 Poster: A snowHead
|
At Masopa's suggestion I am starting this thread on free-heel/telemark skiing (although I hasten to add I am only what I would call low intermediate standard on telemark - perhaps some more experienced people can contribute).
First a bit of skiing history. This information is from an excellent book(ref ISBN 1-898573-54-9) called Free-Heel Skiing by the American Paul Parker (who is the guru of modern telemark skiing - respect!  ).The father of modern era skiing is the Norwegian Sondre Norheim, who in the late 1800s developed the telemark turn on the slopes around his town of Morgedal in the Telemark region of Norway. He demonstrated this at a jumping competition in Oslo in 1868, where he awed the crowd with a 76 foot jump  followed by a graceful telemark turn to a stop. Quote:"This was a viable technique for the equipment of the day, which consisted of freeheels and wooden skis with no sidecut. In the telemark position one could wedge the forward ski slightly and have the effect of one long, sidecut ski. When properly performed the result was an elegant arc, most often a medium-to-long radius turn well suited to Norway's moderate terrain and deep snow."
When skiing moved to the alps the telemark turn continued to be taught and used, however by the 1920's Hannes Schneider's Arlberg Ski School at St Anton had developed the Alpine Technique where turns were initiated with a stem (the stem christie) which was more suited to the steeper terrain and equipment available, in which the heels were kept down on the ski. Telemark was officially dead - at least for alpine conditions.
In the 1970's in North America there was a revival of interest in the Telemark turn amongst back-country skiers on cross-country ski equipment who liked to tour off the prepared pistes. Crested Butte, Colorado was one of these centres of this revival in interest. I first tried Telemark equipment for a day at Crested Butte in 1988 - at that stage and for a number of years thereafter telemark skis were longer and narrower than the alpine skis and the boots were still leather. The binding used was the classic cross-country 3 pin Rotafella (Norwegian for Rat-Trap!) binding in which 3 pins on the base of the binding engage with 3 corresponding holes in the duck-bill toe of the boot. Being leather this meant that although the boots had the required fore/aft flexibility, compared to plastic alpine ski boots and fixed heel bindings there was very little side -to side torsional stiffness, which I found somewhat disconcerting. In the mid 1990's plastic telemark boots were introduced (which have a flexible bellows section to allow the boot to be flexed in the fore/aft direction) which give a quantum leap in torsional stiffness and control. At the same time a number of alternative bindings have come onto the market, and the length and width of the skis is now the same as alpine (in fact many telemarkers use standard alpine skis).This brings us up to the present.
You may ask - why bother with a free heel? I would say that with modern free heel equipment you can do all the usual alpine turns (snowplough, stem turns and parallel, plus you have the option of the telemark turn (which looks and feels way cool when done well plus if you need to move on any flats its a lot easier and quicker to get along with the classic langlauf style).
A great US based website for more info is www.telemarktips.com
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 25-02-04 22:18; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Nice bit of history - thanks AP. I must confess that out of all "alternative" disciplines, free-heeling seems the most appealing. Certainly seems worth giving a go compared with ankle-rippers (sorry, blades) or learning to how sit on my backside (sorry - the main thing that puts me off boarding is going back to a complete beginner again).
The concern I have with telemarking is that a) I'm not a good enough alpine skier, so I still have loads to learn on this, and b) I've heard that telemarking is hard - VERY hard. Horror stories of whole seasons to lean how to turn properly have put me right off!
What's the real story - it looks so cool, and certainly is a bit different to see in most French etc. resorts.
And do I need to buy a pipe to suck on as I freeheel along the flats? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
As an alpine skier I have never progressed beyond the "intermediate plateau", so I would say that any intermediate alpine skier has a sufficient foundation to try telemark. When you say you've heard it's hard do you mean its difficult to learn (which given some proper tuition I would say it is not - or no more so than alpine) or do you mean its physically hard (which being a sedentary office worker I would agree it is.) However when free-heel skiing you don't have to make every turn a telemark turn - when you are tired (or its too steep for you) you can always revert to parallel 
The link to telemarktips I posted above usually has some interesting videos of telemarkers - I have collected a few telemark video clips on my PC from various sources. One particulary interesting one is a recreation of original Norwegian telemark skiing style of the 1870s. Unfortunately I don't have my own website, but if anyone can host it (It's a mpeg1 file about 4.5MB size) I can e-mail as an attachment.
Anyway although I'm still getting my bodyclock back onto UK time (having come back from Canada a few days ago) its time for me to logoff and go to bed.
Bye!
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 24-02-04 21:58; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I can host it - if you post it to me in work hours where I have broadband. check out my profile for my website and a link to my email address
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
It goes back to a fascinating article I once read on telemarking. The article discussed the pros and cons and basically it came down to the fact to be able to turn properly, you really need a LOT of practise. However, I don't know how capable the subject of the article was - for all I know, he may have been a muppet!
If it's not that difficult to learn, I might be tempted...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Thanks for the info Alastair - really interesting. Something I've always wanted to know more about but think I have too much to do to still master alpine skiing before I try myself.
