 Poster: A snowHead
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Just been for a post-hol visit to Cas. I am delighted to report I no longer find the top of the slope so intimidating - hooray! I found repeating my plough/parallel turns a bit hard, but then they were new to me on my last couple of days abroad. The instructor with the Freshtrax was Alan who was really helpful, but shocked me rather. At the end of the morning I asked him how long before he thought I would be ready to do level 5 and then level 6 lessons. He said not to bother as that would really represent a backwards step as I am already, in Cas terms, intermediate  !
He says my turns are a good shape, my control is good and my plough is nice and narrow; although I am not quite achieving a fully parallel position I am well on the way and he says I need to work on getting a rhythm going in the turns. To do this he had me focusing on sinking/rising (if that makes sense) though I was a tad reluctant to turn soon enough sometimes - I quite like to travel a fair way across the slope and choose my location/speed for turns! He suggests I go to the instructor supported Freshtrax sessions rather than have specific group lessons (far more cost & time effective) and says the next step he thinks will help with the rhythm is - GULP - pole planting. Sounds like a recipe for leap frogging over the dratted things to me!
Comments/hints/tips guys? Keep it simple & non-controversial please!!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 12-03-08 18:46; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Butterfly, Sounds like your doing great! well done 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I got rhythm, I got music, I got my man
Who could ask for anything more?
I bet someone who knows about this suggests singing a song in your mind! Ican't successfully pole plant yet - we tried it and failed this year!
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Butterfly, Try counting through your turns. One/2 is the stretch on the turn; three/four, or even five if your turns are long, for the sink and steer across the slope. This encourages rhythmical smooth turns.
As Megamum says, sometimes singing a song can do the trick too-don't pick or listen to Status Quo though!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm confused. I thought sinking and rising were supposed to be passé? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, don't know about passe, but it seems to work.
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Lizzard, yeah, I know  Guess one shouldn't believe everything one reads.
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Hurtle, another instance of a remedy possibly effective with one specific individual not to be broadly applied to all.
In this instance, I can see that a lift and rise would help Butterfly find the new turn more readily than remaining in a steadily weighted remnant of a snowplough.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I bet someone who knows about this suggests singing a song in your mind
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I thought music was frowned upon by the safety psychotics?
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don't pick or listen to Status Quo
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What's up with the Quo then? I think Rockin' All Over The World could be just the thing for the moguls - may try it tomorrow.
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This will be probably result in a backlash but do it to music! Wear an ipod it helps if you have any natural rythem to. Well done and here is to up adn onwards
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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comprex, makes sense, I suppose.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is there a well known song that would have a good rhythm for a beginner for turns? In first aid they teach us to sing (silently under our breath) Nelly the Elephant for artifical ressucitation for the right rate of heart compressions
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| I'm confused. I thought sinking and rising were supposed to be passé? |
Not in the "old school" way. Active stretch(extension) to pressure the new outside ski, progressive flexion(sinking) to control pressure.
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You know it makes sense.
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Spyderman, ah. I have no idea, unfortunately, whether what I do is old school or new school. Must remember to ask next time I have a lesson. Note to self: make sure next ski lesson is in English - don't think vieille école and nouvelle école will quite hack it. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I agree with Ordhan. Use an ipod and find some favourite tunes which have the right sort of rhythm.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The way the instructor described it to me was:
sink down a bit through and out of the turn to help with pressure on the outside ski
straighten up to even up the weighting of both skis ready for the new ouside ski to take over
He also pointed out someone who was an excellent skier (he obviously knew him) and told me to watch him - he said at first glance it looks like he's just leaning left/right, but to notice there is a small amount of rise/sink as the weight shifts from one ski to the other and that when we learn it's good to exaggerate movements a bit, which later will be far more discrete.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They used Chaka Khan "I'm every woman" with Fiona Bruce on Ski Sunday I seem to remember.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| I agree with Ordhan. Use an ipod and find some favourite tunes which have the right sort of rhythm. |
If I do that, how can I hear the snowboarder behind me so I can worry about how close they are?? 
