 Poster: A snowHead
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Just wondering what the scale is? My freeride boots are 120 apparently which sounds high given that some race boots are, I believe, 130, but they don't seem especially stiff to me so wondering what do the no.s mean?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd take the Flex ratings as pretty much a guide only. AFAIAA there isn't a set standard for boot stiffness. All you can be sure about is that a 130 will be stiffer than a 120 from the same Manufacturer's range.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Swiss Toby, mine are "150" (Nordica) and are apparently almost identical to Tecnica's "17". Go figger. You need to talk to SmallZooKeeper who has tested them all on an unbiased basis. Do they feel too stiff? Too soft? Too stiff sometimes and too soft sometimes?
More importantly. Does the colour work well with the rest of your kit? If it doesn't, "it's boot fitting time..." (trademark DM 2008)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Personally I think a right old load of cobblers is talked about boot flex by some people, blokes in the main!
If you're big and heavy then you need a higher rating, if a better skier higher still but if lighter and smaller (like me) it's lower... I've heard some people banging on about flex like it's some sort of macho thing, then seen them ski in their high flex rated boot and they have no flexion whatsoever, silly really.
As Spyderman says it's a guide and it varies between manufacturers, just get a boot that suits you don't get hung up on the numbers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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roga, I reckon there is much truth in that - many people do blag on about it.
But I'm not convinced it's that well correlated with weight. I'm short and light and really do prefer a very stiff boot. I know two (very) ex-WC downhillers who prefer softer boots. Really it's more down to personal taste unless you're racing seriously.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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roga, Right, Wrong and Wrong again.
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I thought it had much to do with your individual range of ankle flex. So more a matter of choosing a flex pattern that allows your ankle to flex naturally, but not further than its natural limit. Too stiff and you'll end up flexing your knees to compensate for lack of ankle flex. Too soft and you'll hurt yourself. No?
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uktrailmonster, Right, add in temperature, height, weight and skiing speed and that's pretty much all. All those factors change from person to person, so generic responses are worthless on this topic.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| roga, Right, Wrong and Wrong again. |
Glad I got the first bit right  
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, Right, add in temperature, height, weight and skiing speed and that's pretty much all. All those factors change from person to person, so generic responses are worthless on this topic. |
I thought part of that (height, weight) was what I said in the second bit that was wrong, just left out all the other qualifying factors, lol.
Would it be correct to say it's complicated? 
Actually the main point I meant to make before going off on a ramble was the bit about people banging on about their high rated boots etc - seems to be a bloke thing, rather like boasting about their skiing prowess at the bar but in fact when you see them ski... well, you know the rest!
I don't give a monkeys nuts what the flex rating of my boots is, however it acted as a useful guide when I tested some softer flexing versions of the boot I now have. On the basis of using them and finding they were too soft (but still great boots in all other aspects) I went for a higher flex, got 'em fitted properly and Bob was and is my uncle - most comfortable and best performing boots I ever had - job done! 
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We put more people in stiffer boots than is marketed for their level than in boots too soft. The softest boot we have is 80kn (shore), the stiffest 150kn. Few people can ski in a 150kn boot, even experts. Many can use a 130kn and almost anybody can use a 100kn boot. As physiology plays such an important part, to brag about your stiff boots is ludicrous. The boot, if is to work as designed, needs to flex 10°(7° with Lange) from it's Origin. If you don't have 10° of dorsiflexion available from the Origin of the boot then a more detailed analysis maybe needed and compensated for. Manufacturers are now all using the same test to assess Flex, the difference you feel between brands is due to the ambient temperature from shop to shop. Optimum test temperature is 22°c.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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I gather (at least from Warren Miller!) that many people ski in boots too stiff for them to use their ankles properly. I can see that argument, which suggests that most holiday/recreational skiers will be better in quite flexible boots. What, if anything, is the downside risk for the average holiday/recreational skier - what problem would we have, with boots a bit too flexible? Is this similar to the argument about skis a little too short?
How, if at all, does this discussion relate to forward lean? I am trying very hard to use my ankles more, and am succeeding to some extent, but the angles at which the local ESF instructors stand, even going up a nursery slope button lift, or down a gentle schuss, are completely impossible to obtain with my boots/ankle combination (I think my boots are pretty flexy, by the way (Rossignol Intense 2) and I don't think my ankles are particularly immobile). I do recognise, if only from having read it in a book, that only expert skiers can deal with an aggressive forward lean.
Sorry - more idiot questions!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Warren is right in principal, that a boot that you cannot flex through the stated 10° could hold you back. But, Boot flex, Ramp angles and Forward lean are about the available range of motion in the ankle and building a boot around it. If someone has only 5° of dorsiflexion, putting them in a boot too soft can cause more problems than putting them in a boot too stiff. A boot that is too stiff can be made to be softer. Warren, AFAIK isn't considering this when he sees a client that cannot flex their ankles. Is it the boot that is too stiff, or the Range of Motion that isn't available to the ankle? There is no generic response only analysis and balancing. If we raise the heel in a boot, thus opening up the ankle to obtain a greater ROM the ankle can work the ski boot through the required degrees, however then, the foot is repositioned away from boot center and the binding mounting may need to be shifted forwards to better balance the skier. This is a process that we at Foot Works are now conducting with all our clients. This is a simple process and many Bootfitters do not wish to embrace this evolution of our work. It may be a good test of the ability of your Bootfitter. If they understand and apply these principals, good. If they simply dismiss them and state that the work doesn't need to be done and that it's "Rubbish", maybe they don't understand it's importance. Bootfitting will constantly evolve, this is now highly relevant, however is just a part of the process as important as using a footbed or having the shell checked.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, thanks. When you're on.... what about alignment? Fashions seem to come and go. Hubby has problems - right leg sort of bends outwards (ie knee not over binding when he flexes, which the left leg is). He cannot get that right ski onto its inside edge.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, I have always grumbled about alignment in the past as it's alot of work for variable results. I think now, to be fair, we do everything we can. If we can get the boot/foot, fitted, supported, balanced and aligned all together, then we are best armed to ski in comfort and with consistancy. All these factors need to be addressed, however with so many phases of work, it means alot more time spent at the bootfitters. Some people over intelectualize the whole thing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have just bought a pair of Lange Fluid 80 in Val DIsere. The flex is soft, but when I ski on them (I am a non-aggressive 13 stone skier) they are 'just right'. Boots can be soft flex and yet very supportive.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My boots go to 11.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wear The Fox Hat, they must be loud!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SZK,
I've a pair of Salomon Evolution 7.0 boots (circa 7 yrs old), with moulded insoles which I bought a few years later in St Anton when my feet started killing me for some reason? The boots by and large do me fine tho I may be due a change some time soon. My only issue with them (other than the colour!!) is that when I warm up, and ski hard for half a day or so, I am then at the last notch on a few of the buckle bindings and I feel I could do with them being a tad bit tighter. In last 3-4 years I'm doing a lot more off piste and feel a tighter bound boot is far more advantageous in powder skiing. (am I right?)
Is it possible to add new buckle bindings to these boots so that they can be tighter and if so is this expensive?? i.e. would I just be better buying new?
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horgand, The chances are that if you are needing to do the buckles up to their maximum there is too much space inside the boot. This could be due to a number of factors but it would require a visit to a decent bootfitter to solve (more than likely with a new pair of boots)....
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Where are the decent bootfitters in the UK...Are there any?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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TelemarkKing - CEM in Bicester has a good reputation here. As do Lockwoods (whereever they are!).
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PS - Thanks
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FAQ
