 Poster: A snowHead
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After good progress from novice to competent skier - I appear to have reached a plateau.
I only get to ski one week a year and it inevitably takes me the first two days of the new holiday to get me to where I ended the last one! I am still improving, but now it seems to be incrementally rather than in major leaps.
I think the problem is natural cowardice! To progress I know have break out of my comfort zone and attempt more challenging pistes and really trust the instructors' advice. But once the lessons are over and I'm on my own - I return to the easier reds and even blues/greens.
Not sure whether all schools use the same grading system, but I'm an adult 'level 5' skier - and having seen what the 'level 6' group did last week, it seems many holidays away from my ability!
Any advice for getting 'over the hump', so to speak?
Cheers. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I spent a long time on that very plateau. What allowed me to progress was signing up for high quality instruction, and sticking with that for several years. I'd tried the local ESF or similar ski schools and it just wasn't worth the time or money. But then I started to use smaller, independent schools (British run in my case) and my skiing improved and my comfort zone got bigger.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I think the problem is natural cowardice! To progress I know have break out of my comfort zone and attempt more challenging pistes and really trust the instructors' advice.
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Spot on. I used to do a lot of waterskiing and was having difficulty in committing to the slalom course. For months my coach was trying to get me to lean and trust the ski but I could not do it; then one day I just said to myself f... it, if I get hurt so what and went for it. I did what I had been told, ran the course and from that day on my skiing improved by leaps and bounds.
Trust in the instructor and go for it, it is the only way.
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I think you're right that plateaus are more often in the mind than the body. I would say don't worry about it too much, everyone has their own pace. If you keep consolidating on the easier runs you will probably know when it is right for you to push the envelope more. Other than that I concur with rob (again). It's not so much an issue of trusting the instructor - it's trusting yourself once you're outside their scope of influence and trusting your own judgement
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think everybody hits the plateau...I had a couple of frustrating years when I just couldn't seem to break out. What got me over it was instruction - not so much on technique, more on confidence-building - 'Follow me!' said the instructor as he hared off down something I would never have done on my own. Of course, once I'd done it, I knew I could do it, so I did it again. I expect my technique was a bit dodgy, but confidence helps development there too. Also, buying good skis made a difference. I pushed myself quite hard - but whether you want to do that does depend on how balls-to-the-wall your personality is! You may have done so already, but have some individual lessons - I reckon that will help you more than group sessions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Don't know about anyone else but I get a a very uncomfortable feeling when vetski uses the phrase
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| whether you want to do that does depend on how balls-to-the-wall your personality is! |
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| So Soleil D'Or Crew wrote: |
| But once the lessons are over and I'm on my own - I return to the easier reds and even blues/greens. |
I think for some of us the standard lessons are too short. I was just like you - going nowhere - when a friend organised for a group of eight of us an instructor for the whole week. It was superb value. Not only do you get continuous tuition all day, but no silly debates about "where do we go now?", no worres about queues, and lunch was always booked and organised. It you can get together some like-minded mates and find an instructor who is good company, it is the only way to go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jonpim, this is something I've posted on before.
Right now, I am most interested in the instructors who impart a series of blocs, a front-brain checklist if you will, that will last through the off season, even if the back brain motion memory & muscle memory do not.
When one comes back, one merely runs through the checklist either with instruction or alone, and the knowledge is refreshed.
The checklist can be of exercises/criteria/component motions/ whatever.
Another, unrelated criterion for breaking off the plateau is to arrive at a high level of fitness so that self-discovery is most fruitful.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 2-04-08 19:50; edited 1 time in total
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Jonpim, I can't fault the instruction I've received - always enjoyable and useful. But I certainly reckon extra tuition may be a way to go.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| So Soleil D'Or Crew wrote: |
| I only get to ski one week a year and it inevitably takes me the first two days of the new holiday to get me to where I ended the last one! |
This I think is your basic problem if you can't ski more then you can throw money at the situation to help you - a few trips to the snowdome before your trip will at least get your muscle memory back, good quality private lessons will give you maximum improvement for your limited snow time etc
Or you can relax and not worry about it too much. Now you're on snowheads you're likely to find yourself encouraged into more frequent skiing anyway - its like the moonies 
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Why not try Bowles (Tunbridge Wells) next winter before you ski ? From October - March there are coaching sessions for intermediate and above skiers. A few sessions there will certainly help.
