 Poster: A snowHead
|
I've noticed from pics from our recent pic that i probably extend my outside leg too much when putting a turn in.
This explains a kind of juddering sensation i sometimes get when carving high speed or steep turns - as the outside ski ultimately loses grip. What's the solution for this? Is it just to bend the knees more or is it a case of trying to lower my body down towards the skis.
It is hard to see it in the pic above, but i think that's what i am seeing.
bigger pic here
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
view from an armchair expert: bit difficult from that pic but you look like your outside leg is almost locked out so it probably is too straight. that said, you'd expect your outside leg to be extended at that point in the turn. however, as you cross the fall line and pressure builds up on your outside leg you should be looking to absorb that by allowing the ankle and knee to flex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Although on steep slopes your outside leg is naturally going to be a bit straighter, here it looks like you have too much weight on the inside, not enough on the outside. More weight on the outside should help it grip more.
The juddering can also be reduced by continuous and gradual absoprtion in the latter part of the turn, rather than absorbing quickly then sticking in that position.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Stiff leg = juddering skis. Once the turn has started, you need to regulate pressure on your skis. This is done by flexing ankles, knees and hips. Limit of flex is how much your ankles can bend - once you have reached this point flexing just your kness willl just put on the back of the ski.
When you have finished flexing, and before you wantr to go the other way, you can start to extend again....use this extension to bring your hips forward along the length of your ski so that you start the next turn on the front of the ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
shoogly, wat ski, and beanie1, says...
try not to push or increase pressure at the bottom of the turn but instead think about flexing or sinking into the lower part of the turn to minimize or soak up pressure build up which can cause chatter.
dont think too much about bending the knee but rather flexing the ankle, if you flex the ankles the knees will bend naturally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| shoogly wrote: |
I've noticed from pics from our recent pic that i probably extend my outside leg too much when putting a turn in.
This explains a kind of juddering sensation i sometimes get when carving high speed or steep turns - as the outside ski ultimately loses grip. What's the solution for this? Is it just to bend the knees more or is it a case of trying to lower my body down towards the skis.
It is hard to see it in the pic above, but i think that's what i am seeing. |
The more you extend that leg, the more you need to lift the inside shoulder and break at the waist towards the outside leg.
What I am seeing is a long leg and a banked upper body.
EDIT: Aim for the sensation of pinching your own waist, from the inside.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
shoogly, none expert advice; you might be extending that leg too quickly. Try to be more progressive. The outside leg should be at full extension at the same point in time as the inside leg has reached maximum compression. e.i as you reach the moment where you cannot pressure the ski any more. With the juddering, that suggests that you aren't applying pressure in the correct way. But it is hard to tell from one picture.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
The outside leg should be at full extension at the same point in time as the inside leg has reached maximum compression
|
ummmm no, you shouldn't ever be at max or mins, especially when skiing in steep or variable terrain. you need to have at least some remaining flex or extend to cope with changes in terrain or you end up in the locked position we see in the photo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
the pic below is from a steeper run... is my body still not upright enough in this. At least the locked out leg is not evident in this shot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
hmmm.. in an ideal world, what don't I like in that 1st turn. It doesn't look comfortable and maybe even in the survival stages.
I'd try and go into the turn looser and with the downhill leg less flexed (straight ) which the uphill leg should follow.
making sure a better body shape didn't come from bending at the waist only.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JT, if by "bending at the waist" you mean 'bending forward at the waist', fully agreed.
shoogly, same comment I made above.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
comprex,
yes..whole body wants to drive forward, so a better knee/ankle angle should achieve that, IMV
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
All good tips.
so i need to angle my knees and ankles more, get the body forward, don't extend as much, relax a bit and do it all a bit more progressively rather than one sudden movement.
thanks all - much appreciated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
shoogly,
I wouldn't worry about it too much...snap shots of one position might not tell the whole story and the snow looked great.. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Fishwins, credit where it's due: you appear to have more angulation of the upper body to accompany that extended leg. Your inside shoulder is higher up off the snow. If you click on the thumbnail I posted above, it might be clearer what I mean.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What I find works best to stop the juddering (and accompanying quad burn) is to consciously unweight the inside ski - you need to pressure the downhill outside ski, but do so by centring your weight over that ski rather than pushing it out and away from you with a stiff leg (which overpowers the edge of the ski).
So hips and body downhill - avoid leaning upslope - and flex the ankles to stay in contact with the front of the boot as you finish off the turn.
Dragging the outside pole though the turn as an exercise can help ensuring the right angulation - provided you hold your poles at a good height (level with belly button, 30 cm in front, 30 cm out). Cock your wrist back to engage the pole, don't drop the shoulder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
MartynT, welcome to snowHeads. That's an impressive resurrection of an old thread!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Tks., wasn't aware it was an old post, google'd "juddering skis" proud of myself for fixing a long standing bug bear. Result of which is a new found enthusiasm for skiing versus boarding - but now a daily dilemma, board or ski ?!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Lol... Welcome back old thread!!! There is a much more recent thread on edge judder, but I can safely say that more triangulation and relaxing a bit on steeper slopes has gone a long way to moving my skiing on. Still happens sometimes when I'm tired or not on it on any given day. Will try and find a pic when I'm not posting from my phone.
One thing this thread has highlighted though, is that I still ski in jacket and pants that are over 4 seasons old!!! Need to remedy that!
Really useful thread resurrection though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Have I just invented something with the use of the word triangulation? It was predictive text doing its thing with angulation
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
shoogly, sorry, finger trouble on my part - I had meant to say "a more fashionable hat" - not that I've got any room to talk 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I had a great lesson in Zell in March. My instructor emphasised the positioning of the hands during the turn. He told us to keep the outside hand lower than the inside (have i got that right - easier to just do it than to think about it!).
I guess this helped us to angulate more and engage the ski edges. It worked for me and i felt so much more in control on steeper slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
To be brutally honest, A photo is not a great indicator of how you ski and not a good place from where to gain feedback. Video is much better.
There are many photos of great skiers and world cup racers that show them in terrible positions but these are only momentary and transitionary. Sometimes, the best WC run can have some apparently horrendous skiing if only some frames are looked at.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Philbo wrote: |
To be brutally honest, A photo is not a great indicator of how you ski and not a good place from where to gain feedback. Video is much better.
There are many photos of great skiers and world cup racers that show them in terrible positions but these are only momentary and transitionary. Sometimes, the best WC run can have some apparently horrendous skiing if only some frames are looked at. |
agree with all of this, have taken quite a few pics of racers, while they look great in motion skiing you can capture some very different looking still shots of the same run especially during transitions, some of the best and worse pictures depending on your perspective can be captured during these moves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
no angulation from what i see, your out side ski will always lose its edge, try touching your outside pole on the snow, if done correctly it will bring your shoulders more level with the slope and this in turn will help you build the pressure up in the skis by flexing in to the turn gradually, keepin you in control and skis on there edges,
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
shoogly, Until this year my jacket was 11 years and about 600 ski days old, my trousers not much younger although they are still in use!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
under a new name, good for you. That orange jacket in the pic above is an Adidas goretex softshell. I got it off a rack in TKMaxx for £25 and it still looks brand new.
Only comes out when I don't really need decent weather protection though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
)
