 Poster: A snowHead
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Do you think carvers are more damaging or less damaging to the piste than the old long skinnys?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The_Hirsty, yes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Less damaging - if used properly 
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You see, that is the thing.
Skis aren't always used to carve and with the newer shape and dimensions of skis they must interface with the slope in a different fashion from the previous shape.
The shape is not unlike a snowboard and therefore may cut it up like a snowboard.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You say "damaging to the piste" like a "piste" is how it was naturally and can't be re-created overnight? Weird question. Kind of like asking if pole plants damage the piste...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Edges honed with ceramic sharpeners do tend to take the bristles down to the metal in no time at all.
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Is it really a weird question?
I am curious as to finding out which type of ski cuts up the piste.
I seem to remeber that with skinnys the piste was usually in a better condition later on in the day than presently with carvers, but then again memory can play tricks.
You often hear how snowboards supposedly cut up the piste more than skis but there has never been any mention of how parabolic skis have effected this.
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People cut up the piste. Does it matter? Not really - either get up earlier or learn to ski in more variable conditions. I wouldn't have thought "shaped" skis cut up the piste more than straights if any still exist. I've always thought the "snowboards ruin the piste" argument to be wee wee weak too. Some snowboarders who are veterans of the sideslip everywhere brigade certainly but trenchdiggers on alpine boards are few and far between (and so skilled at what they do are more than welcome to cut deep ruts in the snow IMO).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| The_Hirsty wrote: |
I seem to remeber that with skinnys the piste was usually in a better condition later on in the day than presently with carvers, but then again memory can play tricks.
You often hear how snowboards supposedly cut up the piste more than skis but there has never been any mention of how parabolic skis have effected this. |
I, too, learn to ski before snowboarding was popular. Never mind shaped skis. But I don't recall the piste being in any better shape than they are now in the afternoon. If anything, I think pistes are in better condition these days, morning or afternoon. With the exception of high traffic pistes, which is ALWAYS terrible even in the straight ski days.
I've not heard snowboarder "cut up" the piste worse than skis. What I often heard instead, is snowboards pushes all the snow away from the centre of the piste! That's got to do with a lot of snowboarders side-slipping down the piste instead of carving it.
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The_Hirsty, Interesting question, but it's not really a fair test to compare the state of pistes. Nowadays you've got lots of snowboards doing their thing too, which there wasn't too much of ten or so years ago.
Taking boards out of the equation, I'd say that on a blue/red piste with everyone on old-school skis - with snow ploughs and skidded stem turns etc the top layer would tend to get scraped. With everyone carving (properly, mind), the piste would probably tend to cut up and get loosened.
Who knows? filled five minutes though..... 
CD.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Our experience at Yad Moss and Raise is definately yes. Particularly from snowboards. They cut right through the snow and scrape it quickly off.
Before snowboards, and latterly short skis, we could manage the piste much better and get the early morning skiers to flatten it out by snow ploughing on it. These days we have to repiste it regularly by machine. At Raise we have on occasion decided not to ski it that day in order to preserve the surface for the weekend Imagine that after walking for an hour to get there 
I've been criticised in the past for turning too agressively and told to make less harmful turns for the sake of conserving the run !
None of this probably matters as much in a resort where the snow is moved around and made on an industrial scale. It does however affect the quality of the surface which may have been less icey and harpacked 20 years ago. Also as we know, moguls have all but dissapeared these days and are not usually allowed to build up, certainly not on any of the main runs, presumebly to satisfy the snowboarders and carving punters.
The other big factor of course is the increase in uplift capacity. Bigger and faster tows have led to more congested runs and I think a deteriation of snow quality because of increased traffic.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Even now probably under 5% of people on shaped skis actually carve (on a good day) so the change in skis is fairly irrelevant. Carving causes almost no damage to the slope at all and probably helps in breaking up any ice. People that carve should get free lift passes 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 20-07-08 23:15; edited 1 time in total
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narc,  welcome to sH's
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You know it makes sense.
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As has been said in this thread CARVERS! don't do any damage to the slope if using their skis to actually carve. Remember all you CARVERS! out there you are only supposed to leave two lines on the snow not loads of lumps and bumps of snow.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Surely, shorter skis carrying the same (or more!) weight at higher speeds are going to cause more damage by cutting into the piste.
Longer thinner skis, at slower speeds will presumably distribute their load over a longer length producing less penetration of the snow surface ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Most peeps still skid even on shaped skis. I can see how a carved turn cuts deeper into the snow which on a thin base with grass (or worse) under will break up the snow into blocks.
