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Lib Tech Skate Banana

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
has anyone got one?
if so what are they like compared to other boards youve tried
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm interested in these as well, one came in last winter for some repair, weird edge on it. Supposed to be excellent though.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ive heard the magne traction works very well on icy pistes
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I don't have one. In fact I haven't ridden any board with Banana tech yet, but I hear many good things. The Banana advertising/marketing stuff is cute (possibly too cute sometimes, although I generally like it).


2008/2009 Skate Banana

Basically the blurb from Lib Tech is that instead of standard snowboard camber (tip and tail closer to the floor than the center section where your binds are), the Skate Banana (and other boards with Banana design) contact the surface at and between your feet (rather than at the tail and tip of the board), allegedly making all-round control both on- and off-piste, buttering, grinding and so forth much easier, as well as decreasing your chances of catching an edge.


Skate Banana schematic - note the contact point in the center, which is quite different to most boards

The Skate Banana seems to find favour with a wide variety of riders (although possibly not extreme free-riders or extreme jib monkeys as there are more specialised boards from Lib Tech for either of those kindsa riders which still feature Banana technology). I would certainly look to get a Skate Banana, but only if they come out with a wider version for my XXL clodhoppers rolling eyes I may end up getting another Skunk Ape, as this season's model is available with optional Banana (unlike last year when it was only MagneTraction).

You can read more on the Lib Tech Skate Banana official site, or more usefully you could check out some reviews or posts on other forums, or an interview with Pete Saari (Lib Tech Marketing VP and all-round snowboarding innovator for the last 25 years or so). I have included one thread where someone starts out by dissing the Skate Banana (for fairness and balance and whatnot).

The weird edge stab is talking about is Magnetraction, another Lib Tech weird/wonderful innovation. The idea behind this is that instead of 2 contact points on your edge (tip and tail), Magnetraction offers 7 contact points, spreading the load and making you less likely to wash out. Many people have described it as like riding on a rail. It's worth mentioning that many people recommend* a special edge tool to tune Magnetraction boards due to the wavy edge shape (you can pick one up from OneBallJay for not too much cash). As far as I'm concerned, Magnetraction works and I won't buy another board without it, especially as a large proportion of my time on a board is spent on ice-hills, which is where it really comes into its own.

One final reason I end up recommending Lib Tech to everyone is sheer quality. They don't use the same Austrian and/or Chinese mass-production snowboards-built-by-robots factories as [url]just about everyone else[/url] - instead, they make every board by hand in their skunk works north of Seattle. Eash new board comes with a sticker saying who built and finished it, and if you're so inclined, you could go to the place and meet them. Build quality is extremely high, and Lib Tech have been working on making their build procedures more eco-friendly for a long time (i.e. before it was cool).

Basically, I defy anyone to come up with 3 good reasons for you not to test this board. I reckon you'll probably buy it if you do. I know it's important not to drink too much Kool-Aid from any one company (in any field, not just snowboarding), but Lib Tech does seem to more or less live up to the hype. At any rate, if it's good enough for Travis Rice, then it ought to be good enough for the rest of us. Cool

Full disclosure: Shalli has no affiliation, direct or indirect, with Lib Tech or any commercial snowsports organisation. However, he does like Lib Tech a lot both for their artisan ideology/quality and their tech innovation, and reckons his Skunk Ape is a fantastic board.

* corrected the bit about needing the special edge tool as Lizzard is right - it's not necessary


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 21-08-08 8:58; edited 1 time in total
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Shallimus wrote:
I Basically, I defy anyone to come up with 3 good reasons for you not to test this board. [/size]



1. The picture isnt very good
2. thats it, even I cant knock that board.
3. I'm betting burton come out with magna traction next year and claim it as their invention.
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it would be good to try one out at a resort but who would do it?
end of season board test maybe?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
nigel b, Mr Lizzard has one of those type boards and swears by the grip on almost any thing. Not too sure about procedure for edge up-keep though?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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rayscoops
hopefully he may surface and let us know
Shallimus
thanks for that,a bit different to the norm

an email i got back from lib tech
If you let me know when and where you want to test I may be able to hook you up with an authorised account that have some test boards.
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rayscoops, Mr L rode a K2 Darkstar for most of last season, decided that the wiggly edge thing was irrelevant for an advanced boarder.

