 Poster: A snowHead
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Is there not a point here that no one is blameless. Who hasn't stood around rounding up members of their party prior to entering a lift maze? Well to the next guy down that's a potential obstruction. Who hasn't got themselves somewhere where they were glad to get out of with only a few falls or accidentally stood on someone's skis or saved a place in a busy restaurant for a person who didn't turn up?
You can also person to the mountains but you can't make them think? In a considerable amount of time spent in Canada the only semi serious altercation I had was with a old British duffer who was skiing inelegantly down a pitch a long way from the nearest groomer whil I was sat down on a board with considerable foot pain.
As he skidded past me he muttered in the classic style "Bloody snowboarders always sat down in the middle of the piste". I assumed he was joking but obviously from his demeanour he wasn't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Of course they do. The only solution is to revert to ungroomed pistes and long, skinny skis. Leather boots might help too.
IMVPACHO: I don't think the actual standard of skiing has increased at all. I think the problem areas/plateaus have shifted. 20 years ago turn initiation was difficult and tricky to learn. These days it's turn "management" and what to do once you have turned that are the problems. And of course, modern skis really, really do make everything much easier. So "standards" will drop (at least in the recreational space).
People avoid bumps (the epitomy of "piste" skiing skill IMV) and think that being able to float above the "powder" on big fat snowbard hybrids mean they can ski off piste.
I reckon you take a "decent" red/black run skier of 20 years ago, put them on carvers against a similarly grade skier of today on a pair of 190 Omesofts (a decent recreational ski of the time) and we'd soon sort the men from the pigeons.
What I find deeply interesting is that ski lengths are creeping up again...mwahhh ha ha hahh!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Murdoch,
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People avoid bumps (the epitomy of "piste" skiing skill IMV)
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Most resorts hardly have any bumps on piste nowadays. 
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David Murdoch, IMVPACHO? ( I can guess the IM and HO, buts what's VPAC?) 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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T Bar, oh they're there if you look for them
Chamonix Valley - Grands Montets?
Portes du Soleil - Renard/Chamossiere/Chery Nord/Yeti/Aigle (between the pistes)/"The (feckin useless most of the time) Stash"/Machon/Chavannette/Wall/Torgon Wall/"Up and Over"/etc...
Deer Valley,UT (I kid you not) - all over the frickin place
You can even find some in Champoluc (if you look really hard)
They're there if you know where you're looking...
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| ski girl wrote: |
I was hit by an Austrian skier this year who was showing off to his girlfriend - he was a v competent skier trying to go as fast as poss on a ski run in order to get air.
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Ski girl, I read your tale in another thread and think you're being way too generous. A competent skier wouldn't collide with anybody, let alone a very competent one. May I suggest he was simply a pr1ck ? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Axsman, In My Valued Professional And Considered Humble Opinion. 
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David Murdoch,
But you have to look for them now. When I was learning to ski you could not get around most resorts without encountering them. Virtually all black runs were mogul runs as were a large number of red runs. Nowadays there are some major resorts that have no marked and patrolled runs with any bumps. They rename them ski routes/ high alpine routes/itinaires or whatever and the apprentice skier is discouraged from going on them without guidance.
easiski, My first skis were a downmarket Omesoft, Omeflos I think they were called and very proud of them I was. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch,
Surely for your test you'd need to be on at least 2m straights? I seem to recall that only children skied on shorter skis and "real men" skied on 205s+ 
I wish I'd not chucked my teenage Elan RC SLs in a skip as they'd probably be a decent test of whether my skiing is all gear no idea. I suspect that it is.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Axsman, In My Very Personal And Considered Humble Opinion
SMALLZOOKEEPER, Oh!... to be professional, at all, at anything
T Bar, true, fair point. You can find them though...
easiski, Well, I never skied on them, working my way through Dynastar EquipeGT (dreadful junior sub-race ski - although I liked then at the time what I really wanted were my mates Rossi STs and SCs), Fischer RC4 "Target" (dreadful adult sub-race ski, trading shamelessly on the RC4 rep) at least getting onto Omeglass IIs while awaiting delivery of my Course Sls. I always thought the Omesoft was what all the cool lunch people skied on when not munching their way through Scotch pies at the Glenshee self service...
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Whatever happened to the Solaise mogul field in Val d'Isere? One of the most famous in the Alps I recall.
It's gorn missing. 
