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Kick turns.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Not taught by easiski. Forbidden by the Arlberg Ski School instructor I had last season. Apparently they can cause injury - yet they are essential sometimes when touring (though the touring binding makes the action rather different from than with an alpine binding). I can recall one occasion when a kick turn saved me from serious injury, at least.

I think they should still be used - and practised occasionally. What's your view?
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What sort of injury are they alleged to cause achilles ? I find them useful (and latterly an embarassing indication of how stiff my hips are getting rolling eyes , must do more practice on the lawn). Surely uphill kick-turns are (almost) essential when ascending some slopes (although nice guides try to avoid them if possible Laughing )?
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Still use em occasionally to get out of sticky situations, or when bored waitnig around Toofy Grin

Another one of those handy little skills once taught never forgotten, sometimes used and rarely seen on the slopes these days Laughing
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Yoda, not really sure- hips and knees? Perhaps the professionals can comment. I got the impression that the instructors' insurance would throw a wobbly if we did them and got hurt. From my limited experience, I agree uphill kick turns are essential on some tours.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Uphill kick turns are ok.... don't use them for downhill, don't find them that easy
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Essential to know how to do them once you're skiing gnarly off piste. Not something to teach beginners / intermediates as they used to in the old days.
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I've never done any touring and was wondering what an uphill kick turn was. I thought kick turns (which I do sometimes use as per Bones' post, no problem with hips or knees) were to get you pointing in exactly the opposite direction from that in which you started and which you execute usually when you're standing across the slope.
Puzzled
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hurtle, they do, but you "kick" the uphill ski rather than the downhill ski - when you're skinning uphill across the slope and need to change direction.
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Hurtle, there is a thread on this somewhere but to save me searching yes that's right. To perform that movement you would usually flip the downhill ski first and then bring the old uphill one below it, as there is more space to play with and hence less chance of catching the ski as you bring it round. When zig-zagging on a steep slope going uphill you need to have a way of moving from one zig onto the next zag, thus the uphill kick turn.
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I just can't picture that movement at all Puzzled Any diagrams or video to show a kick turn?
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beanie1, Yoda, ah, thanks. I can see that, if you're wanting to maintain a rhythm when zigzagging uphill, you would want to flip the uphill ski. I think that if the slope were extremely steep, I'd personally be more likely to adjust my stance to put me at 90 degrees to the slope and still turn the downhill ski! But it's all academic, I sadly can't see myself ever acquiring sufficient skills to tour.
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Hurtle wrote:
I think that if the slope were extremely steep, I'd personally be more likely to adjust my stance to put me at 90 degrees to the slope and still turn the downhill ski!

Might you loose height doing it that way? That's the last thing you'd want to do if you're hiking up hill.
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Hurtle, think about how you are going to lift that top ski and bring it round when you are standing on a pretty steep slope, probably wearing a heavy rucksack - do you really want to be doing that? wink Don't forget, your heels are free in this scenario.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Crampons and the skins give you little safeguard to going backwards...
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rob@rar, Yoda, JT, eek. Skullie QED. Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
halfhand, downhill version http://www.ehow.com/how_2143143_perform-kick-turn-skis.html
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Yoda, Cheers me-dears. I think I understand its that movement you do if you are stuck still and need to change direction as in about face? At the mid point you end up with each ski facing in opposite directions? I can do that just hand't heard it called a kick turn. Hadn't heard it called anything actually
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halfhand, It's a little easier, if you can keep moving during the turn, make it one movement without pauses.
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I can't do them, my legs don't go that way Sad
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
eng_ch, Which brings us to jump turns.... Laughing
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Yeah, JT,,, a very useful skill. People get hurt when they don't commit to the move, and end up stuck with legs going opposite ways, and ligaments a strechin. I don't use it much anymore. Just do a 180 hop turn. Jump up with both feet, spin 180 degrees, land and smile.
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FastMan wrote:
Jump up with both feet, spin 180 degrees, land and smile.


Oh the scope for disaster in that! Laughing
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Can't see how insurance companies would find cause for comment since the kick turn is a well recognised technique...however...definite potential for strainage, and a very high percentage of people don't seem to have enough external rotary flexibility in the hip sockets to actually physically be able to do this.

Still, a very useful "survival skiing" technique particularly in certain 'bottomless gloop' or crusty conditions. Properly mastered you can keep cruising travers-kick turn-traverse etc without stopping, and losing height fairly steadily..
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offpisteskiing wrote:
Can't see how insurance companies would find cause for comment since the kick turn is a well recognised technique.....


Don't know how authoritative this is on that:

Quote:
...While kick turns are not taught in many ski schools today (due to liability concerns)...
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Kick turns going uphill are easy, going downhill and in motion I can't really do them - too much worrying about what could go wrong with ligaments etc. But you should see my perfectly honed jump turn!
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achilles, Can't recall it being banned at any of the ski schools I ever worked in (Scotland, Italy, USA, NZ, France)...

horizon, going downhill & in motion....you definitely want to have it absolutely 100% sorted standing still before trying it on the move Very Happy
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I can think of a certain occasion on the last day in VT in April when it would have been very useful to have known how to do one!! Embarassed
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Can't understand all this fuss really - skis are so short nowadays that kickturns are neither difficult or dangerous as far as I'm concerned. The only time I hesitate doing a kickturn is on a very steep slope above a big drop or something, but obviously if you're in that situation you're in a bit of bother anyway and the alternatives may be even scarier. They're certainly tricky on a steep slope in touring gear with a big rucsack, but in normal gear on 99% of slopes what's the problem?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Plake wrote:
......but in normal gear on 99% of slopes what's the problem?


The problem was that our Austrian instructor would not let us do them. Not just that he would not teach them, he was adamant that we were not to do them.
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there are some kick turns in this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4540375926425149671
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I feel better. A ski vid that looks more like I could be there.
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