Sorry. Crying or Very sad
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Lizzard
another good choice of board too
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Lizzard, I remember you posting that he takes it to bed with him and that he would speed past those gnarly young'uns on the icy flats and that he loved it?
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rayscoops, so he did. But his boarding has improved such that he can do the same on the Darkstar. Final verdict is that the wibbly edges help, but if you're good enough you don't need it.

Shallimus, you don't need any kind of special tool for magnetraction boards - people are just trying to rootle in your wallet again, I'm afraid.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Lizzard, so does having those edges on a board have the same effect for a boarder as carving skis have in making an average skier look better than he/she actually is?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rayscoops, if thet's the effect they have, then the average skier must be very poor indeed. Laughing And what do you mean by 'carving skis' anyway? I accuse you of knowing bog all about skiing, you mere snowboarder. Laughing
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Lizzard, i bow to your greater knowledge in all things snow wink , but it has been suggested in the BzK section that carver skis can make a bad skier look better and go quicker without having to put in the 'hard yards' and I was wondering whether the curly edged board did the same and rendered an average boarder in to a carving monster ? in which case i need one Laughing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rayscoops, no, you need a lesson and some practice. And what are you doing reading that bendy knees rubbish anyway? You trainspotter.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Lizzardhow new is your darkstar?
i had the 05/06 board but had to replace it due to manufacturing defect with the 06/07 model which i found was alot better

something i found

Fellow Riders, I am the UK Brand Manager for both Lib-tech and Gnu. I am super stoked to see so much interest on the forums for Banana boards and the concept of reverse camber. I would like to offer some info and advice on the boards to help everyone understand this new technology. With this in mind I have put together something beneath to help enlighten those who are interested in this technology and to inform any non-believers that this is the way forward for snowboard design!!!
I am not into being negative about other brands as every board manufacturer is offering good boards with their own take on things. You will never hear me put another brand down as we all have to work together in this industry to make sure that you guys get the most out of your boards, and ultimately have a rad time on the snow (or whatever surface you manage to ride day to day).

A quick lesson (for those that do not know).

The idea of the ‘Camber’ comes from the ski industry to allow the skier to travel faster on hard pack. When increasing the distance between the nose and tail of the ski the implication of a camber reduces the friction over the surface directly under the skier’s foot, therefore allowing an increase in speed. So the first thing to consider is that a Snowboard is not a ski, this is why the innovation of reverse camber (or the Rocker) is going to revolutionise the snowboard industry.
Reverse Camber boards are being offered through Mervin Manufacturing (Lib-tech and Gnu), K2, Never Summer and Stepchild (although this is rumoured and I have not seen the Stepchild boards yet). However, the boards offered by Lib-tech and Gnu are completely different to other ‘reverse camber’ boards available on the market for 2 reasons.

Boards offered with reverse camber from K2 and NS both use the rocker on the outside of the bindings towards the nose and tail of the board. The board area between the feet (or bindings) is flat. This is great for floating in powder and shredding some back country but these I would argue that these boards do not perform as well as the Lib-tech boards when on piste, or in the park / pipe. One reason for this is that the boards coming out of the Mervin Factory have the rocker or the ‘BANANA’ between the feet with the area either side of the bindings being flat.

By taking the premise that a snowboard is not a ski, the Banana allows your weight to press the rocker out and apply pressure inward to the edge area at and between your feet. By combining Banana with Magne-Traction (MTX) the board offers a larger more effective edge and therefore an uncompromised edge hold, essentially this makes snowboarding easier and more fun.

For those who do not know Magne-Traction (wiggles that work) implements a wavy edge to the board and replaces the antique sidecut seen on the more conventional snowboard. By giving the board seven points of contact (instead of the standard 2) MTX allows the board to cut into the surface and turn ice and hard pack into powder. For example, take a normal calving knife (with the straight blade) and try cutting into bread, notice how it does not work and just squashes the bread leaving it deformed and unappetising. Now take a serrated bread knife and see how easy this slices the bread, leaving a nice slice of bread ready to be dressed with some chocolate spread and happily devoured. This is the exact principle behind MTX. Every freestyle board should have MTX as it massively improves edge hold and gives more control under foot.

