 Poster: A snowHead
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The week of Feb 14-21, I am trying to find the perfect ski resort (area) in Europe for my family after just having moved to London from the US. And yes, I am one of the kids.
I am, I believe, a strong advanced/expert skier at 13 years old. I have only skied in the United States. I lived in New York, and can easily ski all runs at Hunter Mountain. I have skied in Lake Tahoe, and confidentially skied most of the chutes in Mott Canyon at Heavenly, including the harder ones such Bill's and Snake Eyes in good form. This I believe could give you a general idea of my level.
Anyways, the US I would think is very much different skiing than the alps. I have never skied off-piste, never been on such a huge mountain, never skied in a different country with a language I don't know. So what I am looking for is the best ski resort for me.
And what exactly would the best ski resort for me be? A resort in which I can find my way around while having challenging runs awaiting me. My parents don't care about nightlife. My little sister needs easy runs (greens and blues in the US). Easy to meet up with each other for lunch. No guide needed. (Is this possible if I wish to ski off-piste alone? If not, then forget this.) Perhaps an unrivaled size when compared to the US? (since I heard alps resorts are bigger than colorado/western US resorts.)
I'm thinking of St.Anton but then there's so much nightlife that it's like I should not go and wait to do it when I'm at a party age (lol) so all help is welcome.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To be honest, your parents probably won't let you go off by yourself for the whole day at 13, especially in a totally foreign country to you  . The big European resorts, on the whole, are a lot steeper than US ones so as you are an "expert", you should be totally at home here......
St Anton is awesome, but when you say you should wait till you are at a "party age", you got a loooong wait so probably easier to ski it now. If you are after a big area, any of the big resorts would be more than fine for you!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skiking4, Welcome to Snowheads. Any medium to large European resort is going to be just fine as it'll have slopes for both you and your family. France, Austria and Switzerland all have "mega" resorts which are fun to visit and have endless variation. St Anton has excellent skiiing -you can party anywhere when your older, its the skiing thats important. You will find English speaking guides/instructors in all resorts. Others will be along with ideas but I'll kick off with Morzine in the Savoie as its huge and varied.
Its perfectly legal but I would never do this from a safety perspective, always take a companion or better still a qualified guide.
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Is this possible if I wish to ski off-piste alone?
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Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 28-09-08 13:27; edited 1 time in total
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skiking4, Just be aware that the week you mentioned is half-term week for all of the UK and much of the rest of Europe. It will be busy and expensive. There might not be much left to book by now too, so your choices might be limited.
And welcome to snowHeads. (We still do this, yes?)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mott and Killebrew are reasonably demanding skiing and in Europe you will find plenty of tracked and bumped off piste like that near the pistes. However strictly all European offpiste has the same status as US out of bounds/crossing a rope. You won't get arrested but you are outside the patrolled and controlled ski area and therefore you and your partner should have the relevant safety gear (transceiver/shovel/probe), routefinding and terrain reading ability and ability to self rescue. Bear in mind that the size of the mountains means you can get very lost quite quickly & a cellphone won't save you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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How much would it cost to hire a guide per day? And yes, I know it's half-term week in the UK, so how long will the lines be lifts at various mountains? BTW, I am looking for a very famous mountain and not a lesser-known mountain because if I'm lucky I might go ONE other time in my LIFE.
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| skiking4 wrote: |
| How much would it cost to hire a guide per day? And yes, I know it's half-term week in the UK, so how long will the lines be lifts at various mountains? BTW, I am looking for a very famous mountain and not a lesser-known mountain because if I'm lucky I might go ONE other time in my LIFE. |
Around Euro 300-350 a day
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if I'm lucky I might go ONE other time in my LIFE
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Why? You have the whole of your life mapped out already?
Probably the most 'famous' resorts in France would be Espace Killy and the Trois Vallees (from an Anglophone point of view anyway). However, they are pricey and will be exceeding busy that week.
