 Poster: A snowHead
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Well, terrible though it is, I've just about managed to squeeze another week of skiing out of the season (between the MSB and the EoSB).
So, I'm heading off to Soldeu on the 29th to take (and attempt to pass) the Canadian Ski Coaches Federation Level 1 (Entry Level) course. I'm interested to see the differences in approach between the instructors and coaches courses. I know that there's a strong racing emphasis on the coaching course (though unfortunately no actual racing), and an emphasis on working with young children (who'll frequent the racing clubs).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, thanks, interesting thread.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CSCF 1 shouldn't cause you any problems. To become fully certified you are required to do a years shadowing in a race club. To gain advanced certification you also need the Park and Pipe course. THere is not as much of a racing emphasis as you may think.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Rossfra8, to become fully certified do you know if the race club has to be run by CSCF coaches, or will any race club do?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've decided to do a day-by-day account of what I've been up to (on the snow, not in the classroom) for anyone interested (and because it gives me something to do whilst I'm downing the G&Ts logged onto free wi-fi).
First I will say that the CSCF L1 is a 3 day course, but the one in Soldeu runs over six days (with one in the park - a day I am looking forward to as I've never even been in one before, except passing through them in Whistler).
Day 1 (of 6)
We looked at session planning: IWACC
- Initiation/Introduction
- Warm-Up
- Activation
- Cool-Down
- Conclusion
We briefly thought about the introduction and what's included - talk about what's in the session, potential for ideas from kids and keeping it short (also mention time frames to keep them focused).
We spent the morning considering and (essentially) doing a long warm-up. Stopping to discuss factors that would affect the warm up for kids between 5 and 11 (which is what the L1 is aimed at). Physiological and psychological factors were discussed. We did a number of exercises that are good for warm-ups (general - to get the blood flowing and the muscles warm) and predominantly ski specific drills (for balance and activation).
After lunch we did a session to improve our skiing. My main faults were:
- A lack of patience (steering a little when the edges didn't immediately grip) which meant my train lines weren't quite perfect - just wait another second and the edges will do all the work, leaving the standard issue tracks.
- And a narrow stance (not quite my Italian impression as seem by Mr/Mrs Axsman, but still too narrow) - I worked on really extending the outside leg and it worked, I felt much more comfortable at speed and even managed to carve down a black
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Following our ski improvement we looked at the cool-down. A non-directed chance for the kids to just ski some easier terrain at their own pace, putting into practice the skills worked on in the session and reducing intensity before some stretching and a re-cap of the session (in the conclusion).
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 30-03-08 21:13; edited 1 time in total
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skisimon, excellent. Will look forward to your report of the rest of the course.
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skisimon, excellent - I may well be looking for something like this myself in a year or two's time. You've also done some instructor courses too, IIRC. Is every/anyone there some level of instructor too?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, I hope the rest of my log helps you make the leap!
I'm just thinking... Of the eight of us, six are currently L2 instructors within Andorra (four Brits and two Chileans), of which I believe two are aiming to do their CSIA L3 next week. Then there is me and the other guy. I believe he's done at least the L1 instructor course (might even have done the L2, I'm thinking back to this morning's introductions). Then there's me with my L1.
Despite that everyone is an instructor (or has at least passed a course for it) I don't think it matters a huge amount. It is a different approach. The advantage is that you've used some of the terms before and probably know what they mean (although I've forgotten half of them since my CSIA course). Carving on a decent pitch (easy red) is just about the only pre-requisite that I can tell so far - anything else is included in the training (such as carving on steeper terrain and poor snow).
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beanie1, I'd suggest it has to be a CSCF run one where you can be mentored by a higher level coach.
skisimon, who is your conductor? You getting much feedback?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Chris (not sure of his surname). Spends a lot of his time in Europe advising for BASI. Used to coach the Australian and New Zealand World Cup teams and has even worked with the Austrians. He's provided a useful amount of feedback for what we've been doing. We managed to identify and correct two relatively important problems within an hour or so of ski improvement.