So, when you see BTX follow the name of a Lib-tech or Gnu board it simply means the combination of Banana Rocker and Magne-Traction. A lot of people do not realise but it’s the MTX that is the quintessential aspect in making BTX so efficient and successful (When you combine the sales of both Lib-tech and Gnu for the USA they were the second biggest selling boards after Burton).

The second reason that Lib-tech and Gnu boards are so different is through the manufacturing process. Mervin Manufacturing are the world’s most environMENTAL snowboard factory and are super focused on making sure that we do not destroy what we came to enjoy. They use non-petroleum based bio-plastics made from castor beans for their top skins (drop beans not bombs), they only use renewable forest products for their cores (fast growing trees have longer fibres and more natural pop. Wood is nature’s fibreglass). The factory has a 2000% air replacement ventilation system so no toxins are pumped into the environment, they use canola based bio-diesels to power the factory and pets are encouraged to stay out of the grinding areas. At the end of the day ‘core’ shops don’t let kids ride toxic Chinese toys!!!!!

The effects of Banana boards are easy to see when you watch both Travis Rice and Danny Kass ride. These guys now ride nothing but Banana and are killing everything they hit (check out Travis’s new film, That’s it That’s All, being released in Sept/Oct). These guys both have banana pro models and as far as I am aware these are the only signature models on the market with reverse camber. I have not seen any other ‘top’ pro’s shredding the park and pipe at the top level on any other reverse camber boards from other manufacturers. For me that shows the diversity of Mervin Banana boards and why they are the best all mountain boards / freestyle boards available on the market. They are loose and catch free, press boxes, rails and jib extremely well. The stiffened nose and tail gives more pop (and prevents the boards from folding in chunky conditions). They turn easily on hard pack and ice when the built in rocker is put on edge. And obviously the Banana gives amazing results in powder with unprecedented float (have you ever ridden powder switch before?).

The future really is BANANA’S............

The RRP for Lib-tech and Gnu boards for next season (0809) is as follows:

Lib-Tech
Sk8 Banana BTX £369
TRS BTX £420
T Rice BTX £415
Jamie Lynne Phoenix Blonde BTX £405
Mark Landvik Phoenix BTX £405
MC Kink £390
Skunk Ape BTX (for the larger rider) £425
Dark Series BTX £500
Box Scratcher BTX £340

GNU
Danny Kass Vertighoul BTX £415
Riders Choice BTX £410
Street Series BTX £345
B Street BTX (Girls) £345
B Pro BTX (Girls) £375

Notice how much the price has dropped from previous years and now we are offering more innovation with the some best technologies available. I have worked extremely hard to get these prices to where they are so we can be competitive with importing boards from America. For next season I have made an agreement with Mervin Manufacturing to block any American / Canadian websites and mail order stores supplying any UK customers. Mervin are super keen support this and have informed every authorised US retailer to respect these rules. Last year it cost approximately £350-£380 to get a Skate Banana from America (which retailed at £410 last year in the UK). This cost was made up through the purchase of the board ($465), the 6-8% US sales tax (similar to our VAT), the delivery charge ($50-80), the import Tax (10%) and then the VAT (17.5%). After spending all that cash you then had to wait 4 weeks for delivery. This year for the sake of a possible few extra quid (about £10) you can pick up any Lib or Gnu board and have it there and then. You will also receive a better service from UK based stores as well as a better after sales service. RIDE EVERYWHERE, SHOP LOCAL !!!!!!

So join the Lib-tech and Gnu experiMENATL division as they journey out of the dark Camberian period into the new age of FRUITY ENLIGHTENMNET.............Ride forth into the future on a BANANA!!!!

