Why do you (or would you) take lessons?

A snowHead

Many of us have taken lessons over the years, and it seems some are pretty regular lesson-takers. What are your motivations for taking lessons? What makes a great lesson? What makes a poor lesson?

What's the best lesson you've ever had?

What's the worst lesson you've ever had?

If you don't take lessons, why don't you?

A snowHead

What are your motivations for taking lessons? To become a better skiier.

What makes a great lesson? When I see/feel an improvement or gain new a new skill.

What makes a poor lesson? Bad communication.

What's the best lesson you've ever had? Hard call, could be the day I was taught to (nearly) zipperline moguls.

What's the worst lesson you've ever had? An off piste group lesson, above my ability, conducted in Austrian.

If you don't take lessons, why don't you? I do, nearly every trip.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

No matter how good you are (or think you are) you can always learn - and you're always learning bad habits.

If Maier benefits from coaching then mere mortals will too.

Following Marc, my fave lesson was the one where I was challenged, "Do you know how to turn on one bump? If you can't turn on one, how do you expect to turn in a whole field of them?" Breakthrough stuff.

Worst was with an ESF ski school director (who shall remain nameless) but who had a style best described as agricultural (and was self taught!). When asked "How do you ski bumps?" He replied, "You don't want to ski bumps. That's for kids like Edgar Grospiron. Let's go cruising."

I was entertaining enough from a liftjumping and local politics point of view but didn't help my skiing one jot.

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What are your motivations for taking lessons? -- in the first instance it was because I couldn't ski! Since then it's to improve technique (and learn new techniques), gain confidence and get guided around the mountain into the bargain.

What makes a great lesson? -- When something I've previously struggled with just "clicks".

What makes a poor lesson? -- I'm with Marc on this one - bad communication.

What's the best lesson you've ever had? -- learning to ski bumps for the first time in Canada.

What's the worst lesson you've ever had? -- never really had a bad one. Lost my ESF instructor once through poor communication.

If you don't take lessons, why don't you? -- I have, on every trip so far. I've decided not to take lessons in La Tania next week as I want to be out on the slopes with my mates all the time - and get up if and when I feel like it on New Year's Day!! snowHead

I'll be back to taking lessons on the following trip.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm addicted to lessons. I tend not to get sudden breakthroughs, but every so often I realise that I've just come down something without bother, where I would have trembled at the top a few years ago; and that's all down to improvement in technique that I couldn't have acquired by myself.

In group lessons, I'd rather be near the top than the bottom of the ability range. I don't mind taking in the scenery while others catch up, but I hate to think I'm holding up anyone else (unless it's my kids, they can just grin and bear it!). I don't look forward to video analysis. It's gruesome, but on the other hand invaluable to understand and correct your faults.

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What are your motivations for taking lessons? To be able to enjoy more of the mountain, and have more fun on the bits I currently enjoy

What makes a great lesson? One where I am challeneged, and brought through the challenge, also one where something clicks (apart from my left knee Very Happy

)

What makes a poor lesson? One where the instructor teaches their "standard lesson", whether it is relevant to the student's needs. (kinda the communication thing again)

What's the best lesson you've ever had? ESA one or two. It wasn't just the lessons, it was the discussions in the evenings, the freeskiing times, etc.

What's the worst lesson you've ever had? Second year in Val d'Isere. I learned nothing. (although I was glad I took the lesson as I met this French girl who was in my group, and... )

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I continue to take lessons each trip, perhaps a morning's private tuition or as in Banff, their 3 day Club Ski programme.

My motivation is to overcome my lack of confidence - I believe if I improve my technique that will ease many of my problems, well in skiing anyway wink

And it has helped a lot. Unfortunately when I have taken group classes I do the classic thing of understating my ability so I don't feel out of my depth - I must not do this Evil or Very Mad

I guess my worst lesson was on my second week skiing where I spent every morning following a crocodile of skiers behind an ESF instructor and didn't learn one thing. I was the same standard at the end of that week as I was at the end of my first week.