This is why I ski on one edge. whitewizard, why leave two lines when one will do ? Pick up your inside ski to save the pistes 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| whitewizard wrote: |
| As has been said in this thread CARVERS! don't do any damage to the slope if using their skis to actually carve. Remember all you CARVERS! out there you are only supposed to leave two lines on the snow not loads of lumps and bumps of snow. |
Do you think world cup racers carve as well as if not better than 99% of skiers on the mountain? You want to see the damage and deep ruts they make in the snow when a hundred of them race down the same course taking pretty much the same line.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Stop the Brutal Grooming
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| whitewizard wrote: |
| As has been said in this thread CARVERS! don't do any damage to the slope if using their skis to actually carve. Remember all you CARVERS! out there you are only supposed to leave two lines on the snow not loads of lumps and bumps of snow. |
Do you think world cup racers carve as well as if not better than 99% of skiers on the mountain? You want to see the damage and deep ruts they make in the snow when a hundred of them race down the same course taking pretty much the same line. |
Hardly a fair comparison to make since I'm sure it would take only a few snowploughing ski schools taking exactly the same line to cause similar damage.
Cut up = snow being moved. Skidding moves much more snow than 2 razor edge tracks through the snow, just watch a snowboarder skid heelside all the way down a section and the snow that gets pulled/mounded.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
snowboards pushes all the snow away from the centre of the piste
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Makes me laugh, that one. Watch the skiers next time you're sitting on a chairlift - you'll see huge numbers of them slithering sideways after each turn and taking piles of snow along with them.
If you were any good you would either a) be able to ski the resulting hard surface or b) nip down the side where the snow is.
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I say whatever is cutting it up to keep doing it. It makes piste sking more interesting.
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carving rather than side slipping will "preserve" the piste more but as r Renry says it does make it more interesting. Personally I just rip downm the piste edges wher the snow is a little deeper.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I just rip downm the piste edges wher the snow is a little deeper.
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Its probably deeper because other people aren't carving there
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| Peter S wrote: |
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I just rip downm the piste edges wher the snow is a little deeper.
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Its probably deeper because other people aren't carving there |
Its probably deeper because snow ploughers aren’t ploughing all the snow away there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| narc wrote: |
| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| whitewizard wrote: |
| As has been said in this thread CARVERS! don't do any damage to the slope if using their skis to actually carve. Remember all you CARVERS! out there you are only supposed to leave two lines on the snow not loads of lumps and bumps of snow. |
Do you think world cup racers carve as well as if not better than 99% of skiers on the mountain? You want to see the damage and deep ruts they make in the snow when a hundred of them race down the same course taking pretty much the same line. |
Hardly a fair comparison to make |
I'm not comparing, I'm just merely pointing out that people who do carve can cause damage as well. I also think there's a difference between removing snow cover and cutting up pistes. You can have a great snow depth but it can be rutted up and nasty to ski if the snow is soft and people have been skiing through it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the pistes are there to be smashed up by those who get up first.. if you want coudroy get up at 7.30 am .. same rules as powder
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I really can't see a carver moving as much snow as a skidder. Surely skidders dissipate more of their energy into the snow whereas carvers lose more to air resistance by simply going further and faster.
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You know it makes sense.
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Surely this is all to do with how much traffic a slope has seen. Whatever you are skiing on, the more traffic, the more cut up and mogulled. The rest is just degrees of the same thing. Cutting up the slope is in the nature of skiing.
Skiing is more popular now and carving skis allow people to ski faster without the same discipline.
Do modern cars do more damage to the road ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Nickski wrote: |
| Do modern cars do more damage to the road ? |
No, but everyone powersliding around corners (ie skidding) will cause much more damage to the road than simply driving round them.
Since only a tiny minority actually carve, the change in skis has had zero effect on how quickly the slope gets cut up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Do modern cars do more damage to the road ? Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:28 pm
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Presumably yes because they are heavier, faster and have more effective braking, therefore dissipating more force into the road surface.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Peter S wrote: |
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Do modern cars do more damage to the road ? Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:28 pm
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Presumably yes because they are heavier, faster and have more effective braking, therefore dissipating more force into the road surface. |
Traction control, ABS etc cause less force onto the road, leaving this argument very much in the balance.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stanton wrote: |
| Stop the Brutal Grooming |
It is a well-known fact that we are supposed to disagree with you, at all times. You saying something like that which I do agree with is disconcerting.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What's a piste??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Powderhound, it's that thing which gets cut up really quickly on a powder day forcing you to ski the powder instead
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nessy, ah that makes sense. The link between A & B (A being powderfield one and B being powderfield two)? Also the place where people can avoid skiing powder; leaves more for me and you...
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