 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A tree well is a dangerous void or area of loose snow typically surrounding a tree after a heavy snowfall. A skier or snowboarder can easily fall into this well, possibly causing serious injury or death.
The branches of the tree shelter the area surrounding the tree trunk from snowfall. Thus a pocket of air or loose snow can form in the vicinity of the trunk. Tree wells are encountered in off-piste or ungroomed trails and on ungroomed piste boundaries. The risk of encountering a tree well is greatest during and immediately following a heavy snowstorm. Low hanging branches can further contribute to forming a tree well, as they shelter the area surrounding the trunk. Wells can also occur near rocks and along streams. Wells have been observed to be as deep as 20 feet.
An unsuspecting skier or boardrider can get trapped in a tree well, being unable to free themselves. It is very difficult to get out of a tree well without assistance. In two experiments conducted in North America in which volunteers were temporarily placed in a tree well, 90% were unable to rescue themselves. Often the skier or boardrider is injured during the incident, dislocating a limb or hitting his head, further decreasing chances of survival. Frequently the skier or boardrider ends up in the well head first, complicating recovery efforts.
In December 2007, a snowboarder at Mount Hood Meadows in Oregon suffocated fifteen minutes after falling head first into a tree well, despite efforts by three of his companions to free him. During winter 2008, two skiers at Steamboat Ski Resort in Colorado fell into tree wells and did not survive. One was a man in his mid-60s and the other was a man in his mid-20s. The younger man was unable to escape despite assistance from two friends.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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you ski a tight path of line and get too close to a tree...
for some reason the snow is less deep around the base of a tree and so there is a hole to which a falling skier graviates...
Very tricky to get out of..and even worse if you fall head first.
I think they are a curse or skiers hex
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JP, what an extremely off-putting article! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Worse for snowboarders than skiers.
When snowboarding was still cool, c. 1990s  , I fell headfirst in to a tree well in L2A. It took me almost an hour to get out and none of my buddies had known where I had gone.
You can often tell a snowboarder who has boarded who has been to Canada as they have a whistle on their backpack close to their mouth.
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Yeah, probably those deaths have raised the awareness of them. Been skiing for years and it was in this month's ski & snowboard mag that they are mentioned repeatedly - and 2009 WTSS are all over them. Have to say, Mr PP fell into a 'bush well' once but it was pretty shallow. I got him out but unfortuntately for him he had to wait for 15 mins for me to stop laughing........ 
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parlor, so does the snow just collapse around your feet then or do you get tripped/catapulted into them. Well done for making it out!!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Guy died at Silver Star in a tree well, the day before I was there. They seem to be more of an important issue in Canada where there are very snow laden trees more often, and the snowpack is deeper. I've fallen into a few, and had to unclip my skis and climb out all of those times. If you fall into the well and hit the tree hard, thus dislodging the snow in the branches, its effectively like an avalanche. Buried with not much time to get out!! Sometimes they are bloody deep, think 3 metres deep!
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There have been many deaths mostly in N America) involving Tree Wells. Back Country / Off Piste although they are in resort boundaries as well.
Problem is they can be very Deep & once in one they often (avalanche) collapse in on top of you suffocating you. It is almost impossible for anyone to hear you shout when your in one.
http://www.howtoski.net/sub_column_treewells.htm
http://www.treewelldeepsnowsafety.com/
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 13-09-08 14:19; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Best to make sure you have companions to help you out, had a dear friend fall in head first with her pants around her ankles quite funny since my girlfriend and her boyfriend were around to get her out.
Grand Targhee is famous for tree wells and having the snow popsicle a rider after hitting a tree and yes people have died.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Fell in a tree well last winter after getting sloppy on a powder day. My buddy was ahead but by the time I'd sorted myself was out of earshot. I had a whistle but there was no traffic coming through. Fortunately I twisted myself going in so I still had 1 ski and head up. Nevertheless it took a significant time to climb out as the tree trunks and my ski were the only solid things to get resistance off.
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You know it makes sense.
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A friend of a friend died opening day at Revelstoke this year-tree well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I also fell in to a tree well skiing in the back bowls at Lake Louise a few years ago, fortunately I only had my left leg drop in to it, but it was still a hell of a struggle to get out as my right leg was forced towards my face, I neve could do the splits! My instinct was to push with down with my left hand and sure enough nothing there for leverage.
I had never really thought anything about the dangers until reading this thread and some of the links posted by Stanton.
I also wasn't aware that they were called tree wells, A great thread, thanks for asking the initial question Parkyparcours.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
There have been many deaths mostly in N America) involving Tree Wells
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You can only have tree well when you have trees! 
It's more of a problem in N. America because the tree lines are so much higher in N.A. so a lot of the skiing is done below treelines.
| Quote: |
| Been skiing for years and it was in this month's ski & snowboard mag that they are mentioned repeatedly - and 2009 WTSS are all over them. |
It had gotten more attention recently because it's now quite "fashionable" to ski in "trees". The tight trees makes the skiing challenging and fun. But not all tree skiers realize the danger of tree wells.
