AT gear

A snowHead

Thinking about getting some AT gear for next season but not really sure where to start. I won't be getting (probably ever) into serious touring, so the focus will be on downhill with some lightweight skinning and boot-packing to access good snow. From what I've seen on the net Marker Dukes or Fritchi Freeride Plus might be suitable bindings - anything else I should look at? I'm open to suggestions on skis, but probably wouldn't want to go too fat, maybe something in the 80-85mm underfoot range (I tried a pair of Movement Sparks this season which I really liked). Alternatively I have a pair of Volkl Karmas (89mm, in 177cm) that I could have redrilled for AT bindings. I know nothing about skins - what should I be looking for? I'm hoping that I can get away with my alpine boots for a season or two, before buying AT boots - is this a reasonable compromise or will I regret not getting dedicated boots? Any advice that can be offered will be much appreciated Smile

A snowHead

rob@rar,
It all seems to start at weight... and how far you want to go.

Dukes are heavy..certatinly heavier that Freerides or Naxos, IMV.

I'd put a set of FR+ on your Karmas and see how you like them with your alpine boots. Again, the Endophine is much lighter than
an alpine boot so this might all add up. but I wouldn't think 45mins on Karmas, FR+ and alpine boots would hurt you if the alpine boots had a degree of comfort.

Ask BC about some skins as he buys them bulk, I believe. You might need the Binding crampon ( harscheisen ) as well

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There's a lighter & lower DIN version of the Duke due out for next season - think it's called the Griffon.

CORRECTION 1.7.08. The lighter version of the Duke for 08/09 is the Baron with a 4-12 DIN range.
The Griffon will be the lighter 4-12 version of the Jester.

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Now I'm an expert on this skinning lark - I had to do it for 20 mins on last Friday's heli-trip so I think that makes me pretty qualified, I would say that the additional weight compromise of the Dukes is not really a major concern if you consider the benefits of having a really solid binding for the downhill part. I can understand if you are competing in the Patrouille des Glaciers then it would be an issue (Zermatt to Verbier in seven hours ???, those boys are mad) but a quick 45 minute yomp to get some fresh snow isn't going to be a problem. Similarly the boot question, I have relatively stiff alpine boots but don't find it too much of a chore to do some boot packing even though I am not the slimmest or fittest of gentlemen. Again, I think anything over a couple of hours I'd be looking at AT boots but if that isn't what you intend to do then the performance benefits of pure Alpine boots win out for me.

I'm intending to do a bit more sidecountry action next weekend so I may be modifying my view, in which case I'll post again.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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rob@rar, BGA has it about right. If you're not going to be skinning huge amounts you can make very serious compromises on weight. The components that will make the biggest difference are in descending order a) boots b) bindings c) skis. This year I used my Head boots for everything. They skied way better than my Denalis, but were very noticeably heavy, and walkouts were much less comfortable or secure - but still plenty doable. The most important thing is that your boots hold your heel well and don't allow any up-down slop, otherwise you'll get nasty blisters in no time flat. The lack of an uphill walk mode is not really a problem in the skinning, just be a bit cute with buckle tension, but becomes more noticeable in walk-outs. I'd suggest sticking with what you've got until you decide you want to do something a bit more adventurous - but using them for more than an hour or so will result in serious weight loss from the lump they're carrying.

For bindings I have the FR+ and they're fine, ski well, can crank them over no problem, and anyone used to skiing with race/carving plates should not notice the extra height. I did though break a heelpiece in a crash this year (a somersault resulting in the tails coming hard down into the ground), and probably wouldn't want to do any cliff jumps in them. You absolutely do want to be able to fit harscheisen though, I understand the Duke didn't have that facility to strt with but do so now - if you go down that route do check (you may only use them once or twice a year, but when you need them you need them).

For skis, just go with whatever you want to ski (although I'd suggest race dept slalom are not a brilliant idea Wink

) - the Karmas should do fine (unless you need an excuse for more skis). Buying new skis I do look for lightweight, but how they ski is more important.

Skins, I have Black Diamond Glidelite Nylon/Mohair mix. A bit bulky, but good and grippy so hold well on a traverse (v important), but don't glide forward quite so easily, and the STS tail fixing system is pretty secure. I think the nylon only ones are much less bulky (and cheaper) but I don't know anything about how they grip. I previously had a pair of G3 skis, which were much easier in the glide, but less secure on the traverse. Overall I'm happier with the BDs.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

It all depends how much uphill you will be doing and whether you want to buy some new boots. I have Dukes on a couple of pairs of skis and dynafits on another. If was walking for more than an hour, the dukes get heavy. However, they beat Fritschis on skiing performance by a mile.

you can use any boots you like with the Dukes, Fritschis and Naxos. You need compatible boots for dynafits.