After all it is free

A number of you have replied along the lines of "to get better." Why do you want to get better? In other words, what difference does it make for you whether you get better or not?

ssh, I'm waiting with bated breath for the next few answers! The above comments are interesting and helpful - I shall have to remember to challenge people at the end of seasdon bash in BSM!!!! wink

Speaking personally, if I manage to get a bit of help from a colleague I always hope they'll spot something I haven't felt, so I can do something about it. Why? To get better of course!

My worst lesson was a race training session with the ESF in Val D. We went up and down and tried our best and the instructor said nothing to us Brits while giving the French a serious chat at the end of each run. Eventually I was sent to ask him to give us some value for our money - "OH he said - Do you want instruction too?!

Other than that I wasn't desparately keen on John Clarke telling me I was ski-ing like an old wifey Shock

I can't say about my best lesson - had too many to remember.

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ssh, at first I wanted to get better so I could go all over the mountains without needing to plan routes to avoid certain pistes. Then I went through a phase of not wanting to get left too far behind the kids! Now it's mainly personal challenge - I just like to get better at things.

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I can't remember the last time I had a lesson, but I've never been to ski school anyway.
It depends how you pick things up, I skied with plenty of guides and that is always an education, and after a while
you know what you are trying to do. The group I ski with now, mostly, have all learnt to do the do the same things at the same time. That is, we started to ski off-piste and taught each other. after all, we figured if you can ski a red then pick a slope of the same angle in new snow and just make sure you unweight the skis a bit more, some might call it bounce. Then we realised that on steeper stuff we would need to get those skis round and up out of the snow so we jumped them.

I just watched good skiers and copied them, I think, as much as I could. It all comes down to hours.
I am happy with what I can ski and am looking to improve but as I spend so little time on snow I haven't
given lessons much thought formally. If I have trouble this year, I will be thinking again but that may just
be marrying technology in today's skis with older technique.

I must admit I have been on a few slopes that are a bit beyond my technique, more than a few, but I can cope, I try to ski safe and don't fall much. I think I know what I am trying to do. That's not to say formal lessons would not help, but I am learning all the time.

Still trying to master breakable crust but I hope the M:B5's will crack that...!!!

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JT, do you think that you could get that breakthrough by taking a lesson?

You and I are in a similar situation, except that I decided to try to make a living as a ski instructor last winter (ok, it was dumb, but I didn't know that at the time!). As a result, I had multiple clinics with high-level instructors (clinicians and examiners), and my skiing took off again for the first time in decades (this is my 34th season).

I have an opinion on my question, but I'd like to hear what you think, first, JT.

Great lesson - when I understand what I'm being asked to do, AND I manage to do it!

Poor lesson - when I don't feel I've learned anything new (not having anything to go away with to practice).

Best lesson - 2 weeks ago when my instructor told me that I now ski better than many of the newly hired instructors at the resort.

Worst lesson - the first time I did a Blue run, and we stopped at the top to talk for too long, and I started to panic. Then we practiced side slipping so much down the run that by the time I got 2/3rds of the way down I had paniced so much that I could no longer turn - basically I was stuck - the instructor knew that it was my first Blue run, but had no idea that he was scaring me. In the end I had to get angry so that I could move enough to take my skis off and throw them at him, and then slide the rest of the way down - luckily it was a short run. That run was a big problem for me even after I had started doing Black runs.

