 Poster: A snowHead
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Nothing like planning ahead ....
Myself and friends are planning next years trip to Les Arcs in March 2009. One of these is an owner in Arc 1950, so has to nominate the weeks he wants his apartment fairly far ahead.
We fancy taking the train to BSM next time, mostly to avoid the awful delays along the valley road on Saturdays.
Can anyone let me know when the time tables and prices will be released for the Eurostar and SNCF elements? Admin is the authority in this area, isn't he?
I'm guessing we will be loking at either London - Paris on Eurostar, then Paris - BSM by SNCF (TGV?). What about London-Lille then Lille - BSM as an alternative?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jmdohanlon, or eurostar direct from St P to Bourg on the Friday night?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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holidayloverxx, Ta chuck. Didn't know about that one - a definite possibility.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Except I think there are no couchettes on that - you sit up all night (?)
Can't remember when time tables become available.
The normal Eurostar tickets and French train tickets (with couchettes) become available at different times - the Eurostar 120 days before your return trip and the French 90 days before the journey out and 90 days before the return. There are a few very cheap tickets available for both (which they will quote you for price) so book when they become available, But there is a risk that by the time you book your return ticket people going for less than a week have booked up all the cheap tickets. It happened to me last year, though admittedly it was 3rd week in February. Also watch out for French school holidays - they tend to make tickets on French trains available earlier, on those weeks, and if you don't know you (as I) may again lose out on the cheap tickets.
If you get the cheap tickets it is reasonably good value (£59 Eurostar and £67 for French rail with couchettes this year), but full price is twice as much.
I do like the train, though - it gives you 2 extra days of skiing for the same number of nights.
Getting between the Gare du Nord and Gare Austerlitz by metro is quite simple (line 5, direct) if you are prepared to lug all your bags and skis through the tunnels - but I now tend to take a taxi - for which there is usually a long queue. You could take a big taxi if there are a few of you (for which there is no queue) but that is expensive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jmdohanlon, avoid the first week of March, which will still be busy with French holidays. I've not done the sitting up journey. Sounds grim, as bad as a coach but three times the price. I did the sleeper (self booked, not as part of a TO group) and had a good trip. Didn't sleep all that much, but lying down in the dark on a clean sheet beats sitting up. But you need to travel light. We were in resort (La Plagne) for breakfast.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowball, correct. but from what I hear about couchettes I wouldn't bother with that. (I have done the friday night eurostar)
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jmdohanlon,
Am also an 1950 owner: although the forms came out this week, he doesn't have to nominate weeks until 15th Sept.
Having said that if you want direct E-urostar, you have to generally book on the day they come out, or preferably, register on their website, and get info the week before - afair from last year, that was mid June ish. The TOs will snaffle most places, mand there are very few left ofr independent travellers.
Other friends who have done the couchettes from Gare d'Austerlitz (not Gare d'Lyon) seem to think they were OK.
DON'T do overnight on TGV without couchettes. tried that on a boys weekend - never again.
We usually go down on the "Saturday-and-change-in-Paris" route - since we go for two weeks, and with lots of children in various families, the extra skiing days are less important than for a 1 week trip. Arrive about 6pm in BSM. For a minibus carrying eight of us including gear up the hill it was €80.
Have done the direct from Ashford on the Saturday too - more pleasant than changing in Paris probably, but is it worth the extra dosh? - comes down to personal preference frankly.
Have also gone over to Paris on the Friday night, had a night out, a good meal and cheap hotel, then caught an early TGV to arrive in 1950 for mid afternoon.
As above posts, the train timetables and availability for E-star and TGV come out at different stages: however, we have found using a rail booking specialist makes it very easy - we used to use Canterbury, as recommended by Rob@rar, but for some reason their customer attitude last year fell signficantly, and we switched to railbookers.com - give them a call and discuss your needs, they will take your booking, but not your money and book what you need on the first day they become available. Very useful service, and not a lot of mark up as far as we could see.