He's got the approach just right in my opinion. Even though we've got six days to do a 3 day course, were still skiing pretty solid, full days, but we're incorporating (already) things that aren't entirely on the course and being given the opportunity to direct the session in a way appropriate for how the group is feeling and what were comfortable with and what we want to work on. A lot of the warm up time was virtually self focused - we were able to experiment with different exercises/drills and then discuss them and their pros/cons afterwards, then maybe have a more suitable drill suggested to try on the next pitch or flat. We're also going to touch on some stuff around the fringes of the course and some stuff with a bit more of a L2 slant - e.g. we're all looking forward to the opportunity to get involved in setting and setting up a course for some gate training.
Did you do the course whilst you were out in Banff? (Or elsewhere even).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Banff with NONSTOP along with CSIA level 1 and 2. Opted out of park and pipe due to injury. Is it in Andorra you instruct?
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skisimon, Chris Hillier? If so, he was who our head coach did his L2 with this last summer in Aus. Couldn't sing his praises highly enough. Should be a great week.
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You know it makes sense.
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I haven't really done any instructing (just a little naughty ad hoc stuff). Planning on heading to Whistler next year - I think I'll regret it if I don't because when I return to the full time RN I wouldn't expect to leave until I was at least 35, by which time I'd have missed the boat for a working holidaymaker visa (which I've already got sorted for next season).
What did you think of the CSIA L2, I'd be looking at doing that early season when I get out there.
PS. Apologies all for going slightly off-topic, but it is my thread. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skisimon, If you can avoid it don't go to Whistler. I've been speaking to alot of people and whilst it is one of the best hills about it is not a great place to instruct. You are one of over 1600 instructors for a start! Have you looked into many smaller resorts? The wages are generally better in the U.S for instructors! L2 I just went and skiied and taught for a week. I didn't have any issues. Wouldn't say I aced it then again I was well above standard for both skiing and teaching. The nerves got me though-on that front i didn't enjoy it!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rossfra8, I had thought about other resorts (mainly LL, but a couple of others too), but I'm probably going to stick with Whistler as I have relatives in Vancouver. Granted it is a huge school, but that does have it's advantages. veeeight has been good enough to let me know about the training available and it is something to behold - the advantage of so many instructors is having lots of L4s and enough people to make the training programme viable to be on a large scale.
Anyway, I'm off to bed. It's midnight here and I've got a reasonably early start!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skisimon, If you need a contact in Banff-ie Club Ski. I can put you in touch. LL and Sunshine also offer the programmes with level 4's. They have more than their fair share.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Chris (not sure of his surname).
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Sounds like Chris Hillier. A local Whistler-ite. Runs sidecut racing.com.
Rossfra8, there is no better training thatn Whistler Blackcomb Ski School in the world, no one else runs training programs for it's staff anywhere near as comprehensive. 1600 is the total number of ski and snowboard instructors, but this is broken down into so many smaller departments. No other resort in the world has the number of L3's and L4's in Whistler just dedicated to training, let alone available for regular teaching.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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veeeight, didn't suggest an amount, or that it was better, merely an alternative. No need to go on the defensive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, that's the guy. Excellent from him so far.
So far I'm getting some good feelings from really getting a larger edge angle. That's quite a development, as I hadn't previously been carving properly - see my video from last week, where you can see that I steer a little bit towards the end of the turn as opposed to letting the edge do the work. I've done a few drills to get a real feel for the edge 'railing' with just one ski and then two, getting the feeling that it really will hold has improved my confidence to just wait for it to do its job.
Anyway, I'll be back with Day 2's account in a bit, but have just finished a draining day (9-4 hours on slope, then 4-7.45 in the classroom, or rather the saloon...) so am going for a drink and a stroll.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Day 2 of 6
First off today we did a warm-up. We discussed appropriate terrain for warm-ups, preferably so everyone is contained and the coach can watch and give feedback to everyone.
Then we moved onto some more development of our own skiing, with an emphasis on edging, and with that inclination and upper body separation (leading to angulation).