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I wish to ski off-piste alone
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You REALLY don't want to be doing that. (Although Europe differs from the States in that you can if you like and no-one will arrest you for it. They might not bother looking for your body until the spring though. ) And I think it unlikely that a guide would take you on your own as a minor, so you will have to persuade a parent.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So if I have no one close to my ability in my family and not hiring a guide--and I'm pretty sure I won't ski off piste by myself--am I better off to go skiing in the US and not in Europe?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
By simply reading this board, you would think Europeans never ski off-piste. But that's not true in reality. They're actually all over the side of the piste and between them too. I've skied with many of snowheads off-piste, without transceiver!
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There are plenty of Euros who never ski off piste and plenty more who do it without realising that they are not insured or understanding incremental dangers. Often a number of days past the last snowfall risk is minimal but then I've also seen gangs of Euro skiers barging past pisteurs trying to shut a piste because anyone with any sense could spot the huge wet peals coming off the ridge above.
I would always say to those wanting to dabble without investing in skills or equipment that US & Canada are better places to practice because of control and even flagging of hazards.
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As far as avalanche control, the US is definitely a "better" shot due to the concept of "inbound off-piste", which is avalanche controlled. Note I said "better", because last year there was a record number of inbound avalanche and a few people were killed ON PISTE when the slide swept down. 
As for off-piste hazard OTHER THAN AVALANCHE, I don't think there's that big of a difference between US and Europe. I've found myself in the bottom of a gully or "in the creek" just enough to know inbound doesn't means blasting blindly down the slope. The saying is "if you can SEE IT, you can ski it".
| skiking4 wrote: |
| So if I have no one close to my ability in my family and not hiring a guide--and I'm pretty sure I won't ski off piste by myself--am I better off to go skiing in the US and not in Europe? |
Put the off-piste part away. You need to ski in Europe to know what it's like and form your own opinion.
This is an internet forum. Not the bible.
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You know it makes sense.
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abc, I don't think I disagree with you - I've fallen in creeks in the woods in Canada and on piste in Scotland, and I'm aware of inbounds slides like the one filmed at Mammoth. Crevasses are an additional Euro hazard plus at least many places in NA cliff hazards are flagged/taped and permanent closure areas well signed. Once you've ducked the ropes in Europe you really have to read the terrain yourself though of course there is plenty of relatively safe gentle terrain within sight of the pistes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| skiking4 wrote: |
| BTW, I am looking for a very famous mountain and not a lesser-known mountain because if I'm lucky I might go ONE other time in my LIFE. |
That screams Zermatt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, I wasn't refering to your comment specifically. But I was a bit annoyed at too many Euro's thinking all piste are 100% safe (from terrain hazards), then they infer that to include the inbound off-piste area in NA. That's really not true at all. I've gone off cliffs "accidentally" in NA too many time to count and I'm not even a double black diamond dare devil! Granted, those are the kind of cliffs you can "see" that is unlikely to kill you unless you're really very unlucky. (the truly dangerous cliffs are usually flagged/roped off indeed)
I certainly would NOT encourage a 13 year old to go off piste into the unknown all by himself. But there's off-piste, then there's OFF piste.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skiking4, I should stop paing attention to these old farts and their witterings if I were you.
Pick a European resort - if you think you're unlikely to get the chance again, you should grab it now. For a family of mixed abilities you want variety of runs and easy meeting points for everyone. Of the places I know, I recommend Alpe d'Huez, Risoul, Montgenevre/Claviere (ski both France and Italy in the same week - might appeal to your little sister). I don't particularly recommend 2Alpes, Serre Chevalier, Espace Killy or Courchevel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Think Les arcs and la plagne maybe... plent of safe off piste. easy to navigate and lots of meeting points and large variety of different runs.
Is a snow park inportant to you? There are a couple at Risoul which are good. Also has great off piste within the trees lower down and you dont have to venture too far to really be in the thick of it 
Why will you only have ONE more opportunity in life to go ??