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JimW, thanks for the railbookers recommendation - I heard similar things about Rail Canterbury last season. Can you remember roughly how much you paid for your various train journeys to BSM last season. I'm trying to work out what my options for next season's travel will be.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| snowball, correct. but from what I hear about couchettes I wouldn't bother with that. (I have done the friday night Eurostar) |
What have you heard about couchettes? I normally get a very good nights sleep. We are not talking about the English ski train used by TOs which has a disco carriage and lots of drunken English. The French trains are quite sedate.
Perhaps you don't mind sitting up all night both ways but I'm too old for that now. I want to be fresh to ski in the morning.
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Thanks all. Seems we will ahave to wait a goodly while yet and then act quick if we choose to take the train. The railbookers.com suggestion sound well worth exploring.
Our thinking is actually to travel down on the Friday, have a nice meal and overnight in BSM on Friday night then nip up the funicular on Saturday morning (although a taxi may be better with the bags etc), dump bags and get skiing. Retutrn travel will probably be on the following Saturday.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar,
Last year, we went first class all legs, and IIRC it was ~£1600 return for 5 adults and 3 children out and 5A and 4C back - so on average under £200 each. That was with a Paris overnight on the way out but not on the way back, and with 1 adult coming back after 1 week, and another child joining the rest of us for the return journey in week 2 - ie a complex set of instructions that using the aggregator made simple!
Chose 1st because it was only about another £10 per head, and the E-urostar serves you a meal for that (cf BA business class meals with 'proper' cutlery!) plus bigger seats, electrical sockets and champagne. And besides, it nice to start the holiday with some luxury - for a tenner!
jmdohanlon, depending on the weeks and oocupation rates, and how much your friend can schmooze Intrawest, they may be able to do a "one night" special in 1950 for the Friday night for you. May not be in your friend's apartment, but I bet you'll find that once you've got as far as BSM you'll be itching to get up the mountain!
(PS - plenty of mini-bus taxis on the ranks outside the Station - if you are going to use the funicular with bags, it is included in your ski-pass if you've bought a pass for that day. Generally coming down of the mountain for the 9:30 train to Paris on your way home you haven't, but by then you are familiar with the navette timetables and stops, so is less of a fag and the €6 (or is it €7?) is a small price to pay. But if you are with many bags, you be at the wrong end of the platforms, and it is a looong way!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jmdohanlon wrote: |
Thanks all. Seems we will ahave to wait a goodly while yet and then act quick if we choose to take the train. The railbookers.com suggestion sound well worth exploring.
Retutrn travel will probably be on the following Saturday. |
I assume you mean saturday evening /night after a day of skiing?
1950 is well placed for the skiing. Do you know Les Arcs well? There is some very good off-piste, much of it far from the pistes, especially if you like steeper slopes - but you need a guide for most of it.
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| Quote: |
| We are not talking about the English ski train used by TOs which has a disco carriage and lots of drunken English. The French trains are quite sedate. |
Yes, we were on a French train, and although the outward compartment was full, our companions (young Italians) wanted to sleep, not get pissed, and it was fine. Little space - it's OK if you're used to sleeping on little boats! On the homeward journey when my husband had been flown home by the insurance company to deal with tornado damage to our house, I had an entire compartment to myself, and it was bliss. We changed trains and stations in Paris; easy enough with a backpack. And a friend was British Ambassador at the time, and went to tea to the Residence (just showing off, you know... the only time backpackers ever went there for tea, I bet). Sitting up in a seat all night is fine, in my book, if you're saving heaps of money (as in taking a family on a coach) but I wouldn't pay a premium to do so.
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You know it makes sense.
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| snowball wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| snowball, correct. but from what I hear about couchettes I wouldn't bother with that. (I have done the friday night Eurostar) |
What have you heard about couchettes? I normally get a very good nights sleep. We are not talking about the English ski train used by TOs which has a disco carriage and lots of drunken English. The French trains are quite sedate.