We played with initiating the edge by just rolling our ankles (a little tricky) and then just inclining (no lower leg/ankle movement or separation). It was suprising how much more solid this felt, even whilst trying to eliminate angulation. This was all good because it meant we started to 'feel' what action/movement does what - the results of the individual components of a turn.
Moving on from the inclination (now with ankles/knees) we looked at being able to get the hips much lower to the snow by separation. Getting angulation was the key, we concentrated on getting this without losing our 'stack' (i.e. keeping the body aligned - don't let the hip drop!). We also discussed the appropriate times during the turn to introduce separation. A couple of these runs were videoed, including some long carved turns with a focus on angulation on a black.
After watching the video and having a working lunch, we focused on tactics. Trying to work on being able to ski a direct/fall-line as opposed to wider/rounder turns which lose momentum on a flatter slope. Whilst doing this we looked at skill analysis from a coaches perspective and we did a little coaching. Skill analysis includes:
- Observation (view from different positions - above, behind, below, side)
- Evaluation (comparing expected/desired performance with actual)
- Diagnosis (TTPPEE teepee)
- Prescription / Coach Intervention
For observation, Chris stressed that a coach is not looking for a particular 'style' of skiing (i.e. not interested if it is elegent, or the body shape is this or that), but are looking for good bio-mechanics. This is done by concentrating primarily on the skis and how they are performing, this indicates whether the bio-mechanics are right.
Teepee shows the possible categories of reasons that could be causing problems - deciding on the correct one affects whether your solution will work:
- Technical
- Tactical
- Physical
- Psychological
- Enviroment
- Equipment
Prescription, as you would expect, is coming up with ways to solve the problem (i.e. drills/exercises to give the athlete a feel of what should be happening). Coach Intervention however is more general feedback - well done, that's not right etc, if it's not right, tell them but let them try and come up with something to help (they my try something else that gives them a better feel), it also gives the opportunity to facilitate the athlete to help themselves.
Then we did a quick cool-down on our own and met up for the evening's theory session.
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Also, have checked about the other guy in the group. He's got his L2 as well and is also planning on doing his L3 next season. He has been instructing (although not full time) in one of the French Pyrenees resorts where he now lives. So, I'm definitely under-qualified compared to the rest of the group.
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skisimon,
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He's got his L2 as well and is also planning on doing his L3 next season.
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Are you talking CSIA levels?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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beanie1, think he is talking about CSIA yes.
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Yes, CSIA; I was referring to a post earlier in the thread after GrahamN asked if any of the others were instructors.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Okay, brief account of the day as I've got to eat before meeting up with Dypcdiver. Which reminds me, I've got to find that Hawaiin shirt...
Day 3 of 6
Boy was today good. Awesome stuff and I really felt it coming together, the feeling of being solidly on an edge all the way from the start to the finish of the turn was something I hadn't truly experienced. It was orgasmic... 
We spent most of the day doing ski improvement, as we have the time to on the 6 day course.
We again looked at the warm-up. This time considering how to have it running. It can be beneficial to allow the athletes to decide their own warm-up, providing feedback as appropriate, as opposed to a group wide generic one. Why? Not every skier will need to work on the same things.
We looked at ways to tackle steeper terrain where pure carving is the domain of a very select few. As part of this we discovered the difference between railing (being on edge but having no real control of the size of your turn) and pure carving (again being on edge, but having the skill and ability to alter your turn as appropriate for external factors such as terrain and other skiers).
We moved back onto medium terrain and did some video. Then another working lunch whilst discussing the issues seen on the video. (I couldn't believe the difference in my skiing from yesterday to today on the same terrain).
After lunch we did a few more runs and looked at coaching ourselves by selecting a few drills to practice for the elements of our skiing that needed work on (having watched the video). Having got the edging sorted, I started to concentrate on greater separation between upper and lower body.
Then we moved into cool-down and came off the mountain (eventually - my cool down went on for a while I was having so much fun!).
