 Poster: A snowHead
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Have just seen that Kals and Matrei in East Tirol have linked there slopes for 2008/9 forming a ski area with 100km of pistes and a highpoint of over 2400m. Anyone been to either of these places? Have never even been to east tirol and had never heard of either of the resorts but looks like an ok area on their website. Just wondering if it is a hidden jem???
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JimSearle, Kals most certainly is a hidden gem and I wish you hadn't mentioned it (what am i saying? Most folks on here think France is the only country with mountains and snow). I have also skied Heiligenblut which is the other side of the Grossglockner and that was great too. No one goes to these place so no queues and empty runs, usual VFM 4 star austrian hotels, fast new lifts. Nightlife isn't exactly rip roaring but there are a few late night haunts if you can be ars*d to find them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JimSearle, nice find, according to the piste map the high point tops out at 2621m at Cimaross where the gondola from Kals meets the chair from Matrei. They're also boasting about a view of sixty 3000m peaks from the ski area. These must be the peaks of the Hohe Tauern range, the highest in Austria.
Been up to the Grossglockner glacier and went through the Felbertauern tunnel and past Matrei on the way to Italy in Summer, but never skied the area, one to bear in mind for the future though.
Doesn't this area south of the main Alpine ridge get different snowfall patterns to areas further north?
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There was some discussion on the alpinforum and the top station is actually at 2420m! They're saying it's 2600 for marketing reasons...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| luigi wrote: |
Doesn't this area south of the main Alpine ridge get different snowfall patterns to areas further north? |
Exactly, it gets snow from southern or south-western low pressure zones or from Adria tiefs, while the rest of Austria gets snow from north-western/northern systems. In the north there can be plenty of snow while none in the south ande vice versa! The Föhn wind (süd or north Föhn depending on the system) usually stops the precipitation to jump from one side of the alps to the other.
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bart_bdv, interesting. Wonder what you'd find if you checked all the measurements claimed by all resorts?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| bart_bdv, interesting. Wonder what you'd find if you checked all the measurements claimed by all resorts? |
Wasn't there a discussion about that here on snowheads? Indeed many resorts are not very exact with the heights, but usually not more than 50m. For instance tougnete in meribel is not 2430 but 2380m, and courchevel 1850 is actually at 1700 for it's base station (although some hotels really are at 1850m). The same problem exists for the number of kilometers pistes advertised by the resort. For instance stubaier glacier claims to have 100 km of pistes while a couple of years ago it was only 40km...
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Bode Swiller, how long did it take to get to Heiligenblut? Looks pretty remote.
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Umm when you look at it on google earth the area that seems to be top is about 2550m, GPS cant be more than 3-4m out on altitude. Was in Heiligenblut 3 weeks ago and the north westerly precipitation was certainly reaching the southernside of the tauern range, there was 50 cm of snow above 2000m! I think people over do the north south thing the tauern are big but they are not the Himalaya, any sizable storm dumps snow on both sides in my experience, but maybe i have just been lucky  . Although I should imagine all that snow is gone by now. Heiligenblut is about 2 hours from Klagenfurt (if your not hanging around) and its motorway for the first half.
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| JimSearle wrote: |
| Umm when you look at it on google earth the area that seems to be top is about 2550m, GPS cant be more than 3-4m out on altitude. Was in Heiligenblut 3 weeks ago and the north westerly precipitation was certainly reaching the southernside of the tauern range, there was 50 cm of snow above 2000m! I think people over do the north south thing the tauern are big but they are not the Himalaya, any sizable storm dumps snow on both sides in my experience, but maybe i have just been lucky . Although I should imagine all that snow is gone by now. Heiligenblut is about 2 hours from Klagenfurt (if your not hanging around) and its motorway for the first half. |
Just check this, I think the austrian/germans know better which altitude it is:
http://alpinforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2837&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Kals+matrei&start=300
About the precipitation, north western winds can only reach the southern alps if the dynamics of the system is strong enough to push it over the "alpenhauptkamm" (don't know the english word). This happened beginning december last year when northern austrian resorts got over a meter of snow, but also Sankt moritz or the dolomites got 30-50cm. This is very rare however. What happens more often is that nort western winds north of the alps are combined with an adriatief over italy. In such a case both sides of the alpes can get snow as the effect of the Föhn wind is negated. I don't know the specific situation of Heiligenbut however, and there are some resorts at the alpenhauptkamm that get snow both from north and south (maybe heiligenblut profits from this).
Note that the mountains do not have te be as high as the himalaya to stop precipitations! It is the natural phenomenon of Föhn that can cause abundant snowfall at one side of the mountain, and dry almost sunny weather at the other side (mountains as low as 2500m can already cause this effect). This causes some resorts to be very dry. Sölden for instance gets almost no snow from the south as a small Fôhn tends to built over the valley. On the other hand it is wel protected from northern winds although not by föhn(if a meter falls in Sankt Anton 20cm falls in Sölden,fictonal numbers). Luckily for Sölden its skiing area is high, and the higher you go the heavier the snowfall.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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bart_bdv wrote:
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"alpenhauptkamm" (don't know the english word).
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A direct translation would be main Alpine ridge, Americans would probably call it the Continental Divide. I assume Adriatief means an Adriatic Low. Thanks for the interesting insight into these weather patterns.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, how long did it take to get to Heiligenblut? Looks pretty remote.