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You know it makes sense.
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| So Soleil D'Or Crew wrote: |
| I only get to ski one week a year and it inevitably takes me the first two days of the new holiday to get me to where I ended the last one! |
| eng_ch wrote: |
| I think you're right that plateaus are more often in the mind than the body |
My problem is not so much spending the 1st 2 days getting the ski legs back, but that from day to day my style can vary anything from level 3 to level 5 or so, often for no obvious reason, and sometimes even during the same day! I certainly find that who you ski with affects how you ski. When skiing alone at MSB it was OK, and was doing quite well pushing the skis a bit and getting more on the toes (usually been a bit on the tails). When skiing with the guy whose name I can never remember (Duke?), I think we were both going backwards, but the evening before with ronald and skisimon we'd both been ok. Then that day we bumped into flowa at lunch, and afterwards I could suddenly ski again. Same happens at Les Gets... If I ski with the chalet owner of the chalet girl, I can keep up with a reasonable style almost anywhere (athough off piste is another story).
Was thinking of a week at one of those "specialist" ski training places early next season. I'm guessing they have different classes for different levels of intermediate? anyone recommend one? don't want one that's too advanced. Anyone know roughly when they publish their dates for next season?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| andy wrote: |
| Was thinking of a week at one of those "specialist" ski training places early next season. I'm guessing they have different classes for different levels of intermediate? anyone recommend one? don't want one that's too advanced. Anyone know roughly when they publish their dates for next season? |
Snoworks publish their calendar late spring early summer from what I can remember. For a pre-season trip you could think about their "Technical" course which is held on the limited terrain of the Grand Motte glacier. This is a week of high quality instruction focusing entirely of core technique. Alternatively their "All terrain" course runs from last week of November first week of December.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So Soleil D'Or Crew
Now that you have signed up to sH, you will find that you no longer find 1 week skiing a year to be enough and as you hear of others going 3, 4 or more times, you will be encouraged to go on more trips. This will undoubtedly bring about the change off the plateau that you desire, but will also bankrupt you!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, thanks. Core technique sounds like a good starting point. If I'm really lucky, I could squeeze that in and then something early Jan (ie next year's vacation allowance!), before another MSB attendance when-/wherever that may be.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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andy, for a similar quality of instruction, and perhaps a bit closer to home for you Pete Silver Gillespie's Alpine Coaching does pre-season stuff at Hintertux.
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andy, I'd recommend an EpicSki Academy (but then again, I would!). If you're used to lessons in Europe, you might find it different, which might work for you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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get over to see ski and have a few lessons on plastic in the off season and then have a go or two at the snowdome prior to going on your next trip...
sometimes focusing on one area of improvement can help with confidence. If you can all of a sudden ski backwards or on one leg or ... you feel as though you have made tangible improvements and the old brain lets you do more.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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IMHO, just one week isn't enough to improve very much so either accept the plateau (which I guess isn't an option) or do some of the following:
Ski dry when you can, and if possible regularly, and consider coaching sessions and/or joining a club that do slalom training - it really helps IMHO even if you don't do it competitively (which I don't... yet).
If you won't/can't do dry another option is to use a dome but they can be very expensive, generally don't have the club structure you find at dry slopes and IMHO don't do as much for your technique.
Grab some extra weekends away, if you weren't in Brighton I'd suggest Scotland as a great option (particularly this season) but even I'll admit you are a bit far away on the south coast (although there were a couple of admirable people who drove up from your neck of the woods for the Easter weekend ski test at Nevis with us). More sensibly though there's the ski train to the Alps and short breaks you can grab so there are ways and means.
As suggested by others above, whilst away do a Snoworks, Epic or similar course.
IMHO, with all of those combined you should get off that plateau in a season and even doing just some should make some tangible improvements!
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How about trying some shorter, easier turning skis to build confidence. Would also help with learning carving techniques
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I find it interesting that lots of people and not just those that have posted on this thread, say it takes them two or more days to get back to the level they were at the previous year.