Why do I take lessons - to get better at skiing! I started skiing Jan 10th 2004, and did 31 days last season and 26 lessons! By the end of the season I could comfortably ski Black runs. I've now skied 19 days this season, and had 4 lessons (less lessons so far because of lack of snow, and lack of upper level group lessons because of the lack of snow). I carve most of my turns, although I still slide in difficult and unfamiliar terrain. And I need to initiate my turns sooner, and get quicker at the crossover of edges between turns. Short radius turns are becoming easier, and I have been known to manage 2 hop turns together! Moguls are still difficult, but WILL get easier! Smile

So why am I bothered about getting better? - it's a personal challenge - I didn't expect to like skiing, nor did I expect to be reasonably good at it and I was surprised. I want to be able to ski with the friends I've made skiing, and many of them are instructors, so I've got to be able to ski well to keep up with them. I also have a major goal - I want to be able to ski one particular mogul field, and to actually ski it, not just get down! It might take me 20 years to get to that stage, but I WILL get there! So I will continue to take lessons, since there will always be something to learn.

You know it makes sense.

ssh,

Don't know, upto now I have not even thought about it. It was because I seemed to fall behind guys that I used to lead. As an excuse They have all skied more than me so it is about time that became apparent. But I am putting extra effort to get fit this year and will take on board the fact that I can't expect to ski traditionally on moden skis. That may be the first thing. As a I have said in other threads it was something I did not think was an issue but what with all the debate here I can see why/where my friends have improved.
As for actually taking a lesson this year...hhmmmm..!! If the conditions are good then I will enjoy it so much that I will not have time, but if they are so-so I may consider a one-off lesson. I can't see me enroling in a class for a week for example but a one on one, maybe. But for the time and the money I would normally hire a guide.

I'll let you know on this.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Never done ski school and just had the very occasional off piste lesson/guide. I guess it is to do with how I learnt - I was living in the Geneva area and went skiing with mates. So I am sure I have tons of bad habits, but seem to be able to get round the bits of the mountains I want to ski.

I am looking at improving off piste and am thinking that I must do one of those SCGB holidays sometime. That might mean lessons, but my personal take is that I need fitness more than I need lessons!

A snowHead

Mark Lehto, I discovered that the better I have become through lessons, the less fitness has been a critical issue - I have a bad knee, and it used to be that after 2-3 days on the slopes I was on painkillers, and was tired. Now that my technique has improved, it is now 5+ days before I start to feel it.

A snowHead

Wear The Fox Hat I'll grant you that - I can "do" a weeks skiing whatever my current blobiness if I am just on piste and that did not used to be the case. But however I chose to learn more about off piste I am sure it will be easier if I am fitter.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I take lessons as often as I can because I want to have a ski better.
I want to ski better because I believe I will then be able to ski more terrain in more conditions.
I now only do one-on-one or maybe one-on-two lessons as I get so much more out of them than when trying to jockey for position in a group of eight or more. That said, one of my best experiences was in ski-school in Pas. The instructor spoke very little English but was a great teacher and very passionate about his sport. Also, there were only six of us in the class and we were all of a similar ability and attitude - that really made a difference.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

It tells me I'm not on my own Smile

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What are your motivations for taking lessons? To push myself and be as good as I reasonably can expect to be.

What makes a great lesson? When things begin to click and you relate exactly to the instruction you receive

What makes a poor lesson? Bad communication.

What's the best lesson you've ever had? More a series of 5 two and and half hour sessions on a week dedicated to improving my skiing.

What's the worst lesson you've ever had? A lesson from an Evo2 instructor that spoke little English and really didn't seem as though he wanted to be there.

If you don't take lessons, why don't you? Always have at least one lesson to help iron out all those little bad habits that creep in somehow between seasons!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Have you ever had a one on one lesson mark ? A couple of us are thinking about it for this year, but cant make our mind up, as to whether its worth it.

After all it is free

Mick, nearly always and in the other cases, never more than 2:1. IMHO, the improvement in the skiing makes it well worth it.

We only ever have private lessons - what you get out of them is far better than you ever achieve in a group session. It seems expensive at first but I promise a couple of lessons spread out over the week is worth a whole week of lessons in a group.

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I have had coaching in the past year primarily from PSIA clinicians and examiners (the highest level of instructor in the US system). Even though I have been in reasonably large groups (8-10), the skill of the coaches has made the experience very valuable for me. When you are taking lessons, do you request a particular level or type of instructor? My thought is that the level and experience of the instructor may be more vital than the coach/student ratio.