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, sorry, missed you. I only suggested 190s to open up the game. I would submit and agree that a day (or so) on straight skis is a tremendous metric of what your skiing is at. I only say this having skied (occasionally )n various sidecuts in lengths of (descending order) 218, 212, 210, 205, 190, 181 in the last couple of years so I'm quite happy to defend my corner.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, Thanx 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Is there no another way to look at this?
Have standards really dropped? Skis today, over and above those of 20 years ago, are designed to turn and have shrunk in length. Assuming the right information is input into the skis by the skier, then I would say, on balance, that the skis of today must be easier to ski on. Therefore, is it accurate to say standards have slipped? Just because the equipment is now designed to to do something it once wasn't? Are we saying that the WC downhill skiers are any less capable than the Killy's of yesteryear?
I appreciate that this is about recreational skiing.
So, I suspect that perceived standards may have dropped only in the areas of a lack of tuition and a lack of familiarity with the skiing code. There are more skiers today than 20 years ago, vis a vis more accidents, more holiday skiers cutting corners and relying on their mates to teach them. I can't imagine that 20 years ago this would have been much different (late 80's). Only today, with more forums to discuss these problems and more congestion on the pistes, it's perceived differently.
From my personal POV, I'm more of a piste skier, I've skied recreationally for 6 years or 15 weeks. I've invested in lessons to get off the "intermediate plateau". I can ski all piste conditions and race in resort GS competitions. Chopped up, cruddy, mogully stuff doesn't phase me. I don't like or go looking for moguls (at 44 and 95kgs I find them unecessary hard work), but I can ski them reasonably competently. I can ski the off-piste between pistes competently, but no more than that.
Is the suggestion that 20 years ago I would have been almost a skiing "god" to do this after a relatively short involvement? Or that standards have slipped so far now, that my ability can only be measured as a direct result of having "easy" skis to ski on?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If 'groomed pistes produce bad skiers' (with bad defined as one dimensional, or too quick for their skill level, or any other definition that fits, etc.etc.), is the reverse applicable i.e. - do 'un-groomed pistes produce good skiers? (with good defined as more rounded skill, speeds comparable with skill level, or any other definition that fits etc.etc.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mark Hunter wrote: |
From my personal POV, I'm more of a piste skier, I've skied recreationally for 6 years or 15 weeks. I've invested in lessons to get off the "intermediate plateau". I can ski all piste conditions and race in resort GS competitions. Chopped up, cruddy, mogully stuff doesn't phase me. I don't like or go looking for moguls (at 44 and 95kgs I find them unecessary hard work), but I can ski them reasonably competently. I can ski the off-piste between pistes competently, but no more than that.
Is the suggestion that 20 years ago I would have been almost a skiing "god" to do this after a relatively short involvement? Or that standards have slipped so far now, that my ability can only be measured as a direct result of having "easy" skis to ski on? |
As a recreational skier who has lived through ski development over the last 25 years, I can say that if you had started skiing in your late 30s back then, it's very unlikely you'd be capable of skiing the varied conditions you are confident with now after only 15 weeks. You would no doubt be a confident piste skier in that time, but you would probably be nowhere off-piste or in difficult snow conditions.
For me, modern skis have made much more of a difference to my off-piste ability than they have on-piste. Skiing crud, crust, chopped snow, powder, whatever now seems ridiculously easy on even a modest mid-fat ski, compared to the nightmare it could often be on 80s narrow skis. Probably why I'm a bit sceptical of the current super fat trend. The only thing that doesn't seem to have changed all that much is bump skiing. I'm equally rubbish in a mogul field on either old or new school skis!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops,
Dunno, but if you can go down the GM in 10"(..old measurements,  ) of fresh snow and then ski all around the hill in these good snow conditions for two days on 61mm superforce 3's in 190's, then you must be doing something right, IMV. There isn't a lot opf leeway for getting things wrong on those needles. By today's standards, you can fire up anything on a 90mm plus and it will turn for you. You might temper this with much steeper stuff and the fact that you were younger and fitter then, but something worked.
Today, you hear of people taking excursions much earlier in their ski career, just because they can on today's equipment. What is really depressing is that I thought I was a better skier .....say 3 years ago, than I am atm....so given that skis and stuff are getting better all the time...what the hell is wrong now..??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Mark Hunter wrote: |
From my personal POV, I'm more of a piste skier, I've skied recreationally for 6 years or 15 weeks. I've invested in lessons to get off the "intermediate plateau". I can ski all piste conditions and race in resort GS competitions. Chopped up, cruddy, mogully stuff doesn't phase me. I don't like or go looking for moguls (at 44 and 95kgs I find them unecessary hard work), but I can ski them reasonably competently. I can ski the off-piste between pistes competently, but no more than that.