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skiking4, None of us understand why you might not get another chance! However, although I casn't speak for Austria and Switzerland, in France you'll find that you can join the local ski school to go on suitable runs with others of your ability. Ski school here is much cheaper (AIUI) than in NA, and there are classes right up to competition level, and off piste would also be included. You've been advised on some suitable resorts, I suggest you look for the schools on their websites and email to find out what they offer to suit someone of your age and ability. You sister can also join and then she'll get off the green/blues. You may not know, but in europe most people go skiing for a whole week at a time and join the ski school on that basis. All big resorts will divide their classes and will be taught in english - speacially that week.
After that - enjoy
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I guess he may not get another chance because he is over here with his dad's work and it could be just on secondement or something similar?
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skiking4, Welcome to Good luck with your search, I have put a few suggestions below but at the end of the day it is up to you. As above as soon as you leave the marked piste in Europe it = out of bounds in America. I would be checking with the oldies in relation to insurance etc before you go and probably best to have someone with you who knows the area.
St Anton is amazing and I would reccomend it but for one thing
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My little sister needs easy runs (greens and blues in the US)
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Not a great Choice in St Anton. Lech or zurs down the road might be a good choice and you can ski across to St Anton. The local ski club also do off piste days whic are about €50 a day as far as I can remember.
Austria is more rounded as a family choice especially for the week you are talking about but Flaine is not a bad suggestion.
laundryman, It does indeed scream Zermatt
Happy skiing
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skiking4, St Anton rocks and you would probably enjoy yourself but if your little sister is a bit of a novice, then probably not the place to stay. I've taken my 3 kids (4 7 and 11) to Oberlech, which sits just above Lech and we all loved it. Not cheap though but ski school was good and some excellent eateries around the ski school meeting point. Also has a toboggan/sledge run down to Lech which was great fun. Oberlech is quiet at night but close enough to St Anton 20 mins in taxi to sample some brilliant apres ski.
www.oberlech.com good for finding out stuff and would highly recommend Hotel Montana in Oberlech. Great cruisy skiing around Oberlech/Lech and some good off piste too if you want to explore that.
Perfect English spoken, as is most of Austria. Small tip in getting instruction, get a private instructor during lunch break and costs a fraction of the price.
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I have actually heard from someone who I know that skies off-piste who says that it's safe to ski off-piste as long as you don't venture far. She skies at Trois Vallees.
And I probably will never get a chance again because I might never live in Europe; or depending on how this trip goes (if it goes good, I'll consider another trip later in m life)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skiking4 wrote: |
I have actually heard from someone who I know that skies off-piste who says that it's safe to ski off-piste as long as you don't venture far. She skies at Trois Vallees.
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And this kind of advice indicates precisely why people get killed every year  good luck - here's hoping your trip isn't after a heavy snowfall with category 4 or 5 hazard.
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| skiking4 wrote: |
I have actually heard from someone who I know that skies off-piste who says that it's safe to ski off-piste as long as you don't venture far. She skies at Trois Vallees.
And I probably will never get a chance again because I might never live in Europe; or depending on how this trip goes (if it goes good, I'll consider another trip later in m life) |
Skiking4 - I know you are only 13 and it's great that you are going to the trouble of researching a trip and asking for advice - it IS a great opportunity for you and your family to experience European skiing. But, as others are saying, you're unlikely to be able to ski off-piste, alone, in any resort. The cost of a guide for the day, which you SHOULD have in my opinion, is likely to be prohibitive. I think you could have an excellent ski trip with plenty of tough runs and excitement for you, with gentler runs for your sister, and Alpine charm for your mum, plus the fact that you are skiing in Europe  without the need to take risks off-piste. I have a 14 year old son and he's not doing it either
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skiking4, VERY sound advice, all round, from mountainaddict! 
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| skiking4 wrote: |
| And I probably will never get a chance again because I might never live in Europe; or depending on how this trip goes (if it goes good, I'll consider another trip later in m life) |
Don't get all hung up about this being the ONLY ONE ski trip you'll have in Europe. You're only 14. You can never tell what the rest of your life will be. Hell, I sure scouldn't tell what the rest of my life will be at 40!