One you are walking for more than an hour, dynafits are in a league of their own - they walk better and ski better than the competition. the only thing you lose is step-in convenience, but they aren't bad at all once you get used to them. in fact, with a 12DIN dynafit binding and the new beefy dynafit compatible boots which are coming out now, I am thinking that my transition to dynafits could be complete in a couple of seasons

skins - latest top tip - get ones designed for racing. saves weight

After all it is free

Arno,

Thinking of going dynafit (from Fritschi), how do dynafits compare with dukes in ski mode?

rob@rar, If you aren't going to be doing serious touring - could I interest you in a pair of Alpine Trekkers ? Then you can continue with existing boots and bindings...

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ski, thanks, but I think I've got a good price for a pair of Dukes. I doubt I'll be doing much skinning, at least for a few seasons, so the priority will be alpine performance rather than weight saving and I think the Dukes seem to suit what I'm looking for. All I need now is a pair of Movement Thunder skis to mount them on...

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

DB, i find the interface with the ski really solid - ie no slop whatsoever. there is less stack height on the dyanfits than any of the other AT bindings which creates a different feel - probably one i like

ultimately, it is quite hard to compare though because when i swap from one of my duke setups to a dynafit setup, lots of other things change - skis, boots etc. one thing is for sure though - fritschi, naxo, silvretta would need to come out with something really revolutionary to make me change from dynafits and dukes

snow reports

rob@rar, I hired my AT gear from these guys in the forum in courch 1850 http://www.lecampdebase.com/ this winter and i cannot recommend them highly enough. When they heard I was on a course they brought out a new pair of skis and cut a brand new set of skins... I returned them pretty trashed with several deep core shots and he just shrugged and said that is what off piste is all about.

The best bit was i had snapped off the bottom of a leki pole and enquired if they had a spare, after much checking of drawers and bins two brand new pole ends and baskets were attached to my poles and they wouldnt take any money as "it is all part of the service".

They might have some deals now in the off season or at a min it would be worth checking them out as they have loads of cools stuff.

skimottaret, sounds like they induged in a successful bit of marketing there (loss-leading to get into new instructor's good books) Wink

. And he's right about skiing off-piste - you certainly get way less prescious about the state of your bases. Deep is no problem for a bit of PTex/Metalgrip - wide is a bit more iffy. Edge dings are the major PITA though (and how I've killed my last two pairs of skis)

You know it makes sense.

GrahamN, perhaps but i didn't say an "instructors" course, just a course... They are just really cool guys who are incredibly enthusiastic and knowledgeable. If you are into mammut gear they have absolutely everything....

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

rob@rar,

Have you tried the Thunders..?

Lightweight and 89mm sound quite a good ticket...!!

I believe you'll have to step out of Dukes to change to the free-heel, but as that is probably the same time you'll put on skins...not a huge problem IMV. If they have another model next season which is lighter ( only heard about it so can't recall the name) and will take a crampon, then they'll snare more of this 'occasional' market, IMV

A snowHead

JT, yes, spent a couple of hours on them earlier this season when I borrowed them for the afternoon from a friend. Really liked them. If I can get hold of a pair at a sensible price I'll mount the Dukes on them and sell my Karmas, otherwise I'll stick with the Karmas for the time being. I think you can now get crampons for the current Dukes - I vaguely recall SZK posting something along those lines.

skimottaret, thanks for the link, I'll email them.

A snowHead

rob@rar,

I asked because I used the Sparks and really liked them all over the hill..... but when I asked about the Thunders was told they were completely different...??? and as the shop wasn't in the same village as I was staying, that just swayed me...- regret that..!!
But since I will be going back next year, then I'll try them.

I have since adjusted the way I will try and ski them, anyway, so these could be the missing link I am looking for...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Skied with a bloke, who was heavily into Dynaft, this season. He seemed to clip in and out not problem - and the bindings looked well engineered to me. Can't remember what skis he was on, but the weight of his kis (about 175 I would guess) and bindings was much lighter than my 178 Missions with their Rossignol bindings.

