 Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN has it about right... you generally carry it because you just know you will do it... but just as you carry it, you'll not stop thinking about what may be dangerous or not. It doesn't stop slopes sliding.....just because you have a bit more kit....!!!
You really ought to look at how slopes may go...if they go...where you'll want to be .... how quick to cross here and there... singles, all -in...etc
You really have to up your awareness all round...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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barry, fags, lighter, full hip flask.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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vetski,
got that covered with my drinks bladder - much better capacity 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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barry, but washing sticky booze out of it must be horrible. If I can find my hip flask - I know there's one in the house somewhere - I shall be filling it with sloe gin...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I used to loads, but now that I have all the stuff, it all lives in the ABS bag so I almost always take the whole lot rather than mess about repacking. You never know when you might bump into a bunch of people off somewhere interesting.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I use the rhythm method of off piste skiing. According to this if you wait till the middle of of two full moons before skiing between two pistes then it's perfectly safe and nothing will happen to you. No need to carry safety equipment, cos it just detracts from the pleasure.
Can't remember right now what was the name for people who practise the other rhythm method 
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Steilhang, Mummy and Daddy?
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Hurtle, oh well 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just to put a different spin on it, the "kit", peeps, shovel, probe, isn't just for *YOU*, if you own it, wear it, IMHO.
What happens if you see an ava and cannot assist in the vital first few minutes as you left your kit at home?
regards,
Greg
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kitenski, But we're not talking about backcountry skiing in this case. Are you suggesting everyone should carry it when skiing on piste or in bounds just because they happen to own it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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i go off piste naked 'so to speak'
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Steilhang, remember to turn off your mobile phone though. 
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| kitenski, But we're not talking about backcountry skiing in this case. Are you suggesting everyone should carry it when skiing on piste or in bounds just because they happen to own it? |
Yes I am. I was on a chairlift, skiing in bounds and saw a huge slide, triggered by 2 boarders one Easter. They both escaped fine, but had they got buried, I would have been able to quickly get over and assist, maybe even being first there.
regards,
Greg
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You know it makes sense.
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uktrailmonster, i think if you tend to carry a back pack anyway then it makes sense to carry the safety equipment where ever you are? maybe ??
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rayscoops, I always carry everything because I seldom ski a day only on piste - but even if I did I have just got into the (good) habit. How do you know in advance when you might need it?
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowball, indeed
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
Just to put a different spin on it, the "kit", peeps, shovel, probe, isn't just for *YOU*, if you own it, wear it, IMHO.
What happens if you see an ava and cannot assist in the vital first few minutes as you left your kit at home?
regards,
Greg |
That thought has often crossed my mind as well.
As I am so used to wearing a rucksack these days, it's no bother to carry my safety kit anyway.
The chances of me needing it in the situation you describe are obviously rare, however sod's law says that the one day I do venture out without safety kit, is that one rare occasion I might need it to help someone else.
Such is the nature of accidents.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, i think if you tend to carry a back pack anyway then it makes sense to carry the safety equipment where ever you are? maybe ?? |
When I'm skiing in-bounds I rarely carry a back-pack because a) I don't need one and b) hassle with taking it off for chairlifts. So I don't see why I should inconvenience myself by acting as an emergency piste patroller. I think it's up to individuals to carry the safety gear they need for the terrain they're intending to ski. So if I'm going for a day of in-bounds piste cruising I don't see why I should carry a backpack with avvy gear simply because I have one. It seems ridiculous!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| b) hassle with taking it off for chairlifts. |
I leave the waist-strap done up and just sling it around onto my lap.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowball wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| b) hassle with taking it off for chairlifts. |
I leave the waist-strap done up and just sling it around onto my lap. |
I just leave it at home.
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uktrailmonster
"So I don't see why I should inconvenience myself by acting as an emergency piste patroller."
I am truly appalled at your attitude.
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jbob, that's harsh. This isn't black and white. There's an equation involving likelihood of being in a position to help at an accident, (in)convenience of carrying the kit around and, I suppose, degree of disposition to be public-spirited. If you own a portable fire extinguisher, should you carry it all times in an urban environment? Should a doctor carry a minimum amount of kit around at all times when off-duty? I can admire your public-spiritedness (if you always carry avi gear) but not your haste to condemn others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jbob wrote: |
uktrailmonster
"So I don't see why I should inconvenience myself by acting as an emergency piste patroller."
I am truly appalled at your attitude. |
That's right quote me massively out of context. Of course skiing on-piste without my avvy gear makes me a selfish bstard of the highest order 
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laundryman, totally agree. Common sense prevails.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Uktrailmaster - I am not one to carry anything except my mini snowboard tool and some times I am amazed what people carry. I carry no back pack therefore would not be able to carry the safety equipment and would not wear a back pack just to carry the stuff, but if I was inclined to wear a back pack as some people are I would probably chuck the stuff in
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 10-04-08 18:53; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jbob wrote: |
uktrailmonster
"So I don't see why I should inconvenience myself by acting as an emergency piste patroller."
