 Poster: A snowHead
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Having passed my CSIA Level 3 last season, taking the course on the understanding it was an ISIA level qualification as per CSIA web site, have just had E-mail from Canada stating you require Level 4 to get ISIA stamp.
Does anyone have any further info on this while i await response from CSIA.
Are there any Level 3's out there that do have an ISIA stamp, i understand this used to be the case ?
Does this mean CSIA Level 4 is equivalent to BASI Level 3 and BASI Level 4 (ISTD) is above anything the Canadians offer ?.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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News to me. I know a Level 3 who has the ISIA stamp, but I guess this development could be the latest instalment in the ISIA black plan that's been talked about. However I thought the plan had been for Level 3 to continue to carry an ISIA red stamp. Incidentally, am told by the Level 3 that BASI don't require too much from him to convert to BASI ISIA: mountain safety and something else, though he already has CSCF2.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thats interesting was planning to do my CSCF 2 this season, maybe i should contact BASI !
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Erm, I almost did the L3 course on the same understanding and made a reasonable effort to check it out with the course provider and some others.
There is a discussion here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=28259
But I expect veeeight will be along soon who should be able to clarify.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There is some current discussion and hoo haa with the CSIA at the moment to implement that all future CSIA L3's not be automatically awarded an ISIA. This is not thought to apply retrospective to existing CSIA L3's.
However the debate is still live and a hot potato, affecting many member countries, so nothing definite at the moment.
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Thanks for the feedback, its all interesting stuff, just as an interesting point on levels as the CSIA tell me i need Level 4 for my ISIA stamp, on my Level 3 course last winter we had a young guy who before the course in April had succesfully completed his Eurotest and his BASI ISIA Technical module, he failed the CSIA Level 3 !!.
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Rossiboy,
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on my Level 3 course last winter we had a young guy who before the course in April had succesfully completed his Eurotest and his BASI ISIA Technical module, he failed the CSIA Level 3 !!.
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I haven't studied the CSIA Levels and how they compare to BASI but what did he fail on then? The teaching element of CSIA L3?
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
Rossiboy,
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on my Level 3 course last winter we had a young guy who before the course in April had succesfully completed his Eurotest and his BASI ISIA Technical module, he failed the CSIA Level 3 !!.
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I haven't studied the CSIA Levels and how they compare to BASI but what did he fail on then? The teaching element of CSIA L3? |
You would think so, but he passed the Teaching, failed the Technical, i think maybe he was a bit to racy ie. too one dimensional for the Canadians, but i don't know for certain.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Rossiboy, hmmmm see what you mean. Interesting that. What was his reaction to failing it?!
Incidentally if he already had Eurotest and BASI ISIA Tech, why was he doing CSIA L3 instead of doing BASI ISIA Teach and then going on to BASI ISTD? Was he swapping systems or something?
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I think like me he wanted his ISIA stamp for this season, so he could get a "proper" teaching job, having spent a lot of money already last season i think he still had all the other modules to do, CSIA was still the quickest & cheapest route (if you are at the level).
He was pretty pissed about failing and i was quite suprised.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Rossiboy, ohhhh. Yes I expect he was mega miffed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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From my understanding it's often the slower skiing (plough / basic parallel etc.) that catches people out.
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could be off piste, variables or bumps that got him... most fail BASI ISIA in the bumps
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You know it makes sense.
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From what I understand, as I said before somewhere round here, is that all L3's will no longer be classed as ISIA. Doesn't matter if you passed a week ago or a decade ago, and will be as so for all future passes. I believe the main reason to be the length/content of the course not beong up to ISIA standards. They are still discussing the in's and out's of it for the forthcoming season, so all those involved can do is wait for the outcome 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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david@mediacopy, skimottaret, freestyleandy, so in Bumps then, how would an ISIA skier be skiing them compared to a Level 2 skier skiing them? i.e what differences would you expect to see apart from it being a better standard?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| david@mediacopy, skimottaret, freestyleandy, so in Bumps then, how would an ISIA skier be skiing them compared to a Level 2 skier skiing them? i.e what differences would you expect to see apart from it being a better standard? |
Steeper, faster, bigger and with tighter control. It's a big step up.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, ah. Yes I can imagine. Level 1 to Level 2 is a big step up so I'm told so Level 2 to ISIA would be even an even bigger step up.