The Future is BANANAS.........
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Lizzard, actually last season i managed nearly 30 full days on the snow so i am getting my practice (more hours than you maybe ? wink ) but can not be @rsed with lessons (unless it is for jumps and tricks) btw - in BzK winding them up most of the times Laughing
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Quote:

can not be @rsed with lessons

Not going to get any better then, are you? NehNeh

nigel b, it's Mr L's and he bought it last February. And the net effect of that little tirade by Lib Tech's 'super stoked brand manager' is to put me off ever buying any of their kit. What a tosser. Evil or Very Mad
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Lizzard, yes Very Happy
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Couple of questions I'd put to him: 1 are they all the companies offering boards with "reverse camber"? I suggest that all boards (and skis) have it. 2 why is improved edge hold essential for freestyle? All the park rats I've seen advocate filing down as much of the edge as you dare. 3 do his other pros not ripping up the park/pipe include Shaun White and Anti Autti? I'm not a pro by any means but they seem to do pretty well IMO.
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Quote:

(more hours than you maybe ? )

In your dreams. Laughing
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Lizzard, he seems fairly open minded but is also trying to stop people buying the same gear cheaper from the us,which in doing so it puts the gear to snowboard shops in the uk but at a premium like burton do
his aim is to put libtech/gnu where burton are
Swirly, there is i think libtech/gnu,k2 and 1 or 2 other companies with reverse camber style boards
improved edge for the park as a pipe can be very icy,but as you say people like shawn white do ok
is alot just marketing hype and do the average run of the mill snowboarders notice it if they were gave 2 indentical looking boards but not got told what they were
thats why if i was to get one i would have to try it out,see what its like compared to my darkstar
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rayscoops wrote:
I was wondering whether the curly edged board did the same and rendered an average boarder in to a carving monster ?

I doubt it. The main point of magnetraction is edge hold in crappy conditions. It's not going to turn you into the King of the Eurocarvers Neh Neh
Swirly wrote:
1 are they all the companies offering boards with "reverse camber"? I suggest that all boards (and skis) have it. 2 why is improved edge hold essential for freestyle? All the park rats I've seen advocate filing down as much of the edge as you dare. 3 do his other pros not ripping up the park/pipe include Shaun White and Anti Autti? I'm not a pro by any means but they seem to do pretty well IMO.

1. Dunno how many companies offer reverse camber boards. I'm not aware of any others beyond Lib (and associates), K2 and Bataleon. Not sure what you mean re: all boards and skis having it...?
2. Better edge hold is nice - you'll have more control in that you'll fall down less. The reason people file down edges (as I suspect you already know) is to remove the possibility of catching on a burr or nick in the board-edge and slamming off the rail/box/wall/whatever. So they're not filing down the edges to reduce edge hold - the blurb from Lib Tech is that you can detune your Magnetraction board (to avoid burrs/nicks) and still have good grip on packed snow thanks to the wavy edge. True? I dunno - I'm not a park rat, far from it - but enough people seem to like it.
3. That's not really a fair comparison. What he actually said was this:
Anonymous marketing dude wrote:
I have not seen any other ‘top’ pro’s shredding the park and pipe at the top level on any other reverse camber boards from other manufacturers.

As Shawn White and Antti Autti don't ride reverse camber boards (but do undoubtedly ride like demons in both park and pipe) it doesn't matter. What he's saying is that he hasn't seen any non-Lib Tech reverse camber boards under the feet of top level pros.

I realise (as per my first post) that the Lib Tech marketing speak can be obnoxious, but as I also point out there is a lot of support for them in the grassroots. They may just be a bit too radical (duuuuuude! Cool ) for our European sensibilities at times. The boards speak for themselves...
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Shallimus, we need to put a character limit on you ... you post like a skier Laughing
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Not obnoxious, he sounds like Burton.
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Swirly wrote:
Not obnoxious, he sounds like Burton.

Now I feel dirty... Sad

...because you're not a million miles wrong.

On the plus side:
money + hype + mass production + marketing = Burton

but:
(Burton - money) + craftsmanship + innovation = Lib Tech

These are scientific equations and therefore I still don't feel too bad Cool
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DebbiDoesSnow wrote:
Shallimus, we need to put a character limit on you ... you post like a skier Laughing

