 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm sort of new to this touring lark, having done about 5 day trips so far around the Cham. valley, top of V. Blanche etc but really like it so far. As I've got a safari week coming up in Feb and am intending to do an Haute Route late in the season, with probably a few extra days practice slotted in between now and then, it's probably time to kit up properly. I do expect though to still ski mostly lift-based off-pisty for a while with the longer tours more of a bonus.
So far I've been on hired skis, always the ubiquitous Atomic Beta Ride 9.22s (virtually impossible to hire anything else) - and I've also used their predecessor as on piste skis for a couple of weeks, but they really don't work for me. 170s sank into anything but hardpack, 190s were fine but too long (particularly in scrub), 180s just felt too floppy and made chopping through the crud a real pain - and took away much of the enjoyment of getting away from it all. I have Rossi Bandit XXs (184s) which I love for downhill, and have seen posters over at SCGB use them for touring. Trying to forestall the usual questions posted in reply on some other kit threads, here's some information about me: I'm 1cm under 6' and not exactly a lightweight at about 95kg, skiing level just about SCGB purple off-piste (but still improving farily rapidly), fairly strong and agressive style, and all my instructors have been skidders rather than carvers. I have no pretentions of being a hot-shot at anything particular (too old at 45 and started too late for that), but my goal is all-round, all-mountain competence. For the last few years I've been managing to get 2-3 weeks skiiing in, and this will be the first year I've managed to get 4 weeks.
I've already been accumulating the regular off-piste safety gear. It looks like Denalis are the recommended boots (BTW I have very wide feet - my Salomon ProCarve 9.0s needed pushing out a couple of cm when I got them). As for skis, one possibility would be to get some Fritshi Freeride bindings or something similar to put on the Rossis. But aren't the XXs a bit heavy for touring? If so, I was wondering about trying to find something with the Bandit solidity but lighter weight - either to buy, or (miracles occasionally do happen) hire for the occasional longer tour and stick with the Rossis for day trips. I just don't want to be on 9.22/R9s again!
Any suggestions/comments all gratefully received (...this looks a good forum to be on).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi GrahamN,
Touring is the source but purchasing kit is always an issue, because of the multitude of conditions you are likely to encounter. I am of similar stature to you and do pretty much only off-piste and ski mountaineering.
I had a pair of XXs then B2s with FRs on board and used each once before ditching them. Too soft, not enough rebound, too narrow etc etc. If you are going to be mainly lift-based initially then you should find the ski you are comfortable with off-piste and use that for touring. I am on a 198cm Volkl G4 which I use for almost everything, however I am willing to carry the extra weight. If your fitness is not at peak then this would be a handful for Haute Route style touring. B3s may suit as they are lighter than some and at somewhere in the 186 mark may be a good bet. If the R9/9.22 was too soft then the next level R11:EX or R11.22 (I get confused with the exact designators, there are so many these days!) will be far better - telemark pyrenees can mount touring bindings on them using an acrylic plate beneath - but quite heavy. Kneissl Tankers are worth a look too. My girlfriend is on Scott Aztecs and loves them for touring, but at 5'6 and 55kg that is not a fair comparison!
Buying a dedicated touring ski will not be of benefit if your aim is to tour to enjoy the descents as they handle appallingly. I still use my Alpine boots for touring as I cannot come to terms with having poor flex characteristics, and am happy to walk in them for short stints and they are fine for the climbs. If you are a heavy, aggressive skier you must try a set of hire boots first to check that you can actually ski in them.
When you talk about the usual safety kit, I am sure that you have a transceiver, shovel (metal?) and 2.4m probe, have you also considered a lightweight harness, screwgate karabiner, short rope (30m, 8.5mm dia), haarscheisen and first aid kit? All useful stuff if you intend going near a glacier or skiing with more less experienced skiers.
Let me know when you are intending touring in the Cham valley and I could point you in the direction of some superb, lesser known, routes.
Happy shopping! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for that Powderhound (that was actually also the name of a shortlived video brochure company my brother attempted to get going a few years ago). Interesting that you found the XX too soft!
I'll have a look at the skis you recommend, but it looks like I may try sticking with the XXs to start with. I've spent about 3 days in touring boots (not sure the model - they were whatever the hire-shop had hundreds of), and mostly got on OK with them (although those horrible 9.22s made it difficult to be sure), provided I remembered to switch them out of walk mode! They did though make the walk out of Crochues-Berard much more comfortable - and were very noticeably lighter than my downhills.
Yep, got the shovel,probe,harness,krabs & f.a.kit. I'll get the haarsheisen when I get the bindings and skins - rope slings and prussiks next. Don't yet have my own transceiver as I'm not really experienced enough yet to go out without a guide (or a SCGB hol - Grimentz in early Feb) and they always seem to provide them as part of the deal - but I guess that'll come before long.