Our 'homework' was to start thinking about what we were going to do in our coaching sessions tomorrow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skisimon, sounds awesome 
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skisimon, wish my CSCF had been as "in-depth" as this. Sounds great! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Note about today. Owing to CSCF rules (regarding liability) whilst doing training in gates (even brushes) whilst on courses, I wore a helmet for the first time today. I may well have been converted: it was no-where near as restricting as I thought it would be and I didn't really notice it, however, I don't think I'd where one on days like today unless I had too - boy did I get hot with it on.
Day 4 of 6
Today we did some work in a slalom(ish) course. Using three bushes arranged horizontally for each turn, we had available three different lines to take: direct, wide or in between. After setting up the course (wey hey, got to use a snow drill!  ) we did a quick warm up.
We discussed tactics for skiing the course: what the advantages and disadvantages of each line were. The main things we considered were the speed gained/lost on each line and the ability to make wider turns without steering. In particular, when working on the outside/wide line, we considered what the best turn shape is and what the skis should be doing as you pass the gate.
The warm-up most of us had done hadn’t been of much use for what we were doing, so we looked at the importance (particularly on race day) or warming up appropriately for the course – for us that meant lots of quarter turns down the fall-line, whereas most of us were doing drills and skiing much wider turns. We also thought about doing drills both in and out of the course and that often, despite having set up a course, it can be more fruitful to move the athletes out of the course and get them doing drills whilst free-skiing alongside the course (one less thing to be distracted by).
Another working lunch then followed, with more video analysis – something which I can’t overstate the effectiveness/usefulness of. It really is fantastic for your skiing to see yourself, actually see what is wrong, discuss causes and possible solutions, and then head straight out on skis again with it right at the front of your mind.
After lunch we moved into our coaching sessions. We went through four of the group before heading in once the snow started to get slushy. We saw a number of coaching styles, all with good and bad elements. This meant we were able to discuss these and pick out the good examples.
The main things we considered regarding the coaching were: feedback given by the coach (keep it short and to the point – you’re not instructing), skill analysis, tactics to get around drills that aren’t working for someone, keeping it fun and motivational, demo skills, and the introduction of the session (including shifting emphasis for different athletes who may have different issues).
Then a quick cool down (today I wanted to get in as it was getting a little too warm!).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Another great day. Wish I could be there!
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, take it next year it was a cool course...
skisimon, great reports, does this course get you a CSCF L1 coach qualification? or something else. The BASI L1 is 5 days and is based on the CSCF one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, I proably will. Common Theory next month, Alpine Coach 1 next season and maybe Mountain Safety. Are planning on doing the shadowing to also get the Canadian certificate?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, you first have to take an online test to get the dual qualification and surprise surpirse BACE hasnt registered us yet.. Once you have the test done you are dual "certified" and if you get observed by a L3 or higher you can be signed off as trained...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How much observation by an L3 is required, and where can this be done?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, someone said it's a year coaching in a race club run by CSCF trainers. You don't have to do it to progress to the next stage though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, it certainly was an awesome day (again)! I'd definitely recommend doing something of the like, CSCF or BASI since they've started to work with the CSCF.
beanie1, pretty much. From the CSCF side of the fence, the route from 'trained' to 'certified' is the completion of a work-book like task (which essentially takes about a season). This can be signed off by a coach who is not necesaarily CSCF qualified, as long as they are of appropriate equivalence and have been 'trained' in the requirements of the work-book. As you say, you don't have to progress from 'trained' to 'certified' in order to progress to the next level. (An option available to those who may not want to coach 5-11 year olds).
Trained to certified at L1 is achieved via the work-book system; at L2 it is achieved by passing an assessment by a visiting assessor; and at L3 it is achieved by passing two assessments by a visiting assessor (one on a normal training day and one on race day).
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Common Theory next month |
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Common Theory next month |
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I have some time and just want to get it out of the way.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stewart woodward,  My girlfriend is probably coming up to Aviemore with me so at least I'll have something to do in the evenings!
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FAQ