Depending on the elevation of the area, the "trees" maybe evergreens or hardwood. Hardwood trees don't have low hanging branches so have relatively small (if at all) tree wells, while pines have BIG (wide & deep) tree wells. I've "found" a couple of them by accident (though luckily never FELL in), from skiing a bit too close to the trees in years past. But it wasn't until the last couple years that I relate the danger myself.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 13-09-08 18:39; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Had to rescue my wife from one in Grand Targhee some years ago. This was before helmets and I found her giggling stuck head down with her head next to the trunk...
They have a reputation that the more you struggle, the more you pull snow on top of you.
Much less of a problem in Yerp as to get a tree well you require decent powder snow below the treeline 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| parlor wrote: |
| You can often tell a snowboarder who has boarded who has been to Canada as they have a whistle on their backpack close to their mouth. |
I always have a whistle attached to the zip of my jacket so its near my mouth and buddy up in the trees cos its so easy to lose track of where everyone in a group is in the trees. Don't do trees on your own. Have seen people in tree wells and the more they wriggle the more stuck they get.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm 6'4" and couldn't touch the bottom... 3m snowpack and it must of been 2.5m deep. my feet were wedged into the snow to stay up. Some smartarse hid their beacon there on my avvy 1...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Oh, and I don't see how a whistle could possibly save a life if you're actually in a position where you could suffocate and not save yourself.
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DaveC, scary that someone would have a job to see you right up next to that tree there with just your upper body out of the snow.
Now silly question now, but if someone doesn't fall in a tree well headfirst then surely their skis will stop them falling down into it? Assuming their bindings don't release in a tree crash and the skis come off?
Another good reason to never take both your skis off as well come to think of it. Unless you've just pulled up outside a restaurant or something obviously.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| Oh, and I don't see how a whistle could possibly save a life if you're actually in a position where you could suffocate and not save yourself. |
If you can blow your whistle you are more likely to be heard and someone realise you are in trouble than by shouting - it can be hard to hear anyone in the trees. Even if your head is not down a tree well and covered in snow if you are stuck which can happen easily in deep powder you may not be able to get yourself up or may fall further down if you try to get out.
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hels_t, is your whistle one of those mega loud jobbies? Plastic or alloy?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I had a plastic one. Need to get a new one. You need to make sure it will work in the cold and if it gets snow in it. The old style whistles with a little ball in them can get frozen up so they won't work.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hels_t, yeah I was thinking the old ones with a ball in them would have probs with snow/cold because it gets stuck to the inside of the whistle I suppose.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Glad I asked! Def off to get a whistle now - thanks for all the stories. We're off on a big powder chasing trip this season and so good timing. Whats interesting is that it had never occurred to me to get a whistle for skiing - there are probably loads of other smart tips out there that you only find out from other people (normally over a vin chaud in the bar on a trip) and obviously from ski forums. Off to make my donation to pay pal 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Plastic whistle. Metal whistles freeze to lips...
Mine is in my pack - probably time to move it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tree wells are one situation where an AvaLung could come in very useful.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A friend of mine was skiing In North America last year, I can’t remember exactly where but all the skiing was back country and I think the area only had one lift the rest of the terrain was accessible by Cats.
Anyway he managed to take a bit of a fall and ended up being suspended upside down in a tree well with his skis bridging the gap. He was unable to release the skis and had to wait just over 5 mins until one of his party found and rescued him.
The fall ended his season and he needed an operation to put his knee right but he has a a good story out of it which he tells better than i do.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mollynmeg, Revelstoke?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hels_t, one of your grotty knuckle dragging friends got lost down a tree well when we hooked up in Whistler didn't he? Can't remember his name, but he was the younger one without the face fur.
I've gone down one in St Anton, when I was the last in an off piste group of snowboarders (c. 1990 when it was still cool), took me about 45 minutes to dig myself out, and severely limited my appetite for off piste traying.
I always carry a whistle with me, not just for tree wells.
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Kramer, that would have been Dave!
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hels_t, that was him. Took ages for his mate to dig him out. To be fair it wasn't a tree well, more of a stream well, but same principle.
You going back again this season?
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Kramer, would love to but prob not this year. Don't think I can spend too long too far away this year. Neil has got the same condo again this year so might go over to visit for a few weeks. Then some other buddies in Morzine for the season so more likely to go on an extended visit over there. Also fancy hitting up Gulmarg both for the riding and to quench a bit of the wanderlust I am getting again.
Intend getting at least a couple of months on snow. Just the inconvenience of work that needs to be done for a bit first.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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hels_t, you're such a bum!
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Kramer, hell yeah! I'd have it no other way!
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