 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm not going to confuse myself anyway soon by actually trying it.
However, I've watched the video on the MSB thread and there were folks doing it on holiday that I watched, and I've got a question regarding the technique that might help me to appreciate the technique more when I see it demonstrated.
I appreciate the fact that the heel is free, but why is it necessary to adopt the exagerated bent knee - heel-up stance particularly when traversing the width of the mountain, but also when going round a bend. If one foot can remain flat on the ski why can't the other?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| If one foot can remain flat on the ski why can't the other? |
In fact - skiing conventional p-turns is easy on tele-kit: when the going gets difficult or you're tired you often use this in your armory of turns (along with snowplowing etc).
However the beauty of telemarking is the dropped knee in the t-turn - I guess the question you could ask yourself is "why do you lift your heel when you walk?" - it's a very natural stance and very efficient in use...
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 16-03-08 22:22; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, I've never telemarked and probably never will, although it looks great. I guess that the kneeling thing is to do with weighting and unweighting. To keep the foot flat with a free heel, you can't move weight forward, obviously, so you have to lift the foot and drop the knee to do so. This is probably rubbish, but I'm convinced.
I skied for week , years ago in Aspen, with a couple of accomplished telemarkers, and it was really impressive watching them hurtle down snowy mogul runs and the like on one knee.
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Megamum, as geoffers says, you can ski just the same on telemark bindings. You just need the reactions of a cat if you hit something and your weight goes forward.
Splitting the stance and getting lower makes you more stable.
It also looks very cool when done properly 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PhillipStanton, I agree it looks very neat when its done well. Telemarkers were coming down the wall of the mountain, a reasonably steep and sheer face of the slope - a marked black and to my mind reasonably steep for a black on them in February and making an excellent job of it too. The chair went right above the run and so you got a good view of them.
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| Quote: |
| In fact - skiing conventional p-turns is easy on tele-kit |
I tried to do p-turns on the tele kit, but found it hard - I think maybe I was nervous of losing my balance, having already spent plenty of time face down (though I do now understand the comments I've seen on tele threads about a tele faceplant being a whole new experience)! Also, I didn't really feel secure enough in the bindings - I worried that my heel might slip out. Presumably unlikely, since Alastair Pink skied the Lauberhorn race freeheel but mostly using p-turns? It was a lot of fun though, and surprisingly enjoyable going back to being a total novice at something.
The other thing I found particularly tricky was splitting the stance - the instructor's most frequent comment to me was to get my downhill ski further back. I.e. imagining initiating a turn to the left, so leading with my right ski and left knee holding the deeper bend (I do hope I've got that right, I did get it the wrong way round a few times), I found it really hard to keep my left leg far back enough. Clearly my knees are in love with each other & can't bear being too separated! Any tips?
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Possible to do P-turns, but just like vetski mine weren't terribly confident due to the increased emphasis on balance - at least on alpine skis if you lean too far forward nothing happens...
The reason why the knee is bent - I don't know the historical or bio-mechanical reason, but if you wanted to keep the heel down, then you'd be bloody daft not to get alpine bindings. Different technique, different requirements etc... I do find it odd that everyone I've shown the video to at home has asked "What's the point?" - indeed, what's the point in anything... 
Whilst I found telemark much, much more difficult (as would be expected), there is something about it that makes me think it can be hugely rewarding. A feeling of freedom due to increased movement options with the legs and feet, and of course a good feeling of accomplishment when you link together a few turns - it is something that requires more co-ordination as more things are doing more, different things, and balance is quite tricky given the free heel and numerous movements involved.
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skisimon
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| "What's the point?" - indeed, what's the point in anything... |
Yeah - I often ask myself that: however, each time I strap on my tele-skis I think "wow, this feels great", then when I get back on my alpine-skis I think "wow, this feels great" - yep: it's ALL great 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The tele stance gives you stability foreward-backward that you won't get with an alpine stance on tele skis, 'cos of the free heel - without one foot forward, as soon as your skis slow down you'll get pitched forward - ski jumpers use the telemark posiition to land for this reason.
