 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just been sent an email saying that there is to be a BASI L2 qualification for a closed environment. It can be taken in a snowdome and has the same standard of teaching and technical as L2 Alpine, but obviously excludes the Steep and Bumps elements. Anyone heard anything about this, to confirm or deny? 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 17-06-08 19:03; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, how odd. Where did the email come from? Does that mean though that if that is the case, that the mountain L2 (as it is now) will qualify candidates to teach on a mountain and the Snowdome version only qualifies you to teach at a higher standard than the current L1 within a Snowdome and not on a mountain?
i.e is it for people who do not wish to teach on a mountain that want to take their teaching to the next level within closed environments?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, It was from an Instructor from Gosling slope that has L1. I haven't heard about it officially.
Your understanding is the same as mine. It's for L1 Instructors that want a higher level BASI qualification and have no need for the Mountain Qualification. Makes sense I suppose.
The standards will be assessed for technique exactly the same, for the elements that can be done within a Snowdome.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spyderman, yes, this is true. There could be people that wish to teach skiing beyond the Central Theme and further their qualification from L1 within a closed environment who haven't got the time or the desire to to teach within a mountain environment and for these people being tested on steeps, off piste and bumps would not really be relevant to what they'd be doing in a Snowdome. I wonder how they will differentiate between the two strands on the badge.
I guess it is only hearsay at the moment. Will be good to meet you next month as you are stopping at the AbFab rooms aren't you for Michelle's BBQ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, have you not seen the bumps that have form at MK recently, and the travelator wall pitch at tamworth should be a grade 4 ice climb let alone be found on a ski slope 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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VolklAttivaS5, i don't actually sell non race, we work with the local shop and they will ave stock end september ish, we could always take a look sooner and see if you can find something in a sale
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CEM, thanks I will be in touch end September ish then.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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VolklAttivaS5, I think BASI will need a different name for the qualification. It's the Bumps, Variables and Steeps Strands that candidates normally fail to achieve the required level on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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VolklAttivaS5, A couple of thoughts. How many more people would learn at a Snowdome if they knew that a higher standard of Instructor wax available? How many would continue to progress at a Snowdome beyond parallel give the chance? I'm sure a lot of people give up on lessons once they've reached a certain level because the slopes don't or can't offer quality advanced lessons. If customers knew that good quality advanced lessons were available by well qualified Instructors, I'm sure more people would take lessons.
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Spyderman, I agree with that, but only if the lessons are priced sensibly. It is possible to do some really good high level training on a short and relatively gentle slope, especially if you have a good instructor. But to really make progress you need to do this on a fairly regular basis, and the current pricing structure for lessons (especially private lessons) seems prohibitive.
BTW, what's "instructor wax"? Is this something I should be applying? 
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar,
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BTW, what's "instructor wax"? Is this something I should be applying? |
B, S & C
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Spyderman wrote: |
rob@rar,
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BTW, what's "instructor wax"? Is this something I should be applying? |
B, S & C |
Blimey! They don't mention that in the BASI manual!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Erherm (gathers thoughts after the B, S & C comment) 
Well yes, Spyderman I can see your line of thought there. Like rob@rar says, it's a good idea provided the cost isn't prohibitive and more people then might subscribe for more advanced lessons given the opportunity.
That is probably why BASI are possibly bringing in (unconfirmed as discussed) this closed environment L2 then, they probably wouldn't bother unless they thought there was a market for advanced lessons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| That is probably why BASI are possibly bringing in (unconfirmed as discussed) this closed environment L2 then, they probably wouldn't bother unless they thought there was a market for advanced lessons. |
Unless BASI sees the market for this as people who would take the Closed Environment L2 course? It would be up to the people who took the course to decide whether it helped them with their skiing & teaching ambitions.
Have to say I'm struggling to see what there is to gain from doing a course like this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've checked this out and sorry to disappoint but it's apparently not true.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| I've checked this out and sorry to disappoint but it's apparently not true. |
That's good. Too much confusion in qualifications as it is.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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if the indoor centres actually understood how to run a ski school it would be a start If they offered lessons in sets of 4 or 5 at the same time each week with the same instructor each time people may actually put their hands in their pockets and pay a reasonable price for them, this one lesson here and one there approach is both bad business sense and unprofessional in terms of teaching when it comes to continuity of learning as the instructor on the lesson you have next week doesn't know wht level you are at and therefore wastes some of the lesson going over things you can already do /or have never seen
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| I've checked this out and sorry to disappoint but it's apparently not true. |
I've just had clarification from the BASI Trainer that would be running such course and YES it does exist.
It will be called BASI UK Senior Instructor.
When Candidates pass this qualification, they can complete the full Level 2 Alpine, by taking an upgrade course in an Alpine environment in the future.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 18-06-08 9:26; edited 1 time in total
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This would appear to be in direct competition to the Snowsports Eng/Scot/Wales qualifications just announced: http://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/uk_snowsports-245.html
| Quote: |
| How many more people would learn at a Snowdome if they knew that a higher standard of Instructor was available? |
There are ski clubs based at most articificial slopes (not just snowdomes) who offer higher level coaching on a continuing basis - many are race-oriented which may put some people off, but not all. There are also independent coaches who run regular training sessions at their local slope (e.g. Steve McLaughlin at Tamworth).