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ssh, good point! I always go with the schools/instructors reccomended on here - I've never been disappointed yet. Also I'm not advanced enough to really require specialist coaching.....it's an important thing for some snowheads to bear in mind though when booking.

Could do with a "have you got the bottle for this run?" transplant - wish mine wouldn't desert me so often! Embarassed

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ssh wrote

well said David Murdoch, the list definately gets longer and the amount of time to do it in shorter!!!

You know it makes sense.

mick newby,

Private lessons are great - in fact 1:2 or 1:3 can be better as you can learn from other peoples mistakes too. However, IMPO you need to be motivated enough to practise on your own too.

Personally I get the most out of a couple of hours where an instructor says

OK, you're not bad but some bad points are these
- here are some exercises to help get rid of them
- and here's some new stuff you should try.

I can then go off and work on my own with maybe a second session later in the week to review and monitor progress.

I don't think they're ideal for first week skiers for example...

JT I'm fascinated (particularly because I think skiing's quite a cerebral activity and I'm not very sportingly gifted...) - IMHO there's a fairly limited range of movements in any given situation that work most efficiently while skiing. Given the bad habits that I see many skiers acquiring - do you think that you wouldn't benefit from an instructor/coach giving your technique a bit of an overhall? I don't think I could have reached whatever level I have without external input (from someone who knows what they're talking about, generally not just my mates).

I will confess that anyone I know who's self taught is generally pretty underwhelming to watch (absolutely no offense intended). I mean, every instructor/guide I knows gets coached by their peers on a fairly frequent basis.

On a tangent, I was a self taught rollerblader - I mean, they feel just like skis, right? Anyway, I took a course of lessons last year and discovered that about 50% of what I did was just plain wrong. So I had effectively wasted 10 years where I could have been skating at a much higher level. Doh!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

ssh, my lessons are usually with PSIA Level 3 instructors, examiners or demo team members. Occasionally I'll have a level 2 instructor, but they don't tend to teach my level of lesson. I take group lessons, but the groups are small - 3 or 4 people most of the time.

A snowHead

David Murdoch,

Your view is valid but we ski in a group of 6-8 and we have a broad idea of what we want to do.
For instance this year one of our holidays will be spent on Bellecote and I will have sussed out a few routes before we go. We are all pretty much the same level (8 on ssh's definition) we carry day kit inc harness's, ropes etc if the route needs commitment, ie no turning back...and at the very least bleepers, shovels, probes etc and have been doing this for some time now.
We used to be very competetive with each other, and that still pushes us on, but now we are more interested in'skiing' it and acknowledge when someone has a blinding day. That is what drives us on and, I feel, makes us get better. We want everyone to get the same buzz as it is what keeps us going.
The pistes are for getting to where you want to go so don't care what colour it may be. My style has evolved to a point where the first priority is 'don't f***ing fall' because you will likely go a long way at the very least, maybe lose kit which at the very least is inconvienient. So I have one or two turns which I call my bankers, they get me round. I am all for as much style as I can muster but safe is better.
I wouldn't rule out lessons but agree with Mark Lehto that fitness is the key to my improvement this year. That is why I have been banging on about the right skis for my style. The last thing I need is fatigue which may be brought on by a tiring ski.
I always watch very good skiers but is used to be so easy when there was not so much diverse kit and it used to be a case of getting up out of the snow and round. Now with these monster fats people can just GS blast through it.
My fave' is a steep gully which is tight so I still put great emphasis on jumps, it works for me.