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the ice perv, Looks remote and it feels remote but actually only around 100 miles from either Salzburg or Klagenfurt. It's a long way off the autobahn though and I seem to recall it taking a lot more than the 2 hrs quoted by JimSearle. He's obviously one of those ton-up Cheltenham boys you hear about.
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Monterosa has this weather feed predominately from the south and apparently not the same systems as Zermatt enjoys... There is a huge ridge of 4000mtr peaks to make this barrier though. It is one theory that has stopped the Monterosa area being the resort they hoped it would be and every time I have been there..4 or 5 times now, .. the locals have complained of this
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Zermatt actually does get most of it snow from Southern systems (as the Monterosa area and Cervinia), just a bit less so than the Italian resorts. Zermatt itself is already well protected itself from northern systems, so the Monterosa probably gets nothing from that. So in a season where north-western winds prevail the monterosa resorts will suffer from snow shortage, while Zermatt will have snow but less than its northern neighbours. However if the southern en south-western winds prevail than Monterosa will be among the snowier resorts in the alps. Alagna actually mainly gets its snow from so called "retour d'est". This is when the weather systems are pushed back from east to west against their natural direction. The system then gets blocked at the Italian side of the alps (Aosta, Piemonte) and huge quantities of snow fall (>1m), while the swiss and french get nothing (except for the frontier resorts like val d'isere, bonneval sur Arc, Montgenevre,...). This is however quite rare (once or twice a season if even that)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Heard of both resorts but not skied either. Skied Heiligenblut a few times though and the year I lived out in Klagenfurt, I skied it on the last day of the season, it was sometime around mid-April and they were closing due to no punters. As we skied down they were taking out the piste markers behind us, and the snow kept bucketing down. Tons of the white stuff, no people to ski it! Last day lift ticket was only £3 though, so best skiing bargain I have ever had!
Heiligenblut was a pretty quiet resort but lovely and very off the beaten track. East Tirol has lots of interesting skiing but is barely mentioned in most ski publications, so is uncrowded. Did a lot of skiing on the Zettersfeld (I think?) above Lienz, which again had good snow until late in the season.
[nostalgia] I miss Saturday afternoon/Sunday skiing with pals on local hills, shunting to and fro on trains/buses and loving every minute! [/nostalgia]
D
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Deliaskis, yep, had powder galore and all to ourselves. Over 5000 feet of vertical there but I don't think it was possible to do it in a oner unless the new lifts have altered things. One look at the homepage pic brings it all flooding back... http://www.heiligenblut.at/ - defo one of the most photogenic ski areas on earth and nobody goes there. I hear they've taken out what was the world's longest T bar.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I must say that Heiligenblut has been for a long time on my list of "interesting" skiing areas. However, I've never been there because on the austian forums I've read that it often has a lack of snow due to being too central in the alps AND because it''s very exposed to wind, blowing away the snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Think I might have to have a road trip around East Tirol to have a play in all of these empty areas!
Deliaskis, How far do you reckon Heiligenblut is from Klagenfurt, just wondering if I imagined getting there in around 2 hours??? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JimSearle, cripes I really can't remember it was years ago when I did it, but I think 2 to 2.5 hours is somewhere around accurate. In bad weather though it would be miles longer as it's a trek off the motorway and at snowy speeds (especially with chains) I can imagine it would be a draaaag...
D
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JimSearle, Heiligenblut is in Carinthia by the way. If you're thinking of doing a road trip I'd suggest dropping in at Molltal glacier on the way (stay in Flattach). Heiligenblut is 100 miles from Klagenfurt and only half of it motorway. You may have done it in 2 hours.
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I've never been there because on the austian forums I've read that it often has a lack of snow due to being too central in the alps AND because it''s very exposed to wind, blowing away the snow
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bart_bdv, not in my experience. From mid station the runs are tree lined and nowhere on the mountain felt that exposed. Snow? The reason the pass over to Salzburgerland (Grossglockner Strasse) is closed is because of snow.
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Yep, that's about as busy as it gets!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
JimSearle, Heiligenblut is in Carinthia by the way. If you're thinking of doing a road trip I'd suggest dropping in at Molltal glacier on the way (stay in Flattach). Heiligenblut is 100 miles from Klagenfurt and only half of it motorway. You may have done it in 2 hours.
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I've never been there because on the austian forums I've read that it often has a lack of snow due to being too central in the alps AND because it''s very exposed to wind, blowing away the snow
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bart_bdv, not in my experience. From mid station the runs are tree lined and nowhere on the mountain felt that exposed. Snow? The reason the pass over to Salzburgerland (Grossglockner Strasse) is closed is because of snow. |
If you look at these pics you can see quite a bit of wind damage. However, the pistes don't seem to suffer too much from that:
http://alpinforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=21124&hilit=heiligenblut
The fallblich area seems to have more snow than the other areas because it also gets snow from the north.
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Anyone care to guess which airport is nearest for E Tirol? Am thinking Innesbruck but not sure?
Bode Swiller, agree with you on the snow in Heilgenblut, went to that area a lot as a kid and never had any problems (that i remember!).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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JimSearle, Klagenfurt is 150km to Lienz, Innsbruck is 200km, Salzburg 200km and Munich 250km. Klagenfurt is the easist, most straight-forward drive.
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