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rob@rar, JT, I tried the Thunders at the end of the day at the 2006 PSB. Had a ball on them, but they felt pretty stiff, and needed skiing hard. Not obviously a particularly light ski either (the other skis I tried at the time were Missions and BD Havocs, both noticeably quite a bit lighter). At slower speeds they didn't really do a lot. That tallies with the reviews that came out about the same time - great for balls-out freeriding, but not so accomodating of more cruisy stuff. My main concern would be what they'd be like working through tighter passages and the kind of tricky chop you often get when touring - but of course on the bullet-hard conditions at the time that was not a testable option.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

GrahamN,

Now that has confused me again... Laughing

but no matter, I will give them ago, now that I belatedly realise that you need to adjust what you are trying to do. Now, the Sparks are light, IMV but I can't recall the Thunders by comparison, just that Facewest have deemed them ( the Thunder) a touring ski option. I'll go with your Freeride definition tho'

But of course, there are also the Goliaths and Gladiators to try as well and I don't want or need anything for more than a hours or so at the moment.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

kitenski, unfortunately they don't have the Thunders in 177cm - they sold the last pair shortly before I placed my order Sad

After all it is free

I've a pair of new unmounted Thunder 185 which I might be prepared to part with for the right cash. I think the model year is about 3 seasons ago (blue topsheet). I'd always been planning on using them as a tele or Euro non fresh conditions ski but now I've been tempted by Arno's dps but would need to reduce quiver to accomodate.

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fatbob, I think 185 is probably just a bit too much ski for me (173cm and 74kg).

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

A lot of High Society customers are touring on their 179cm FR model as they're only 3320g per pair in the flat which is very light for a high performance all mountain ski.

snow reports

i've got a pair of gladiators with FR+ bindings and love them, not done any long tours, just enjoy day tours and pottering off to interesting spots away from the crowds

incidentally, check these guys out for movements and all things touring / tele, they give a great service as they're complete touring and gear freaks - bought my setup from them couple of years back

http://mountainspirit.co.uk

You know it makes sense.

snowbunny, We were in Zermatt for the start of Patrouille des Glaciers on both nights. The pictures we saw of frostbite from the Wednesday were terrible.
On Friday we watched the competitors come out of their briefing and start buying up all the thermals in the town.

Apologies for the slight thread diversion

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

rich, I read some Valais newspaper reports with seasoned P des G competitors quoted as saying they had never experienced such cold weather. I also read that the start times of some competitors was seriously delayed by the weather. More thread diversion Little Angel

A snowHead

Best Side Country Set Up 2008/9: K2 Coobmer. Marker Barron. Scarpa Skookan. Couteax, BD Skins. Little Angel

A snowHead

XXXX Randonners.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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... good man .. rob@rar, ... Very Happy

.... I knew you would succumb in the end .... Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

SMALLZOOKEEPER,

What news on the Barrons...?? can't find anything on Marker USA

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Newbey question - I did a web search for "Black Diamond Glidelite" and see they come with Glue Puzzled

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JT, The Baron's are due in the UK late Sept & probably only in black/gunmetal. Have only seen a pic of them & I believe that the Baron that Mastco (UK Marker Distributor) had at the Slide trade show a few months ago went back to Marker after the show. Don't think there's been any/many pre-season sales as haven't seen any reviews, not even on TGR. Al's Ski Barn in the US were advertising them a while back but their website wouldn't accept an order.

The Duke is unchanged for 08/09 & AFAIK these are the Baron's differences versus the Duke's:
- exact same design as the Duke inc the same mounting hole pattern & same two 'length' versions.
- 4-12 Din instead of the 6-16 on the Duke.
- %age of metal now plastic to reduce weight by 150g (from approx 2600g to 2450g) - hardly seems worth it?
- although lighter they're supposedly as laterally stiff as the Duke's so should ski just as well.
- Baron should be about £35 cheaper than the Duke.

After all it is free

spyderjon,

Sounds ok...just all seems to be very quiet ... Puzzled

Thanks

JT, allegedly available here:

http://shop.sport65.de/products/en/Sportsshop/Skis/Bindings-Skins/Freeride-Tour-Telemark/Marker-Baron.html

suspect it might be a pre-order though

alternatively, you might try signing up on TGR and seeing if ptex1 is still doing his volkl/marker pre-order. that worked out very economical for my dukes last year, even taking into account shipping

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That's an interesting statement on that website: "perfect for all......riders with less than 85 kg body weight"

Wonder if that's Marker's official line re user weight as that's saying that anyone over 85kg should be on the Duke. Makes me concerend re the strength of the Baron.

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