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RobW, so i see WM is in favour with MSC at present
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, funnily enough now you mention the name of the qualification itself, I did hear something like a UK Senior Instructor or something mentioned quickly in passing last week when I was at Tamworth with gilleski (I think, although I might be wrong ), I didn't twig earlier on when you mentioned it that it could be the same thing.
It could be a good qualification for people to have who have trouble working at altitude but could still be good teachers on the ground in the artificial environment.
It will be interesting to see how many subscribers they get for such a course, handy that you can "upgrade" to Level 2 Alpine if you want later on if you then choose to work in the mountain environment.
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Yet another instructor title to confuse the situation. No a good idea from BASI in my opinion 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Rob, I agree fully, BASI keep it simple please...
sounds like the only reason for this BASI L1.5 is to take business away from the HNGB's ... and to keep BASI trainers based in the UK earning in the summer...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, rob@rar, agree, sounds like a crazy idea.
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I think it's a good idea. It lets Istructors working in UK Snowdomes upgrade their qualification and take a reduced course overseas. Hopefully a less expensive way to acheive L2. Lets you do the elements that are usable in a snowdome and lets you upgrade later if you want to. What's wrong with that?
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You know it makes sense.
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Spyderman, I think it adds too much confusion to an already confused area, with BASI's and Home Nations' qualifications making it difficult for potential instructors and, perhaps their clients, to understand what is what. I'm all in favour of making it cheaper to get BASI qualified, so doing part of an L2 qualification indoors then completing it in a resort might be one way of doing that (as they have done with the new coaching qualifications). But yet another qualification with an ambiguous title is not a good idea, IMO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, I don't see it as being very much different than doing Ski Teacher ISIA in several modules as it's done now. Anything that raises standards in UK ski centres and hopefully reduces costs, can only be a good thing IMO.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, I agree with that, but I think the problem is that it adds a new qualification title to the mix ("UK Senior Instructor") for those people who don't take the second mountain conversion part. Just seems unnecessary to have another qualification when the current offerings seem so comprehensive.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, Having two seperate modules, one indoors and the other on the mountain could possibly make sense as an option for completing your L2 but having an interim "senior" title doesnt IMO. Would you advocate getting "Senior" L2 status by passing a couple of ISIA modules. I'm with Rob on this as it is adding confusion to an already confusing picture.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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From BASI's perspective I also think it's a good, or even necessary, idea - but the name is silly/confusing. The UK instructor base is largely confined to artificial slopes, so have a qualification that is relevant to those slopes. Without it there's a huge hole in their offering - if you don't plan on instructing in the mountains then the full L2 is taking you places that aren't relevant, and the only relevant UK qualification is ASSI (or UK Snowsports' new L2) - so without it such guys would naturally gravitate only to the HNGB system.
Yes it's clearly a shot in the BASI/HNGB war. With this and the new BASI coaching system BASI now have a full range qualification structure. The new HNGB structure (with coaching and instructing pathways) gives them a full range as well - so it's now all out war on both sides. As they couldn't agree on a unified system, this seems the only consistent outcome. It will be interesting to see who gets the upper hand. BASI seems to have it at the moment.
I don't see anything confusing in the qualification, only in the title.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, I'm sure there are many L1's who have the ability to pass L2 Alpine, but will never teach in a Resort and/or cannot afford/justify the expense of taking the full L2. It seems perfect to go for the 'Closed L2' qualification for them. To be able to teach at a higher skill level in the UK, with the option of upgrading later should the wish/need arise. The UK Senior Instructor award will mean nothing outside of a UK centre anyway, so it won't affect the snow qualifications. I would hope that more instructors would also go for the L2 upgrade, as the Upgrade course would obviously be shorter and less expensive than the full 10 day Alpine one, in lieu of the part of the course that had already been passed in the UK. Even if the combined course fees are greater, savings will be made in accomodation and lift pass costs, assuming the course is taken at their home slope.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| I've checked this out and sorry to disappoint but it's apparently not true. |
Just out of interest, who said it didn't exist?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spyderman, it will be interesting to see how much the closed L2 course will cost plus the upgrade course fee in total compared to the current L2 alpine course fee of £510.
You are right about saving on the accomodation fees though for abroad. For example, say 2 weeks accomodation for the alpine L2 in say Val D'Isere costs £500 per week (if not more) so a total of £1000 and assuming the closed alpine L2 course is for 1 week instead of 2 weeks then it shouldn't cost £500 for accomodation for a week near a Snowdome (assuming there isn't one at a commutable distance). So there should be money to be saved there anyway, plus the extra weeks lift pass of course that you would have had to pay whilst in resort.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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david@mediacopy, Interested also on the pass rate. It can be viewed also from the angle that Candidates that have already gone through the Closed L2 should already be at the standard, rather than just a L1 at the time of entry for the full L2 course.
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FAQ
is a UK HN CI/L1 similar to a BASI L1 or is a an BASI L1 more like an ASSI/L2 