Perhaps you don't mind sitting up all night both ways but I'm too old for that now. I want to be fresh to ski in the morning. |
EoSBashers had a bad time, no sleep, cramped & uncomfortable (do you call them?) rooms and have said they would never do it again. I woudl prefer not to have to change in Paris and I don't mind sitting up all night, and in fact I slept on the floor and rested my head on the seat. I'm getting too old for that really though......
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| EoSBashers had a bad time, no sleep, cramped & uncomfortable (do you call them?) rooms and have said they would never do it again. |
Except for this one, I drank enough to give me a good few hours kip on the way out and skied hard enough on the last day to give me a good night's kip on the way home  I'll certainly look at using that mode of transport again but losing the transfer across Paris would make it even better.
I also reckon I could lose the couchette and do the direct service in a seat - I can sleep anywhere if tired enough.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
EoSBashers had a bad time, no sleep, cramped & uncomfortable (do you call them?) rooms and have said they would never do it again. I woudl prefer not to have to change in Paris and I don't mind sitting up all night, and in fact I slept on the floor and rested my head on the seat. I'm getting too old for that really though...... |
The normal couchettes are 6 bunk (3 each side), but for a few pounds more you can be in a 4 bunk one.Since you are asleep it doesn't matter much how cramped it is. We had a group of 6 so reverted to the seats set-up for the first couple of hours till we decided to sleep. On the other hand I gather that the proper 2 bunk, first class version - the old sleeping cars with wash basin in each - still exist, but I expect they cost.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FenlandSkier, snowball, I'd look at doing the direct service for next year's EoSB with the sat up seat but I think they stop the direct service from London St Pancras on 13th April I think? Looking at last years time table they stopped it about then I think. Shame really considering the number of people that were going to the Alps in late April this year. Perhaps they might run it longer next year though as Easter is in April next year instead of March as it was this year.
snowball, from reading the other thread about the train I think they didn't like it because it was too hot in the couchettes or something and that was what partly put them off doing it again and the changeover with the luggage in Paris. I don't know exactly though as I wasn't there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar,
The breakdown last year went something like this IIRC..
Ashford to Paris rtn can be done for £60:00 or £99:00 1st class. Paris to Grenoble was about 75:00 but again, I upgraded to 1st for an extra £15:00, so £150 should easily cover it if you are quick and on the ball at the booking stage. I used Canterbury last year and the booking was about 10% and I also went direct. They feed you 1st class on E-star as well which is good as you need an early start, IMV
The one thing I did..which cost me..was to take a fixed date 1st class ticket for about the same as a flexible 2nd class ticket.
I accept £150 as I can get to Ashford Int for nothing... and once you have factored in Airport parking, petrol etc...you aren't that far off it anyway.
I like the relaxed train travel over planes every single day of the week and twice on sundays..!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JT, thanks, that's helpful. I live close to Heathrow and can get there on the bus for a couple of quid. This makes the train more expensive than flying, but it is the car hire from GVA that is the killer cost. A train to Bourg would probably reduce my A-B cost, but would reduce my flexibility to visit other resorts/people. Just wish booking the train was as easy as booking flights and car hire.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar,
Yes..the bug is that you have to co-ordinate the E-star part. Last year, I caught the 0725 train from Ashford to get me to PAris by 10:17..and I needed an hour to get across to G de Lyon. So that means trains out from Paris would need to be 11:15 onwards which got me to the alpes from 15:00 onwards.
Geneva was about that time. Grenoble was later. Coming back, I aimed to get into Paris for the 15:30 train back to Ashford. There was a later one at around 18:00 but not too sure. Ashford Int only had about 2 useable trains for outward and return so London would be much better in that regard. I haven't pursued Lille as a gateway as the prices didn't fall into place. If I were to use a booker then they may know more about that.
I do know what Aime did a direct train to Paris from about 08:00-0900 in the morning
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, JT,
Because I like to make things difficult, our groups can vary in size from 6 ( boys weekends) to 13 (three families + 2 singles).