Is the suggestion that 20 years ago I would have been almost a skiing "god" to do this after a relatively short involvement? Or that standards have slipped so far now, that my ability can only be measured as a direct result of having "easy" skis to ski on? |
As a recreational skier who has lived through ski development over the last 25 years, I can say that if you had started skiing in your late 30s back then, it's very unlikely you'd be capable of skiing the varied conditions you are confident with now after only 15 weeks. You would no doubt be a confident piste skier in that time, but you would probably be nowhere off-piste or in difficult snow conditions. |
So what you're saying is that had I learned to ski on equipment of 20 years ago, I categorically would not have been as competent as I am now?
In spite of investing in the same amount of tuition (equivalent to 2 weeks which included 1 week ski tuition "holiday")? In spite of being the sort of person that rises to a challenge? In spite of the technique taught at the time to ski on different skis?
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| moffatross wrote: |
| ski girl wrote: |
I was hit by an Austrian skier this year who was showing off to his girlfriend - he was a v competent skier trying to go as fast as poss on a ski run in order to get air.
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Ski girl, I read your tale in another thread and think you're being way too generous. A competent skier wouldn't collide with anybody, let alone a very competent one. May I suggest he was simply a pr1ck ? |
you can suggest that and I would not disagree with you, infact I would use stronger language than that - I am still not working, not driving, not able to do my other sports with weekly trips to hospital 2 months down the line.
He took no notice of signs on piste (Langsam ) or the FIS code, my point being that there are many skiers on the pistes now that ignore signs and the code, I think this is a major problem.
The carvers do allow less skilled people to ski quicker in a shorter space of time giving them the impression of not needing lessons . I personally like to think about technique there is always something you can improve on
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Skiing on piste is simply dangerous. Avoid them at all costs, I say. Much safer and much more fun 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think resorts should pay good skiers to ski slowly but erratically (in terms of turn size and shape) on blue and red slopes, while wearing armor. I don't mean body armor, I mean real Middle Ages armor, complete with sharp bits.
This would significantly slow down careless skiers, either due to self-preservation instincts, or due to the laws of physics.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gortonator, right on... stop the brutal grooming and head for the fluffy stuff.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, "General on-piste skiing" is what the vast majority do, only very few need, want, or ever have to run "slalom on an icy piste".
Having just spent a week with a 30+ years of skiing friend who freaked out when there was 6cm of fresh snow on the groomed piste and by early afternoon considered a groomed piste with 5cm of corn snow to be unskiable, I now know what a one-dimensional skier is. BTW she has done a preseason race training in Tignes with a well known trainer.
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You know it makes sense.
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Dypcdiver, yes, one dimensional skiers are limiting their fun by sticking to just one type of skiing. Out of interest, I wonder how many 'general on-piste skiers' ever find themselves required to ski an icy piste with short radius turns?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, I have good technique for that - Sideslipping 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frosty the Snowman,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, My 185 Fis 23m R Blizzards don't do short radius, but I can tail slide with the best.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dypcdiver, I'm sure you can crank 'em over and get pretty tight turns with them!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Chasseur, IMO age and weight should not be constraints to graceful and smooth descent through bumps...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Murdoch, no probably not but, they are a disincentive...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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stanton, so you did - though I didn't see the relevance to the thread you posted in. I wondr if you are a virtual skier who waffles but doesn't ski? I noticed you were allegedly in St Anton - but declined an offer to meet.
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| achilles wrote: |
| stanton, so you did - though I didn't see the relevance to the thread you posted in. I wondr if you are a virtual skier who waffles but doesn't ski? I noticed you were allegedly in St Anton - but declined an offer to meet. |
Yeah I am a virtual skier & in my imagination I am in St Anton
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stanton, right you are. Every skiing forum needs an armchair skier - and the last hasn't posted for some time. And it's nice to see a smiley face.
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On the old skool skis front I saw some classic white topsheet Course SLs in the window of a charity shop at the weekend. I think they may even have had Look turntables. I so nearly went in and offered a fiver for them to keep as a collector's item .
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FAQ