I am truly appalled at your attitude. |
Could you explain what is so 'appalling' about choosing NOT to carry avvy gear when planning to ski on piste? I (along with 98% of piste skiers) don't OWN any avvy gear - does that make me a bad person? How much kit SHOULD I carry in order to be of service to other skiers?
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If I'm carrying all that "stuff", I'm going off-piste to area that the gear might be useful.
Otherwise, if I'm not skiing off-piste, I'm not carrying all that cr*p.
If I'm NOT carrrying the gear but ran into people that plan to head off, I'm probably NOT joining them.
Simple, right?
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You know it makes sense.
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I often ski areas that I judge safe, do not have terrain traps and are fairly tracked out in stable snow/weather conditions. I'm often on my own so taking kit would not offer any great advantages. However... if I am setting out for the day with the intention of maybe doing some more extensive off piste then I will pack the kit just in case. In a resort with an avi training park then if I end up near it I will pop over for a quick search practice.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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i have been skiing off piste without the aforementioned tackle for 2 or 3 years, but i began to question my own wisdom on this 2 weeks ago in st anton as we were setting of lots of little slips. On a different danger - we were off piste but only a few hundred yards from a major lift when my ski partner disappeared, leaving only a 3' by 6' hole. he had skiied onto a snow bridge at the edge of a 20' cliff and it collapsed, luckily he lodged maybe 8' down and 40mins of effort later we had him out. that last incident plus the death of 3 aquaintances in the last 2 years makes me think i will be shopping for all the tackle i can get in the off season (not that any of it would have saved 2 out of the 3 of them).
So nobody in my experience gives you the eyebrows for not having the gear - but does that make not having it any wiser?
Actually on the eyebrows subject i have just remembered getting a bollocking off a guide in a bubble at Le Grave - but he's been the only one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Axsman, Its not the choosing but the rational.
Convenience.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jbob wrote: |
Axsman, Its not the choosing but the rational.
Convenience. |
So?
To quote Axsman:
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How much kit SHOULD I carry in order to be of service to other skiers?
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Is a pack of BandAid good enough? Or is a splint be too much? Full medical kit if you're a doctor?
How many drive around with a bicycle pump or a heart defibrillator kit? Even though one's chance of helping a stranded cyclist or a heart attack victim is probably way higher than helping out an avalanche victim while skiing on-piste.
And the rational of ANYONE not carrying those in a car (besides convenience)?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 11-04-08 1:27; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jbob wrote: |
uktrailmonster
"So I don't see why I should inconvenience myself by acting as an emergency piste patroller."
I am truly appalled at your attitude. |
What? Are you seriously saying everyone should carry a transceiver, shovel and probe on piste just incase they see something happen?
Maybe everyone should be first aid trained to paramedic standard and carry around a defibrillator when shopping just in case too?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jbob, If you were skiing in a fully avi-patrolled US resort, with no intention of skiing back-country, on a low risk day with a stable pack, would you wear the gear?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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it is about this time that some one should post that photo (that was in an avalanche thread?) of the huge slab slide just 5 meters to the side of a piste
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i may slip an avi transceiver in my pocket if i think i may be going a bit off piste if i am not carrying a backpack. but am happy to ski safeish edges, traverses without the full monty.
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The most useful bit of safety kit if skiing on piste is a mobile phone with the piste security number programmed into memory.
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rayscoops...or a repost of http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=89856&highlight=avalanche#89856 - a case where a  , skiing on piste for the day, was unable to help someone who subsequently died. If you have the gear, then carry it - it will rarely do any harm and may just save someone's life. If we followed uktrailmonster's argument to itsd logical conclusion then why on earth ever carry a shovel and probe - they're never of use to our own survival (except possibly using the shovel to dig a snowhole) and only ever of benefit if we're acting as "an emergency piste patroller"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, to be fair, i think if we followed either of jbob's or uktrailmonster's arguments (or at least the arguments that have been attributed to them...) to their "logical conclusion" we'd end up in a fairly ridiculous place.
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Anyone ski with a camelback or similar? My probe and shovel fit quite nicely in this, and are always to hand if I were to ever encounter a problem whilst on-piste - it weighs next to nothing, doesn't get in the way on chairlifts, and what is the point in owning it if I am not prepared to use it? My transciever is always strapped to my side, wherever I am skiing. Not necessarily for my protection, but for being able to assist in the locating of others. I also know how to use it, and make a point of doing refresher training every year - normally over a couple of beers within the first couple of days of my arrival in resort. I also make a point of having emergency numbers available, just in case I see something which may not nave been picked up by the SdP or whoever....
In the event of seeing a car crashing, or seeing someone collapse in need of medical attention, I would also make a point of stopping and seeing if there is anything I can do to assist - even if it is just calling the necessary authorities.
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FAQ