I think I will only have a lesson if the snow is poor and I am having a nhis for some time now.
We used to be very competetive with each other, and that still pushes us on, but now we are more interested in'skiing' it and acknowledge when someone has a blinding day. That is what drives us on and, I feel, makes us get better. We want everyone to get the same buzz as it is what keeps us going.
The pistes are for getting to where you want to go so don't care what colour it may be. My style has evolved to a point where the first priority is 'don't f***ing fall' because you will likely go a long way at the very least, maybe lose kit which at the very least is inconvienient. So I have one or two turns which I call my bankers, they get me round. I am all for as much style as I can muster but safe is better.
I wouldn't rule out lessons but agree with Mark Lehto that fitness is the key to my improvement this year. That is why I have been banging on about the right skis for my style. The last thing I need is fatigue which may be brought on by a tiring ski.
I always watch very good skiers but is used to be so easy when there was not so much diverse kit and it used to be a case of getting up out of the snow and round. Now with these monster fats people can just GS blast through it.
My fave' is a steep gully which is tight so I still put great emphasis on jumps, it works for me.

I think I will only have a lesson if the snow is poor and I am having a nightmare. I am more likley to hire a guide and aspire to ski like them. And if I am havingill pushes us on, but now we are more interested in'skiing' it and acknowledge when someone has a blinding day. That is what drives us on and, I feel, makes us get better. We want everyone to get the same buzz as it is what keeps us going.
The pistes are for getting to where you want to go so don't care what colour it may be. My style has evolved to a point where the first priority is 'don't f***ing fall' because you will likely go a long way at the very least, maybe lose kit which at the very least is inconvienient. So I have one or two turns which I call my bankers, they get me round. I am all for as much style as I can muster but safe is better.
I wouldn't rule out lessons but agree with Mark Lehto that fitness is the key to my improvement this year. That is why I have been banging on about the right skis for my style. The last thing I need is fatigue which may be brought on by a tiring ski.
I always watch very good skiers but is used to be so easy when there was not so much diverse kit and it used to be a case of getting up out of the snow and round. Now with these monster fats people can just GS blast through it.
My fave' is a steep gully which is tight so I still put great emphasis on jumps, it works for me.

I think I will only have a lesson if the snow is poor and I am having a nightmare. I am more likley to hire a guide and aspire to ski like them. And if I am havingill pushes us on, but now we are more interested in'skiing' it and acknowledge when someone has a blinding day. That is what drives us on and, I feel, makes us get better. We want everyone to get the same buzz as it is what keeps us going.
The pistes are for getting to where you want to go so don't care what colour it may be. My style has evolved to a point where the first priority is 'don't f***ing fall' because you will likely go a long way at the very least, maybe lose kit which at the very least is inconvienient. So I have one or two turns which I call my bankers, they get me round. I am all for as much style as I can muster but safe is better.
I wouldn't rule out lessons but agree with Mark Lehto that fitness is the key to my improvement this year. That is why I have been banging on about the right skis for my style. The last thing I need is fatigue which may be brought on by a tiring ski.
I always watch very good skiers but is used to be so easy when there was not so much diverse kit and it used to be a case of getting up out of the snow and round. Now with these monster fats people can just GS blast through it.
My fave' is a steep gully which is tight so I still put great emphasis on jumps, it works for me.

I think I will only have a lesson if the snow is poor and I am having a nightmare. I am more likley to hire a guide and aspire to ski like them. And if I am having trouble they and my buddies will get me down.

One thing I may do this year is to go on a ski test week and just blast around, at least that will give me an upto date perspective on ski technique. I'm not against lessons but I am self-taught for over 20 years and my tracks look pretty good on the mountain in most cases IMHO. But there is always someone who is better, loads in my case.

A snowHead

JT, no argument, if it works for you, then it works.

I just know it wouldn't have worked for me!

And, in fairness, you would have to devote some time to practise in "controlled" conditions - whereas it sounds as though you are happily having fun anyway without going through that, so I can't argue. {{I will confess that it sounds as though you spend rather more time backcountry than I do, so I'm jealous}}. Crying or Very sad

End of the day, you and your friends sound as though you have a whole load of well driven, energetic skiing and that's the most important thing at the end of the day.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

JT, seems like the weight of the skis may be important for you if you're packing them up or during climbing... It also seems like you're going to want a real "big mountain fat", not a more "all mountain" model. I would suggest you read Si's comments on the M:b5 over on EpicSki for more on it in the kind of conditions you likely encounter. I wouldn't want to suggest to you a ski that just won't work!