I am not wishing to sound critical but I do feel that maybe a little bit of negative thinking is creeping in when I hear that.
I find that I am back in the groove pretty well at the end of my first day's skiing in the new season. Fair enough I have been skiing for years so perhaps it is easier, however I would encourage people to think positively and say to themselves yes I can get back to where I was by the end of the first day and work hard, assuming you want to improve, to achieve that.
As well as being positive, it means that you then have the best part of a whole week to progress, rather than just a few days.
It is probably quite easy to feel that you are not skiing as well at the start of a new season, but factors such as the conditions you are skiing in can affect that perception. If you start your new holiday skiing in poor visibility when you ended the last season in brilliant sunshine on a high, you may feel you are skiing poorly, when in reality you are coping with a different situation very well.
Think positive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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richjp, I think you're right when you suggest that you find it easier to get into the groove because you've been skiing longer - your body has a more deeply embedded muscle memory for that activity, and thus retrieves a lot of information quickly when you ask it to do so. I'm more like you now in that, but in earlier years, despite being very physically active, my ski muscle memory was never that fast to come back...Day 1, fall over a lot. Day 2, fall over less. Day 3...Aha! It's like remembering phone numbers - some people remember quickly, other less so.
I wonder if those ski exercises most of us never do before we go skiing are supposed to help with reactivating the relevant muscles? I'll let someone else answer that rather than try doing them myself!
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vetski,
Try skiing ? Snowdome or dryslope.... a couple of hours and the memory comes flooding back. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ski, true - I was thinking more of the exercises outlined in ski mags at the start of the season, like squatting with your back against a wall and feet flat on the floor...ugh!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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vetski, Those exercises help with fitness, but to get the feel of skiing you need to be on skis. Being fitter certainly a good thing tho (but not the back against the wall one).
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ski, that violates the starting assumption of a fixed top limit to the number of days on skis, whatever that limit might be.
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, going to Bowles from Brighton doesn't; as I read it the constraint is numbers of days away from home. It's only about an hour, if that, so you can get there after work of for a few hours at the weekend. So Soleil D'Or Crew do what ski says, get yourself down/up to Bowles and work on that technique away from the snow. However from what you say it dows sound more like a confidence rather than technique issue. Again though, just doing more skiing will allow you to get more comfortable with your abilities and grow that confidence. Unfortunately it can't solve the problem if it's related to surveying the km of piste opening in front of you (sort of agoraphobia) - you may need to work on a strategy of breaking the view up into 80-100m segments  .
Whether you can improve on one week per year or not I think depends on your level. When I had only a few weeks under my belt, I felt I was pretty much back to where I'd left off within half a day. Once I'd moved onto blacks though, I felt I needed more "warmup" time, to get the joints and muscles moving in a less uncoordinated fashion, and that's when I started doing more than 1 week a year. Further up the scale, one of the guides we had this year said that it was not possible to improve beyond an adequate level of off-piste skiing on less than 3 weeks a year - any less that that and you're just standing still. I sort of agree with him, but we are then talking about well above the average holiday skier level. I think that a combination of a few weeks a year on snow and regular practice/refinement on plastic is a pretty good combination - but then I would as that's exactly what I do .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| So Soleil D'Or Crew wrote: |
After good progress from novice to competent skier - I appear to have reached a plateau.
I only get to ski one week a year and it inevitably takes me the first two days of the new holiday to get me to where I ended the last one! I am still improving, but now it seems to be incrementally rather than in major leaps.
I think the problem is natural cowardice! To progress I know have break out of my comfort zone and attempt more challenging pistes and really trust the instructors' advice. But once the lessons are over and I'm on my own - I return to the easier reds and even blues/greens.
Not sure whether all schools use the same grading system, but I'm an adult 'level 5' skier - and having seen what the 'level 6' group did last week, it seems many holidays away from my ability!
Any advice for getting 'over the hump', so to speak?
Cheers. |
You will never be an expert on one week per year.
You need atleast 2 continuous weeks, preferably more.
Practice is the key.
One week is not enough.