Incidentally, when you did your L1, and then a few months later your L2, how much extra in difficulty level would you say the L2 was to you? 100%, 200%? More? It will depend on the level of the skier to start with though, I know that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5,
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Steeper, faster, bigger and with tighter control.
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.....and without poles......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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freestyleandy, that's something I didn't know. Where do they expect your arms and hands to be? I know that may seem like a silly question but are they looking at what you're doing with them as well as in a certain position? I must say in some respects I like skiing without poles. Then again on piste it's easy skiing without poles.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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VolklAttivaS5, I think the step up from L1 to L2 depends to a large extent on which Trainer you have for the courses. The technical aspects of my L2 was considerably more demanding in terms of what we were asked to do on the L1, and looking at BASI's assessment criteria probably tougher than was strictly required. The L2 course that was being run by a different Trainer in parallel to ours certainly seemed easier from a technical perspective, but more demanding on the teaching side. It's difficult for me to quantify the 'extra difficulty' going from L1 to L2, but look at BASI's assessment criteria to get a feel for the required standard at L1 and at L2. If you have a good understanding of BASI's 6-point assessment system (eg the difference in performance between a 3 and a 5) you can understand what is required for the different qualifications. As you say, it depends on the level of skier to start with, so if it helps you get a feel for the standards required I went from getting mostly 4s on my L1 to mostly 6s on my L2.
I've had some sessions with Trainers to look at my performance with respect to ISIA. In general I did think that there was a much bigger change in demand from L2 to ISIA than there was from L1 to L2, but the step up in performance was not consistent across the different elements. On piste didn't seem such a big step up, off-piste would need a solid performance but still not a massive change, but bumps really was a whole different level of demand. However, that might just reflect how rubbish I am in bumps compared to on and off-piste!
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| freestyleandy wrote: |
VolklAttivaS5,
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Steeper, faster, bigger and with tighter control.
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.....and without poles...... |
Really? Not heard that. It doesn't appear in the BASI criteria as far as I know. Skiing decent bumps without poles is no easy task!
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VolklAttivaS5, we had to skis the bumps with arms folded in front of us, hands in front hovering over the 'bump tops' outside the 'rut' line, and a couple of runs with hands on hips/head! Another good bumps lapping 'regular' was jumping in and out of lines, ie. 5 bumps, jump to the line to the left and do another 5, then jump back into the original line for 5 more etc........
rob@rar, From what I gathered, they use it more as an exercise or challenge, rather than passing or failing people on it. Although I do seem to remember it being mentioned that it is 'required' for the ISTD bumps 
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| freestyleandy wrote: |
| we had to skis the bumps with arms folded in front of us, hands in front hovering over the 'bump tops' outside the 'rut' line, and a couple of runs with hands on hips/head! |
Good grief!! Who was your Trainer? One to avoid methinks...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, Mo Duffy, it wasn't that bad, damn tiring though!! A few slow runs through and then pick the pace up and its do-able 
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rob@rar, Firstly, thanks very much for your useful and helpful reply
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As you say, it depends on the level of skier to start with, so if it helps you get a feel for the standards required I went from getting mostly 4s on my L1 to mostly 6s on my L2.
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Ah well that does give me an idea yes, I got all 4's and no 5's on my L1. What do you have to get to pass L2 though? Can you pass with mostly 5's and some 6's I wonder rather than mostly 6's like you got?
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In general I did think that there was a much bigger change in demand from L2 to ISIA than there was from L1 to L2, but the step up in performance was not consistent across the different elements.
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This I would expect to hear but interesting that some elements are not as much of a step up as others as you have elaborated below.
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On piste didn't seem such a big step up, off-piste would need a solid performance but still not a massive change, but bumps really was a whole different level of demand. However, that might just reflect how rubbish I am in bumps compared to on and off-piste!
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Yes, you are right (I'm sure you're not that bad at Bumps!) someone else whose niche area is Bumps and is not so good at Off Piste for example might say they felt there was a bigger step up for Off Piste.
I'd best get them all sorted then!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ISIA tech course in the bumps on the Leisse in Tignes on one ski
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dont depress me even further.. i can see 2 weeks of torture and failure in my future
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