I can't recall a single time when we have all travelled on the same day, in or out, from the same start point, with the same transfer options in the middle - using Railbookers (or to be fair, Canterbury before them) takes all the hassle away - you couldn't do the same thing on the airline websites (or the rail websites either) - they just can't cope with the necessary customisation / personalisation like a real person, who knows what they are doing.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
snowball, from reading the other thread about the train I think they didn't like it because it was too hot in the couchettes or something and that was what partly put them off doing it again and the changeover with the luggage in Paris. I don't know exactly though as I wasn't there. |
Ah, interesting - I think they may have gone to non-opening windows, like the british rail sleepers did a long time ago (I was told by my my mother who had to move from her bed to a sit-up returning from Scotland).
I was OK this year (and I like it very cool when I sleep - I generally have my window a little open in the Alps at night). However I was in a bottom bunk, which is coolest.
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I got an email today from Eurostar telling me that the ski train goes on sale on 16 July but I could call to pre-register now.
I duly called and tried to pre-register for the half term trains (14+21 Feb) - but they are already sold out. The emails started going out at the start of this week, apparently.
They are considering adding an extra train, but have no idea when / if a decision will be taken, but they did take details.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowball wrote: |
| If you get the cheap tickets it is reasonably good value £59 Eurostar and £67 for French rail with couchettes this year), but full price is twice as much. |
Still cheaper than most half-term flights then!
Definitely considering the train myself, this thread is a goldmine. Thanks all.
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jd, If you really want to go Estar it may be worth your while contacting Rail canterbury or railbookers because they may have allocations for seats on the Euro star which are "unavailable" if you try to book direct. A couple of years ago we couldn't get the tickets we wanted at half term via Estar itself but managed to get them for a small booking fee via a travel agent. Can't remember which one but if you're interested I could check. Tickets weren't cheap but for family of 4 still came in at £400 less than flying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jmdohanlon, if you go to www.sncf.com you can book for any date, there is a sleeper train - La Tarentaise that nruns every night from Gare D'Austerlitz, leaving around 22.20 and arriving in Bourg St Maurice at about 06.30. SNCF have promotional fares called PREMS that are made available 90 days before your date of travel, I've travelled from BSM to Lille for as little as 19Euros and caught the Eurostar to London from Lille. From memory BSM is in SNCF's zone C which did offer a return fare from London to BSM for £99.00. You can book on-line with SNCF and they will deliver tickets to a UK address or you can call RailEurope, SNCF's agent in the UK who will not mention PREMS until prompted but who will check availability and book then for you. I wouldn't worry too much about couchettes, they only get full booked at busy times when it's worth up grading to 1st class.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have emailed Rail Canterbury to ask and will post results here
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I had an email this morning from Eurostar saying that you can pre-register for seats before they go on sale on 16th July by calling 08705 186 186 between now and 16th July.
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You know it makes sense.
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VolklAttivaS5, Me too 
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Dear ,
It seems like only yesterday we were stuffing those salopettes away
in the attic and shoving that snowboard to the back of the cupboard,
but as always the weeks and months just keep flying by.
And before we know it the nights will be creeping in and temperatures
will start falling quicker than a beginner on a black run, so here’s
your early reminder that Eurostar ski train tickets go on sale soon.
If you haven't already done so, pre-register your hotly
anticipated seat for the slopes from today
Then, when tickets for the 2008/2009 ski season go on sale on 16 July,
you’ll be front of the queue to have your bookings confirmed, leaving
you plenty more time to try to remember where you put those goggles.
All you have to do is call 08705 186 186* between now and 16 July and register your travel details. We’ll call you back to discuss the finer
details of your request and, subject to availability, make your reservations.
It’s as simple as that.
And, when booking your ticket you can also take care of your travel insurance and accommodation. We offer fully comprehensive Winter
Sports travel insurance at competitive rates and you can also
click here to see a range of hotels.
A whole heap of stations to choose from
The first service for this year will depart from St Pancras International
and Ashford on 20 December 2008, and will stop at Mo?tiers,
Aime-la-Plagne and Bourg-St-Maurice, giving access to over 40 resorts. Services then run all the way up to 18 April 2009.
