your secret test asking them "What colour do you want?" If they answer gold they get the good schmutter?
Nothing worng with basic skis in a good shop if you're just after someting to use on piste, not too aggressively which to be fair is a lot of punters.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| stab, Is your secret test asking them "What colour do you want?" If they answer gold they get the good schmutter? |
Nah it's can we see the make of your underwear over the belt loops on your ski-pants when you're riding. If you answer yes then you get the goods...
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I've had the bog standard ones in the past, but with the massive total of 3 weeks (plus a couple of days at Tamworth) under my belt, I am going for 'top' this year in the hope that I'll notice the difference.JT, what skis should I be looking for? I've just discovered parallels and will be happy practising my newly developed skills on blues and reds.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I wonder if most people wouldn't notice a difference between the bottom and top range skis anyway. With a week or two a year on snow, plus, I suspect, misconceptions of their ability, it generally comes down to all the gear, no idea.
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| hyweljenkins wrote: |
| I wonder if most people wouldn't notice a difference between the bottom and top range skis anyway. With a week or two a year on snow, plus, I suspect, misconceptions of their ability, it generally comes down to all the gear, no idea. |
ouch!
thats cold 
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You know it makes sense.
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Renry, perhaps it is, but I think it's an accurate assessment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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youspurs1,
I'll have a look at the Fall-line mag to see what sort of skis are out there for you. I might not be the right person to ask in terms of skis for what you want so maybe it would be better to start a new thread...
But I will have go..bear with me
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Poster: A snowHead
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hyweljenkins, not sure really- some skis are much easier to use than others- and even or decent skiers different skis are- well different!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stab wrote: |
| For snowboards its the same top and vip but you have to pass my secret test to get something decent, I'm not wasting good boards (by that I mean boards that are above the skill level of the person in question) on people who say they can board well when it turns out they did it once before. Pass my secret test and the world of teh stab is open to you. |
Is the secret test: "which is harder: blue or red?"?
If they say blue, they get the goods?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hyweljenkins, Very true! Our group when we go to a resort without our skis tend to go for the "platinum" range . Mrs RH goes for either the middle range or sometimes the childrens range. She goes down the mountain faster and with more style than the "expert" skiers on platinum skis!!!!!!!!! She laughs to herself and sometimes out loud when she sees those with more money than ability!!
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Roy Hockley, from watching people ski as I'm on chairlifts I reckon 80% of skiers are rubbish and have way over-estimated their ability.
edsilva,
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| and even or decent skiers different skis are- well different |
I recognise those words - I've seen them all before, but I have no idea what they mean when used in that order.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hyweljenkins, i've always wanted them to ban the word intermediate from the dictionary. It says nothing about ability, just a way for 80% of piste users to distinguish themselves from an absolute rookie while honestly admitting that they are not expert/race/instructor level.
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andy, Then I am intermediate!! As for skiing I am not as good!
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hyweljenkins, That's a description of me really. 1 week a year and probably over estimate my own ability. Except when I hired some mid range skis for off piste last season instead of using my own, I really could tell the difference. They were rubbish. Much harder to hold an edge, flappy at speed, slow to turn. Returned them and got some different ones and they were a bit better but not great. I'll stick to my own from now on unless I'm going off piste. Having said that, my skis (salomon pilot 10s from a good few years ago) are better off piste than the hire ones I had.
I realise that it could just be because I'm used to my own skis but I remember getting on my skis for the first time and thinking how much better they were than any of the hire skis I'd ever had.
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olster, but how or why did you decide upon those skis?
I look at ski sale sites, and see 'x' ski, suitable for intermediates...but is it any good for me?
I'm 6'5" 19 stone (I'm working on it, OK?) and have just learnt parallels, I think I'm comfortable on blues, and will go for reds, but am more than happy to spend all day cruising.
I know that due to my height and weight I need something long and fairly stiff (don't say it)....but what?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So after this slightly on-and-off topic thread do I take it that a set of kit's 'VIP-ness' is more to do with the vintage of the kit rather than the perceived difficulty - i.e. there is such a thing as VIP intermediate kit just as there is expert TOP kit?