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| without one foot forward, as soon as your skis slow down you'll get pitched forward |
Yep, that's perfectly true when you're straight running (as I know to my cost, badly wrenching my shoulder when skiing down the Argentiere glacier with a heavy pack & hitting some deep spindrift).
However it's a totally different matter when you are actually p-turning, as all the pressure is down through your feet with your edged skis going to the left/right underneath you, so the unlocked heel is not such a great issue, as long as you keep your weight centred over the ski.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Telemarkers, is it as much hard physical work as it looks? The technique is obviously tricky at first, but is it knackering on the old knees?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ski jumpers use the telemark posiition to land for this reason
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Yes, I've seen them do this, and always wondered why 
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richmond, It is harder than alpine, yes. But not that much harder. It is not knackering on the knees at all (unless you're doing it wrong) 
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You know it makes sense.
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ski, after 1st attempt at MSB, not sure I go with the "not that much harder" bit! It was entertaining and surprising to find oneself completely unable to complete a turn without face-planting for the first hour...though the alpine background did of course mean that we all made significantly better progress than any of us remembered making on our first days on skis!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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vetski, Physically - rather than technically or emotionally. Good fun tho 
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Poster: A snowHead
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ski, agreed, I loved it & am putting together a group/groups for another lesson at the EoSB!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Would you say one should become a confident alpine skier before trying it? Just that I'd like to have more options to turn when cross country skiing tracks "go wrong", snow ploughing takes up a lot of room  .
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 19-03-08 13:05; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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peura, You don't have to be able to ski at all ! Note that the telemark turn only is available with telemark equipment.. but even if you just use alpine techniques (snowlough) for an afternoon on tele kit it will help your skiing.
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ski, thanks. I was thinking of free heel cross country skis. Normally I (try) to ski alpine (parallel) but we tried cross country this year. I was thinking it would be useful to have a(nother) method for coping with downhills when the tracks one normally follows have been erased by errant skiers or fresh snow. Besides where we've gone so far most of the locals use telemark (or snowboard) so I think I should learn to fit in. I was just wondering if developing a really "solid" alpine technique first would help or hinder.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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peura, Tele turns will work on cross country skis.. just try them with plenty of room. You'll get more stability from the turn when you've mastered it.
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You don't need to be an alpine skier to learn telemark. But for your purpose of improving control on x-c skis, I think you'll actually be better off getting more comfidence in alpine technique and transfering that to your x-c skiing.
For example, to get out of the track that's going the wrong way, you can use a "step-turn", which is basically a small version of skating on skis. You pick up the ski on the inside of the turn out of the deep trough and point it to the direction you want it to go, then push off the outside ski )which is still in the trough of its track). Now you're gliding on the one ski that's out of the trough and pointing the right direction! If you can skate fluidly on alpine skis, you shuold be able to adapt the technique to x-c skis.
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abc, thanks. I'm not that good (yet) at skating on skis, though I can skate on skates. I think I could manage what you say at slow speeds:). However, for my previous fall I don't think I'd have been quick enough switching from "passive steering" to "active steering". Hence my thought that if I were making some attempt at "active steering" (perhaps using a rough telemark turn) I'd have more time to react. It was only on the faster downhill turns I'd had trouble...
Oddly I found some of things I used to manage on alpine skies (when I first took up skiing pre-carving) easier on the cross country skis than on the carving skis I've used since I restarted skiing.
Anyway I'd like to telemark for several reasons and am reassured that I might be able to take try it soon rather than waiting.
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FAQ
. In my defence I'd say that I wasn't the first, my skis cleverly followed the tracks of other doing the same rather than the track maker. I've since decided it would be a good idea to take more control over my direction (a little difficult when the skis are (or should be) stuck in deep troughs). I didn't want to feel I was rushing things trying to telemark without being a "good" Alpine skier first.
- so I've edited it .