You’ve heard of yellow snow, but what if it’s green?
Eurostar journeys are now carbon-neutral at no extra cost to travellers, so you can enjoy your trip to the slopes safe in the knowledge that you’re keeping your CO2 emissions (and your impact on the planet) as low as possible.
In the meantime, we’ll look forward to hearing from you to pre-register for your fill of fondue, fresh air and freestyle skiing.
* Please call us between 9am and 5pm Monday to Friday. We will do our best
to get you your first choice of dates, but as pre-registration is subject to
availability it is best to give us a second choice of travel dates when you
register, just in case. Also, we must point out that if you book over the
phone there will be a £5 booking fee.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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yup that's the one we got too. Looks like anyone who has used them before is getting the message!
Of course... if they've already sold out the half term week to the TOs, as per jd then too little, too late for some travellers.
Think we'll probably stick to the "change-in-Paris" route.
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Poster: A snowHead
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jmdohanlon, First schedules are released on 16 July
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Rail Canterbury can't get any tickets for the half term trains. Eurostar website pretends to have tickets until part way through the sale process.
I will probably end up going via Paris, which is not the end of the world...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Parents rang as as a result of the email shown above - have all booked for Jan
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I spoke to RailBookers this morning and was told no availability for half-term
I then spoke to the owner of Rail Canterbury, excellent chat and managed to get 1 ticket out on 14th Feb and back on 21st Feb on the Day train for £269.00. Then I asked about the overnight train, and there was 1 seat left on the 13th... nothing back though on the overnight 21st. So, as of approx 1500hrs there is 1 seat left on the day train both ways.
Spoke also about any problems with "members".. Apparantly last year they had 3 seperate bookings made by people getting their number through this board. Tickets issued then "clients" refused the credit card charge on their statement, so RC were left with a sizeable debit. So criticism of them may well be down to "our own" spoling it for the rest of us. Apparantly they got the money back by going through both the courts and a local "contact" who "arranged" the money being repaid.... Anyone know of pals with "strange injuries!!!"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Who is "our own" in the context of a first time poster?
I have no doubt that google searchers find this site, register to obtain some info then go off and behave just as dubiously or otherwise as they would have done before. It would be a bit much to perform due dilligence on every new member to ensure saint-like status.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Might be a first time poster with this name, but I have been a member for 2 years, just lost my previous log-in details
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Blinder, Sorry not a jibe - I was just confused. I've never understtod how rejecting credit card charges works - I've usually had the devil's own job when some business has charged me the wrong amount & my cc company says "Not our problem, you have admitted you did a transaction with them". Maybe the individuals (fraudsters) flat out claim the transactions were fraudulent.
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If you have a "dubious" debit, then report it at once to the card company and put the amount in dispute.
They, the card company should then contact the "debitor" and ask for a copy of the sales slip... ok so far! If the card was a signed or "pin transaction" then you have probs, because you have entered the pin (or given over the number), same with the signature, unless it aint your signature.
If the debit is a "mail-order" then you will have given them your SEC number (3 on the back), what the chap was saying at Canterbury was that tickets were ordered, paid for by card, but then the "clients" stated that the tickets did not arrive and filled in an indemnity form to that effect.
Passengers meanwhile demanded new tickets as "they were travelling", so a new set was issued free of charge... The trouble is that the seller, in this case are unaware of the "chargeback" until about 3 weeks later.
He was telling me that it took 18 months, but the 3 guys were done for credit card fraud, had to pay back the money and got 200 hrs "community service". His way of dealing with it though was much more satisfying!!! (but only if you could watch!!)
You can see though his side of the problem when dealing with certain transactions, if he is going to take a big loss at the end of the day.
Apparantly though they have now got a new girl to replace the guy that they did have, so hopefully things will be back to normal at RC. Lets hope so as they were excellent and got me on the train for next year..
Cheers Luke
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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apart from those with a fear of flying why would anyone do this? it's £300 return!
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FAQ
