 Poster: A snowHead
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Not taught by easiski. Forbidden by the Arlberg Ski School instructor I had last season. Apparently they can cause injury - yet they are essential sometimes when touring (though the touring binding makes the action rather different from than with an alpine binding). I can recall one occasion when a kick turn saved me from serious injury, at least.
I think they should still be used - and practised occasionally. What's your view?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yoda, not really sure- hips and knees? Perhaps the professionals can comment. I got the impression that the instructors' insurance would throw a wobbly if we did them and got hurt. From my limited experience, I agree uphill kick turns are essential on some tours.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Uphill kick turns are ok.... don't use them for downhill, don't find them that easy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Essential to know how to do them once you're skiing gnarly off piste. Not something to teach beginners / intermediates as they used to in the old days.
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I've never done any touring and was wondering what an uphill kick turn was. I thought kick turns (which I do sometimes use as per Bones' post, no problem with hips or knees) were to get you pointing in exactly the opposite direction from that in which you started and which you execute usually when you're standing across the slope.
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Hurtle, they do, but you "kick" the uphill ski rather than the downhill ski - when you're skinning uphill across the slope and need to change direction.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, there is a thread on this somewhere but to save me searching yes that's right. To perform that movement you would usually flip the downhill ski first and then bring the old uphill one below it, as there is more space to play with and hence less chance of catching the ski as you bring it round. When zig-zagging on a steep slope going uphill you need to have a way of moving from one zig onto the next zag, thus the uphill kick turn.
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I just can't picture that movement at all Any diagrams or video to show a kick turn?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, Yoda, ah, thanks. I can see that, if you're wanting to maintain a rhythm when zigzagging uphill, you would want to flip the uphill ski. I think that if the slope were extremely steep, I'd personally be more likely to adjust my stance to put me at 90 degrees to the slope and still turn the downhill ski! But it's all academic, I sadly can't see myself ever acquiring sufficient skills to tour.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| I think that if the slope were extremely steep, I'd personally be more likely to adjust my stance to put me at 90 degrees to the slope and still turn the downhill ski! |
Might you loose height doing it that way? That's the last thing you'd want to do if you're hiking up hill.
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Hurtle, think about how you are going to lift that top ski and bring it round when you are standing on a pretty steep slope, probably wearing a heavy rucksack - do you really want to be doing that?  Don't forget, your heels are free in this scenario.
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You know it makes sense.
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Crampons and the skins give you little safeguard to going backwards...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yoda, Cheers me-dears. I think I understand its that movement you do if you are stuck still and need to change direction as in about face? At the mid point you end up with each ski facing in opposite directions? I can do that just hand't heard it called a kick turn. Hadn't heard it called anything actually
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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halfhand, It's a little easier, if you can keep moving during the turn, make it one movement without pauses.
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I can't do them, my legs don't go that way 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eng_ch, Which brings us to jump turns.... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yeah, JT,,, a very useful skill. People get hurt when they don't commit to the move, and end up stuck with legs going opposite ways, and ligaments a strechin. I don't use it much anymore. Just do a 180 hop turn. Jump up with both feet, spin 180 degrees, land and smile.
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| FastMan wrote: |
| Jump up with both feet, spin 180 degrees, land and smile. |
Oh the scope for disaster in that!
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Can't see how insurance companies would find cause for comment since the kick turn is a well recognised technique...however...definite potential for strainage, and a very high percentage of people don't seem to have enough external rotary flexibility in the hip sockets to actually physically be able to do this.
Still, a very useful "survival skiing" technique particularly in certain 'bottomless gloop' or crusty conditions. Properly mastered you can keep cruising travers-kick turn-traverse etc without stopping, and losing height fairly steadily..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| offpisteskiing wrote: |
| Can't see how insurance companies would find cause for comment since the kick turn is a well recognised technique..... |
Don't know how authoritative this is on that:
| Quote: |
| ...While kick turns are not taught in many ski schools today (due to liability concerns)... |
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Kick turns going uphill are easy, going downhill and in motion I can't really do them - too much worrying about what could go wrong with ligaments etc. But you should see my perfectly honed jump turn!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, Can't recall it being banned at any of the ski schools I ever worked in (Scotland, Italy, USA, NZ, France)...
horizon, going downhill & in motion....you definitely want to have it absolutely 100% sorted standing still before trying it on the move 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can think of a certain occasion on the last day in VT in April when it would have been very useful to have known how to do one!! 
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Can't understand all this fuss really - skis are so short nowadays that kickturns are neither difficult or dangerous as far as I'm concerned. The only time I hesitate doing a kickturn is on a very steep slope above a big drop or something, but obviously if you're in that situation you're in a bit of bother anyway and the alternatives may be even scarier. They're certainly tricky on a steep slope in touring gear with a big rucsack, but in normal gear on 99% of slopes what's the problem?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Plake wrote: |
| ......but in normal gear on 99% of slopes what's the problem? |
The problem was that our Austrian instructor would not let us do them. Not just that he would not teach them, he was adamant that we were not to do them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I feel better. A ski vid that looks more like I could be there.
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FAQ
, must do more practice on the lawn). Surely uphill kick-turns are (almost) essential when ascending some slopes (although nice guides try to avoid them if possible 
QED. 