Would be helpful if they played decent music on the PA at Xscape instead of the **** they had on earlier today! (God I must be getting old!)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Butterfly, You've updated the signature - Perhaps I haven't been paying attention!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, 
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| Quote: |
he said at first glance it looks like he's just leaning left/right
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what did he look like to you? If any parts appeared to be "leaning" which were they?
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| Yoda wrote: |
| Quote: |
he said at first glance it looks like he's just leaning left/right
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what did he look like to you? If any parts appeared to be "leaning" which were they? |
Ooh you do ask hard ones!
He was doing rapid short turns. When I think about it, his head/shoulders were facing down the fall line pretty much all the time I think and broadly upright. His legs though seemed to lean from side to side causing a bend at the waist (with maybe a bit of lean the other way in the upper body??).............. errr.......... I think? Trying to replay the image in my mind here! And it is hard to put an image into words.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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YES, Yoda like that. Interesting comment about copying what you "think you see" without knowing what's really going on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Butterfly, that's why 90% of the skiers you see when looking down from a chairlift are crap
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yoda, what a magical film! [The first one, I mean - ed. for clarificn.] There's real love in that.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 13-03-08 0:32; edited 1 time in total
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Yoda, yes, this one guy at Xscape today was Sooo much different to everyone else there. Absolute magic to watch, effortless, neat, rhythmic - he and his kit were completely one entity - skis being an extension of the body.
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You know it makes sense.
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Does anyone have the link to Ali Ross's rather old video where he explains exactly what is going on during "up and down movements"? I was taught to focus on this as a means of unweighting the skis when I first started skiing eight years ago. I stuck with it when I developed some basic carving skills and then stopped making progress. I then read Ali's book and everything became clear. I then stopped thinking about it, concentrated on edging the skis and the turns just came. In my own very limited opinion the observed skier was probably doing short carved turns making use of the side cut of the ski and angulation of the hips, knees and ankles with a relatively "quiet" upper body. At max angulation the skier would appear to be low with maximum forces being transferred through the skis. As the skier came out of the turn the skis would pass in front of the body (crossover) and the skiers height would increase in this neutral position. The skier was probably making no conscious effort to "move up and down", the effect probably came from the skis being put on edge. Apologies for stating something something loads of people on here already know.
| Butterfly wrote: |
| Yoda wrote: |
| Quote: |
he said at first glance it looks like he's just leaning left/right
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what did he look like to you? If any parts appeared to be "leaning" which were they? |
Ooh you do ask hard ones!
He was doing rapid short turns. When I think about it, his head/shoulders were facing down the fall line pretty much all the time I think and broadly upright. His legs though seemed to lean from side to side causing a bend at the waist (with maybe a bit of lean the other way in the upper body??).............. errr.......... I think? Trying to replay the image in my mind here! And it is hard to put an image into words. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kelskii, do you mean the one above (second in my post) or another clip?
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Poster: A snowHead
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What's Ali Ross' book called, please? I feel an Amazon order coming on!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yoda, I spent so long waffling, the video explains things visually far better than me. There is another video of Ali in the late 1980s, I think. Someone posted the link on here a while ago. I saved the video and will try and find it and post the link to it. It was on a site with some of the Martin Heckleman (sp?) videos. I found it on a thread a couple of weeks ago.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yoda, thanks (also for the link)!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yoda, It's the second video, I didn't realise you had posted it at first.
Hurtle, I phoned the number on Ali's site and expressed an interest in doing a course. Moira (Ali's wife) answered and asked "...have you read the book?", I said: "no", she said: "...give me your address and I'll stick one in the post". So, I got one for nothing but went on to do the course.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kelskii, wow!
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Kelskii, does he still focus on "knee" angulation or does he take a more "hip/full leg" approach these days when developing edging skills?
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All of this talk of up and down movements to unweight skis is scaring me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yoda, He still does the drill with the hand gently pushing in the outside knee so, I suppose you could say that the focus is on the knee. I'm no expert but I've since read some of Harald Harb's stuff on this so I think I know what you're getting at. From what I've read, Harb seems to insist that edging must begin with hip movements as the knee simply can't "angulate" on its own. Then again though, even though Ali's exercise appears to start at the knee, the hips are doing most of the work anyway. Do you know of any instructors in Europe who teach the hip/full leg approach?
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Spyderman, I much prefer another type of "up and down movement"
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