Or is more the case that you start BASIC, use TOP whilst an inter and save the VIP stuff for when you're a pro?
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youspurs1,
Ok... Look at skis around a tad longer than 180, and I'be thinking at Head Monster 78, K2 Recon..that sort of thing.
A ski that will support your size and not be way too soft...but at your stats you are going to power a few skis anyway. This thinking could take your choice up a level...so you are into advanced skis and your weight will make them a bit more pliable if you need such a thing.
I am still looking to get my copy of Fall-line gear reviews for this seasons skis... but unless you pay VIP type rates you might not get this years skis anyway.
With you stats, I think you have the best type of choice in a shop but you'll need to ask the tech about the skis he stocks..
Nobody but you can answer too difinitively about what ski you'll like, they can only point you in a decent direction.
Not that I am a huge expert, I only know what I like, but if you came into my shop and said you like blues, your stats would be the most over-riding thing. You need a strong ski to support you..so benchmark, 180 plus long and around the high-70, low 80 waist.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bah.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
olster, but how or why did you decide upon those skis?
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I'm embarrassed to say I didn't really put that much thought into it. Didn't even test them before buying them. I was mainly going on the fact that everyone seemed to have them when I bought them TBH. Having said that, they are excellent skis and have been perfect for what I like doing - fast carving on steep pistes.
Now I know what I like and have more knowledge about what the different types of skis are good for, I'd test several pairs before buying.
If you meant how did I choose the hire skis, I knew I was going off piste so I looked at reviews of off piste skis, found ones which lots of people were recommending (B2s at the time IIRC) then went to a hire shop and asked them if they thought it would be a good choice and what length they recommended.
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Sorry for being tenacious about this  , would anyone who knows mind clarifying this point for me: <see>
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You know it makes sense.
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paulio,
I think you first post is pretty close to most shops stock..
VIP/Demo should be this years model and a most desirable ski...most suited to good skiers as the shop doesn't want to risk getting them trashed by week 2. And a good skier should have more chance of missing those rocks and stones that do the damage.
The skis under that label..whatever you call it, will be decent skis but maybe a season or 2 old. The rest is borderline junk unless the shop has looked after them well... they will have some miles on them and have taken some hits.
They still have some uses from the shops POV, on a bad snow day... Rental rockhoppers..!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Think I'm going to steer my 'intermediate'* folks toward the middle tier after all then.
*with apologies to those that hate the term.
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Poster: A snowHead
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paulio,
To really make sense of what the shop has, you might have to be conversant with a few older models...
Forget B2's as they will have had lots of rental miles and the model is 3 years old now, I think.
Head Monster 72...3 years..
Scott Aztecs...hmm..maybe but still showing some years. ditto Santiago Missions.
Dynastar 8000/8800 and 4800...just maybe,
And then there might be skis in there that are rental models only.
If you are really worried and want to know what is what...hire from Edge2edge
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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*cries*
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulio, when in doubt, go for the middle thing. I apply this to everything, and it generally works. And don't pay too much attention to these obsessive trainspotters - they post on here because they have no topic of coversation other than ski gear. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lizzard, and you post on here just because you like the sound of your own big gob... hardly ever constructrive but you still post an opinion
Besides the OP pushed the point..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh so it's my fault is it?
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Yep, another vote for middle-of-the-road.
You just have no idea until you get there. I prepaid for VIP skis once and on arrival the VIPs were all super-stiff race skis which I didn't think I could handle, so I ended up with a lovely (new) pair of Volkls from the "top" range. Next time at a different resort I pre-booked "tops" and there was a rubbish selection of totally trashed skis so I upgraded to VIP. And what do you know - the lazy disinterested ski tech couldn't be arsed to charge me the difference!
It's all nonsense anyway - each year our bunch of (mainly 1-week a yearers) bluff our way through the ski fitting, carefully inspecting the skis, hmming and nodding sagely, randomly rejecting the odd pair, giving "expert" tips to uninterested wives/girlfriends like "Volkl - they're great, Head - they're rubbish"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fatbob, you can't beat a boned out tindy over a hip, check ma steez
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FAQ