Good luck.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Learning curves for anything are not linear. You will always make huge progress at first and then it tails off as you get better. So it's not really a plateau, just a very shallow slope
The problem skiing 1 week per year is that the slope is shallow and extremely long!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So Soleil DOr Crew, Strangely I find myself agreeing with Whitegold  Practice is the key. On one week a year on snow your progress will be slow. However, you do have the opportunity to ski in the UK, albeit on a dry or indoor snow slope. Why not sign up for a few lessons and then keep going for practice sessions through the year with a few more lessons before your next holiday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| The problem skiing 1 week per year is that the slope is shallow and extremely long! |
The slope is shallow, and not necessarily uphill. I have skied with friends who have been doing a week a year for 25 years and they are no better now than they were 20 years ago. Why? Combination of poor fitness and lack of lessons. Specialist, concentrated, teaching is essential for all of us except the naturally athletically gifted who can just "look and copy" because they are not afraid, and have good kinaesthetic (sp?) feedback. They are also usually around 18 years old!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I too am on a never-ending plateau so I sympathise.
Although, for many people, it comes down to confidence or a mental block that's not the case for me. My problem is controlling acceleration. I find it hard taking the fall line as I can't slow down without turning to almost face up hill. It's frustrating, scary and tiring.
I know I'm not a dynamic skier as I suffer with a joint/back condition, but there must be an easy way to slow down on the steep - other people make it look a doddle.
Anyone know where I'm going wrong?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| marmalade wrote: |
I too am on a never-ending plateau
Anyone know where I'm going wrong? |
Take a 2-week ski vacation in Dec, when the snow is usually hard or icy.
Then another 2-weeker in Mar or Apr, when the snow is softer and easier.
Repeat for 5 years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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So Soleil DOr Crew, I also agree with Whitegold. I definitely improved when I started skiing more than 1 week a year. You need mileage under your skis to practise what you've learnt in lessons.
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Couple of my friends broke through their plateau by booking a personal guide for their holiday. Downgraded their normal accomodation and transport and spent the money on a ski guide - afterall, they reasoned, they were there to ski - that's what they should spend their money on...
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So Soleil D'Or Crew
| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| Now that you have signed up to sH, you will find that you no longer find 1 week skiing a year to be enough and as you hear of others going 3, 4 or more times, you will be encouraged to go on more trips. This will undoubtedly bring about the change off the plateau that you desire, but will also bankrupt you!! |
This is an accurate account of the snowHeads phenomina.
I used to be a normal average Brit skiier. One week, perhaps two before kids, a year. Happy to pootle round the pistes, nice relaxed lunches, cut the day short in snowy weather and thought I was OK style wise. I could never see me skiing deep snow or bumps though, but I enjoyed it.
I then logged onto snowHeads a few years ago.
I will have had four trips this year. I have a full weeks "ski-camp" each year. I am a member of the Lions Ski Club at Xscape Castleford. I own two pairs of skis (for on and off piste work). I service my own kit in my cellar. My boots are zip-fitted, aligned, bedded and modified. I get depressed in summer. My overdraft limit is larger. I wear a helmet. I carry shovel, probe and tranciever in a dirty great backpack. I'm online more than offline. My friends think it's weird that I go on holiday with people from the internet. Sadly, I also realise I'm not very good at skiing.
Unsubscribe while you can.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
I then logged onto snowHeads a few years ago.
I will have had four trips this year. I have a full weeks "ski-camp" each year. I am a member of the Lions Ski Club at Xscape Castleford. I own two pairs of skis (for on and off piste work). I service my own kit in my cellar. My boots are zip-fitted, aligned, bedded and modified. I get depressed in summer. My overdraft limit is larger. I wear a helmet. I carry shovel, probe and tranciever in a dirty great backpack. I'm online more than offline. My friends think it's weird that I go on holiday with people from the internet. Sadly, I also realise I'm not very good at skiing. |
I have a similar tale, although slightly more pairs of skis! But I'm still trying to work out what the downside of the forum is
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So Soleil DOr Crew, I'm still wandering around the intermediate plateau - but two things helped me progress: one was getting my own skis, and the other was giving up on all week group lessons (we still do occasional private lessons).
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