Take the advice here and go to one of the resorts in Austria or Switzerland. You won't miss the off-piste half as much as you think.
| skiking4 wrote: |
I have actually heard from someone who I know that skies off-piste who says that it's safe to ski off-piste as long as you don't venture far. She skies at Trois Vallees.
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Oh boy! That's pretty dangerous advice...
It's not the distance from the piste, it's the layout of the land. One time in the fog, I found myself wondered off the side of the piste by a few feet. The slope drop off really quickly, turning a ~30 degree (unlikely to avilanche) to 45+ degree (prime avi angle) in less than 5 feet! Fortunately for me, it wasn't a day of heavy snow so I was able to safely ski back to the piste without triggering an avalanche (potentially burrying anyone below).
On the other hand of the spectrum, a piste bashed out of the middle of a gental field, having 200 skiers dodging each other like pin balls, is a whole lot more dangerous than the field next to it... (I'd much rather take my chance dodging rocks that don't move )
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You know it makes sense.
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Apparently, we are down to 3 resorts... actually the only three that are available (except for Verbier... don't want to go there)
My opinion (just by looking at the ski maps) (from least favorite to favorite):
3) Meribel
2) Courcheval
1) Val D'Isere
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Of those, I'd go for Courchevel and stay in 1650.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Meribel is British
Courchevel is apparently Russian though I have not been recently
Val d'Isere is yobbish
They all have pretty large pisted areas with plenty of usually reliable snow , will be crowded and expensive in the february break.
None are attractive.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| T Bar wrote: |
Val d'Isere is yobbish
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Yobbish? Whats that?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Loud rude Brits who drink too much and think they own the place.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Haha... all I really care about is the skiing
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skiking4, They all have good skiing
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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skiking4, I live near Boston but ski in Europe almost every year with my wife and son. He's 15 years old now. You definitely have to pick a resort in Europe and go this year. We have skied all over the Alps including all the places mentioned on this thread and it's been our experience that everywhere has been great in one way or another. If you can get your dad to spring for a guide it's worth it because the guide not only knows the best skiing, he knows the best restaurants, and he usually can cut any lines, lifts or restaurants included. Your parents will love that. On those days, or probably for the whole trip, your little sister should spend some time in ski school. They'll be other kids her age and she can have fun while you're having fun. If you like the sound of France go there. Switzerland, Italy, and Austria are all good too. Of the places mentioned in France Val d'Isere was my favorite. It's up at the end of a long road like Telluride. In France Chamonix is great too, but I think that's best saved for when you're older. I think my favorite places in Switzerland are too hard for your family, like Andermatt and Engelberg, and I think Zermatt will be too busy and not well laid out for school vacation week. In Italy, Monetrosa Ski in definitely my favorite and it won't be too busy so that could work for all of you guys. In Austria, St. Anton has wonderful skiing but a better place for the whole family would be Lech which is right next door and would make everyone happy. Check out Lech. I think that would fit the bill for all of you. It's a bit expensive there but maybe your parents will want to go anyway since you may not get another chance soon. Good luck and have a great time.
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I think I'm stuck between Val D'Isere and Corchevel now! Help...
BTW, these 4 (actually 3) are the only resorts available from the company my family is using.
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skiking4,
You will enjoy the skiing in either, your sister will greatly prefer the gentler runs in Courchevel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skiking4, FWIW I think Val d'Isere has much more varied skiing, and although there aren't that many greens in the village, there is a nice area with easy runs called solaise, and if you go over towards Tignes there are plenty of easy 'motorways' for your sis. Val D is much prettier than either Courcheval (expensive and dull) or Merible (england in france). There are also a number of really good guide/schools in Val D for you to get some excellent help and ski some really good routes.
Hope you have a good time.
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skiking4,
If you are going for predominatly piste skiing...which you will be..then Val. The 3V only really appeals if you want to get away from everything..which is pretty hard to do as there are lifts all over the place... one look at the potential off the back is another thing.
For a 1st look at Europe skiing both will work well and you'll have a good time so don't worry too much about the choice.
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FAQ