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David Murdoch,

You are right to say that we like to go looking for stuff but you and I know what you want to find and what you actually do find can be poles apart. That is why I want an all-rounder. I have used Ini 74's and XX's the last few years and I am loking at the M:b5 and a Head monster as I feel they may be a step on in ski development.
If it is day out in the heli' or somewhere out the back I may go Fat.
If it is crap snow then I'll be looking at a guide/instructor

ssh,

I have enjoyed your reviews and Si's effort on Epic ski, everyone talks about how heavy it is..!!
I'll try it and if it doesn't work for me I'll change it. After talking to you and David and everyone else on here
I have decided that fitness is my key this year, first and foremost, and if I still get blown away I will have to rethink. I am not against the idea of a technical review it is finding the time. I have missed enough trips with my lot, 'the awesome' this and 'the fabulous' that, that I don't want to miss anymore. That is also a reason why I may have fallen behind, they ski so much more than me these days.

I will be demo'ing the b5 and maybe some of the other skis you have mentioned, I will accept that 162 will be more than enough although losing nigh on 30cms (1 foot ) wil be strange.

Thanks for your input, I'll let you know how I get on.

Merry Xmas and bon ski..!!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Sorry about the context of the above what with duplication and all that. I have just tried to previewit and it does read like that at all, so I don't know how that happened. I will try and edit it when my connection speeds up..!!

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JT, There are currently problems with long losts. Posts longer than 2048 characters get jumbled. Best to split it into smaller chunks for now. See http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=4250

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

JT, I know what you mean about training and fitness! I'm working on bodyweight exercises to get my fitness level up, and wow! combining balance with exercise is a real killer for me! I wish you the best in the process. Let me know how much fun you have when you go. For me, I'll be off for a full week on the 21st for the ESA at Big Sky. Until then, I'll be up at Copper a few times. I've got to get in better shape, though!!! snowHead

After all it is free

ssh, vot a lot of quvestions! No more! I will talk!
I have lessons every year: a crowd of us go to Belle Plagne every year and ski with Christof. Alongwith instruction we get to jump all the queues, don't have long conversations about where we are going or where we will eat, and don't waste time with coffee breaks.
But I would opt for instruction anyway - I think most of us do it to maintain status - keep our place in the pecking order with our peers, and keep up with our kids. But it's not just vanity. There is a real thrill in acquiring a new skill. I don't remember specific "Best Lessons", but I do remember the day I managed to short swing down a mogul field, or jump turns, or link turns in powder. Great moments.

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marc gledhill, I'm with you - recognise most of what you're saying!

What are your motivations for taking lessons? It's academic. I enjoy learning & more importantly, improving. Sure, I'll improve just by skiing (on my own), but if a bit of improvement's good, then a lot of improvement's great. I feel lessons do help me improve quicker - it may not be true, but it feels like it, so I'm happy (as are all the instructors who take my dosh!)

What makes a great lesson? One where I come away feeling as if I've just clicked with something - a tangible sense of improvement or achievement.

What makes a poor lesson? The opposite. Having said that, I can come away from a lesson thinking, "I just can't get that" but if it clicks later on in the day, the lesson can go from bad to good, even though it's finished. Weird, aren't I?

What's the best lesson you've ever had? Mountain Masters in Val d'Isere (1-2-1) or maybe New Gen last year in Courchevel (again, 1-2-1)

What's the worst lesson you've ever had? Engelberg group lesson. Real bend-ze-knees stuff.

If you don't take lessons, why don't you? Always have, always will...

Help!!

Why do you (or would you) take lessons?

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