I saw a group telemarking in La Plagne earlier this year and thought they looked so graceful and smooth....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Our guide in Ste Foy this year used teles. Reckoned that using the natural hinging action of the knee instead of lateral forces was much kinder to them in the long term. I understand a guy at Milton Keynes is running beginner courses. Here's a photo of a friend of mine after his first lesson
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Weird - I'm sure I read your post a while ago Alan, but it appears to be new.
Very strange!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I can see why someone might want to telemark if they have already tried and got bored with alpine skiing, snowboarding, monoskiing and snowblading. That's a big if!
I have used either alpine trekkers or Diamirs for touring to get away from the crowds, and it's great, precisely because your very quick, safe, efficient and fun normal technique can be used for the downhill bits. Surely telemarking is a bit obsolete nowadays, and just an artificial way of introducing more difficulty to an already challenging-enough sport?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Hi Alastair. I have posted your clip here . For some reason I couldn't convert it to wmv so I have left it in the original mpg1 format. On my system it downloads first and then opens in Realplayer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
nice vid - Alastair do you know what year was it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Alastair, scary stuff on those skis, rather you than me...
Alan: loved the 'trip' clip...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
What on earth are they carrying in their hands - chunky poles? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I think it's just one big pole Tony - used for steering, braking and who knows what else - no doubt Alastair will enlighten us! PG - keep pestering Lorraine, we need that table clip 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Great videos, Alistair 
Is there any evidence that the chaps from the 19th century got up to those 'gnarly' tricks?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Ooh. They're rather good, aren't they?
Thanks for the videos Alastair - telemarking looks excellent, although not so sure about the accompanying "Christmas present jumper"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In Norway there is a company called Dale (pronounced Dahle) who make "Christmas present jumpers" for skiers. The best type are lined with Gore-Stop which is a breathable fabric but which stops any wind, and they are quite warm enough to ski in in reasonable winter temperatures. The choice of pattern is of course up to you
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Alastair - that explains things. I may give this a try!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Just bumping this 20 year old (!) thread of mine to note that the guru of modern Telemark skiing Paul Parker who I mentioned in the first post has sadly recently died (I believe due to cancer).  R.I.P Paul, I hope you are still dropping a knee in Heaven....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've never done any telemarking myself but I used to think it was a bit boring and slow until we had a trip to StAnton in 1999 and one of the Crystal ski reps was a former Canadian olympic ski team member who was also a telemark skier, she had telemark bindings screwed onto some random piste skis that she used for practicing and I asked if it was even possible to ski fast on telemark skis and she proceeded to fly down the Rendl 1 red run (for anyone who knows it) at a speed I could never hope to achieve on any ski. That changed my mind about telemark skills and also realize how different from the average skier, a professional racer is 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I have one of Paul Parkers books. I found it fascinating how Paul fused Tele and alpine.
I wondered if it was his attempt to convince the alpine skiers that Tele was not such a dark art.
R.I.P
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I once watched a Ski Club member doing jump turns on telemarks. It was on a seriously steep slope that the Guide was using to test that we could all do jump turns I couldn’t have been more impressed. Colin, I know I’ve seen your name here somewhere. Own up now!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One of the best books in English on skiing (tele or alpine). Loved the short stories about his ski adventures. A bit dated now (what with NTN and new skis) but a really good place to start still.
| Quote: |
Paul fused Tele and alpine
|
"Never forget you can do a parallel turn on telemark.." seemed to appear on every page. There were some folk who claimed never to have seen Paul tele!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Oh, I have that book.
The best tele skiers I've ridden with all do a lot of parallels when the going gets tough. I think that's why I don't do it, really.
Not that I've looked closely, but technology is definitely way better and getting better still for this.
But it won't change the basic problem, which is that it's easier to do a good parallel turn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| JohnS4 wrote: |
| I've never done any telemarking myself but I used to think it was a bit boring and slow until we had a trip to StAnton in 1999 and one of the Crystal ski reps was a former Canadian olympic ski team member who was also a telemark skier, she had telemark bindings screwed onto some random piste skis that she used for practicing and I asked if it was even possible to ski fast on telemark skis and she proceeded to fly down the Rendl 1 red run (for anyone who knows it) at a speed I could never hope to achieve on any ski. That changed my mind about telemark skills and also realize how different from the average skier, a professional racer is |
I would have hoped that a former Olympian would find a better gig than being a crystal ski rep!
RIP Paul.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| phil_w wrote: |
| ... The best tele skiers I've ridden with all do a lot of parallels when the going gets tough.... |
Great thing is ... you can parallel all day on tele-kit if you want to, but you can't do a single Tele-turn if you're out on alpine kit
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@geoffers, Yes and everyone always notices a tele skier. In some resorts you may only see a handful each day.
The question tele skiers always get asked is ‘Can you lock down your bindings ?’ the Answer is no. in fact most telemark skis don’t even release in a fall but that doesn’t seem to matter as your knees don’t get loaded up.
The worst thing about tele is skiing through sticky snow or getting your weight too far forwards there is nothing to stop you going over the front
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
. The video was released about 3 years ago by a Telemark binding manufacturer as a promotion for telemark when they introduced a new binding called the Skyhoy. This video is a recreation of early telemark skiing using old style wooden skis and bindings (the introductory part is titled Morgedal (see my first post) 1860-1890.
by another Austrian ski pioneer Mathias Zdarsky - fortunately it never took place.
Isn't that what the telemark stance is for? 