Trips so far have been I guess the usual beginners' ones: Crochues-Berard a couple of times, Aiguille du Midi to Hellbronner, Col d'Argentiere, and one day up to Grand St Bernard (which was a bit of a waste as the weather was crap, and the snow worse - that day we were intending to do something above a reservoir above Vallorcine but the access road was closed). Been drooling over many of the routes in the Delaperriere/Gentilini book for quite a while, and intend to do Col du Passon next time I'm out there (tried to interest the last guide we had in this, but he did seem to be one of the few I've met that preferred skiing down things to hiking up 'em).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, may be teaching you to suck eggs - but boots that fit are a good start - don't go with Denalis unless the do fit. Mrs Ski has some from a few years back (hired them for a week, liked them, bought them) - which we upgraded by adding a larger rear spoiler, and the tongue from the Denali XT - she loves them.
As for skis (I'm not a very good skier btw), unless you have packets on money, cheap/secondhand skis (reasonably fat - XXs, 1080s etc), should do fine. They'll get chewed up on the rocks anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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For me I would go for XX's and Intuitive 74's. This year Stockli have a PIT light ski which might be suitable
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Well, courtesy of a week in La Tania the option of putting FRs on my XXs seems to have gone - blew out 3 edges on submerged rocks   .
I was wondering, JT, whether anyone would suggest the Intuitives, as I've seen a fair few Cham guides using Dynastars. However, these are now replaced by the Legend series, and I hired a pair of 8000s for a couple of days - which are a bit wider and alleged to be a bit stiffer than the 74s. Much as I loved the XXs, I really loved the 8000s. It took me a couple of runs to get used to the wider tips, but they seem just as good and solid in the cut-up crud, but lighter and livelier, and the sharper lipped edges really dragged me into much more carving than I would with the XXs. The bottom line was that I was skiing better on these than I'd ever done before (although that's not too difficult  ). The only thing I found a problem with, very surprising given the comments in their reviews, was that their performance in soft stuff, where they sank, dived and stopped with disturbing regularity. It could be I was skiing them too short (at 178cm), or possibly my efforts over the last few years to overcome my perennial problem of sitting back have been just too successful.
How did Powderhound get on with the Tankers. I've never heard of these before - any good? (Ah - just checked - look like a dedicated powder ski rather than an all-rounder). The current Volkl offering seems to be the 724s (EXP or Pro), but I've had comments that they'd be too stiff and for touring.
So, unless I see anything seriously to the contrary, it looks like I may end up with 8000s at 184 with FRs. Unfortunately, the La Tania shops were all tied into ski+binding deals and no-one seemed to have heard of randonee. It also looks like there's no UK distribution, or even in Switzerland (I really want them for the next trip, weeks in Grimentz and Klosters in early Feb), so mail order www.telemark-pyrenees.com look like the best bet.
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GrahamN, why not talk to the guys at Face West, they're knowledgable and approachable and they also give acommission to snowheads, we bought back country gear from them and have been very happy with their service. I'm not suprised you found the Dynastars so good, in our experience the best skis available, although I've read a few reports that said the Legend is no improvement on the Intutivs.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 5-01-05 19:57; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN,
After a disappointing start to the season, in terms of snow, it has nonetheless been possible to get some off-piste done. Due to the lack of base it has been generally better to boot up than skin up, particularly on the wind swept ridges, and try and find the places where the snow is blown into to ensure decent depth. It led to some excellent early season skiing in fact.
The lack of snow meant that I decided to hang onto my cash and am still on my G4s. I have now almost completely re-built them due to rocks, but however hard I try the edges stay intact - and the base is down to the metal in several places - these are bullet proof skis!
The Tanker is not a ski I would recommend for skiing anything other than down! Unless, like me you are a glutton for punishment, and willing to sweat a little for the ups. The 724 gets good reviews but is a compromise from the old G1 - 4 range and aimed more at piste skiing, therefore heavy. I am a big fan of the Dynastar skis and they too tend to be bulletproof. Intuitiv Big....
See you in Klosters - I'm the loony with the 198 Black G4s!! 
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Thanks for the advice guys. In the end I saw a pair of Legend 8000s (184cm) going on eBay, so got them for about 1/2 list and had Fritschi Freerides mounted on them. Got them yesterday and they are in excellent condition: used <10days, a few nicks on the top surface of the shovel but nothing beyond the cosmetic. I'm getting some G3 skins from telemark-pyrenees, so now all I need is to get on the slopes (in about 10 days time  ), when I'll start checking out boots too.
If anyone wants some Intuitive 74s dynastar_skis_offers" target="_blank" class="postlink">the place I got the Legends are selling new ones at less than 1/2 list (Eur249).
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