...and this might make me feel even dirtier (and still not in a good way)! wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've ridden one, and it's a good ride. Is it the best? Well, I'm not that on it these days - been riding 20 years but a bit on and off and lacking focus over the years - and to me there are others out there which feel pretty similar without the wobbly bendy bits. Worth a try if you get the chance, but there are plenty of good choices. Does it turn ice into powder? Er, no. Does it grip well on hardpack? Yes. Would it be the only board I'd buy? To be honest, I prefer something stiffer and floatier. But that's just me.
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I like the acknowledgement from the brand manager that UK punters are basically paying double the retail price of those in the US and he's taking steps to protect it by blocking US & Canadian sales to the UK. Its business but I think I'd be shopping non-local for that stuff.
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fatbob, I hadn't even noticed that bit, he says the difference is £350-380 versus £410 and then says this is about £10. Given £60 is about £10 (his reasoning) I think I'll have one for £60 rather than the rrp.
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Lib-Tech and Gnu are all part of Quiksilver, like Rossignol.
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and they both come out the same factory
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True, nigel b. GNU tends to take tech from the Lib Tech line a year or two after it first appears.
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I had a good look at some lib tech something or other last week with teh magna traction, I see how it works for sure but don't think it is the be all and end all of ice riding, must definitely help though if you're after that sort of thing and cant ride on ice. By ice I mean tourist ice (hard piste) and not obviously frozen water, frozen water is the devil himself and nothing will save you except going straight.
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nigel b wrote:
has anyone got one?
if so what are they like compared to other boards youve tried


I just tested one the other week in castleford. not the best place but better than nowt.
It rode really well i was surprised coz i thought that it'd just be a gimik but i really enjoyed it . it's easy to ride and butters like a butter knife! it would be interesting to see what's it's like on a mountain.

i think if i was going to buy a one for all mountain use i would go for the jamie lynn it's a little stiffer but just as much fun! Madeye-Smiley
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Shallimus wrote:
Swirly wrote:
Not obnoxious, he sounds like Burton.

Now I feel dirty... Sad

...because you're not a million miles wrong.

On the plus side:
money + hype + mass production + marketing = Burton

but:
(Burton - money) + craftsmanship + innovation = Lib Tech

These are scientific equations and therefore I still don't feel too bad Cool


You guys are funny do you not know that lib is owned by quicksilver who also own DC and quite a few others

Burton is owned buy a snowboarder who still snowboards and also puts a lot back into the sport yes they are still a bit cheesy but it's a snowboard company owned and started by a snowboarder.

Most other companies want to be where Burton is but they can't do it so they sell out to big business men

K2 and ride are the best example they are owned by Shakespeare who make fishing rods!! Do you really want a board that is made by a fishing company?

Lib tech still make awesome boards as do Burton and many others! Just most of these little companies aren't always what they seem!
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snowhugger wrote:
You guys are funny do you not know that lib is owned by quicksilver who also own DC and quite a few others

Burton is owned buy a snowboarder who still snowboards and also puts a lot back into the sport yes they are still a bit cheesy but it's a snowboard company owned and started by a snowboarder.

Most other companies want to be where Burton is but they can't do it so they sell out to big business men

K2 and ride are the best example they are owned by Shakespeare who make fishing rods!! Do you really want a board that is made by a fishing company?

Lib tech still make awesome boards as do Burton and many others! Just most of these little companies aren't always what they seem!


/battens down the hatches ready for Shallimus's response Laughing

I <3 Burton, Burton <3 me, if they didnt then why would they have made gold bindings? Wink
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stab wrote:
snowhugger wrote:
You guys are funny do you not know that lib is owned by quicksilver who also own DC and quite a few others

Burton is owned buy a snowboarder who still snowboards and also puts a lot back into the sport yes they are still a bit cheesy but it's a snowboard company owned and started by a snowboarder.

Most other companies want to be where Burton is but they can't do it so they sell out to big business men

K2 and ride are the best example they are owned by Shakespeare who make fishing rods!! Do you really want a board that is made by a fishing company?

Lib tech still make awesome boards as do Burton and many others! Just most of these little companies aren't always what they seem!


/battens down the hatches ready for Shallimus's response Laughing

I <3 Burton, Burton <3 me, if they didnt then why would they have made gold bindings? Wink


It's not what they look like it's what you do with them!
Anyway i thought all the kids hid there bindings with their pants?
Doesn't Mr Rice ride Cartels?

It all comes down to riders needs!
every should be able to buy what ever brand they like and shouldn't be bothered what is cool or uncool

look at these kids in their tight pants that was a skier thing when i started to ride now the skiers are going baggy and the snowboarders are going tight?

It's all good! It's not what you ride it's how you ride it! snowHead too snowHead too snowHead too
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