 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, going to chamonix for the first time next week. We are looking at doing the vallee blanche run. Do you need a guide to do this or are there enough people to follow? Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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paulrfair, depends- if you are very experienced on glaciers / navigation in a white out / can happily extract any of your friends from a cravasse with harness, ice screws, set up a pully system with triblocs/prussiks or have got all the kit and are happy to learn on the job as it were then yes (as well as able to assess avalanche conditions/fit and walk in crampons etc etc)
but since you need to ask the question I'm guessing the answer is no
people do follow tracks
an English snowboarder did that recently- sadly it was the last thing he did!!
try a guide Seb at www.chamonixguiding.com is fantastic
don't let my snotty answer put you off it is great......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulrfair, Welcome to snowHeads. 
Get a guide. You could be following someone who's equally lost, with no means of recovery.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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paulrfair, Welcome to snowheads. I would agree with edsilva, finding the way is not really the problem, its relatively cheap to have a guide and worth it for the extra safety on the glacial terrain, but do it its great.
Vallee Blanche on Saturday
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I join the chorus: "GET A GUIDE!"
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 12-03-08 20:48; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Guides are well worth it. If you have a group, maybe just go with 4 people. If less, then you can join a group for about EUR75, seb or ww.chamex.com
There are plenty of others.
Glaciers are risky business without them.
When are you going? It is due for a massive dump this week and should be great!!!!!
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Get a guide.
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The classic route is fairly obvious (if theres alot of people to follow on the day) - however if the weather takes a turn for the worse you could very easily get lost and blunder into a crevasse - so you should take a guide.
Crampons are handy for confidently strolling past others struggling along the arete.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would be especially wary in Chamonix of following tracks to go off piste. People will ski literally anything and you could easily find yourself in major trouble.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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although it looks fabulous and benign from the photos it is still dangerous - at least two people have been killed there this year (although i believe the british boarder was with a guide)
its definitely an experience worth doing - i would say it is the best skiing experience i have had. But i would certainly do it with a guide. is it really worth the risk to save 75 euro?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've done it without a guide....but thats' after several guided trips, and lots of ski touring and off-piste experience. paulrfair, Unless you have a great deal of experince of ski touring (in which case I don't think you'd ask the question), you should book a guide.
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You know it makes sense.
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paulrfair, I'm going to stick my neck out on this one - you're a boarder aren't you? An Advanced/Expert (!) boarder, with maybe 6 weeks on the snow.... 
....Get a guide
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you need to ask......................
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Poster: A snowHead
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paulrfair, sorry- welcome to snowheads
ps if you missed it - get a guide
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for the advice....Get a guide it is then.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bearing in mind that you start the route on foot, descending a steep snow ridge about 3 feet wide, it's useful to be roped to a guide (and the rest of your group for that matter....).
Without a guide, or without being roped up, one slip means that you won't stop until you reach Chamonix 9000 feet below!
A highly recommended day out and one you'll undoubtedly look back on for the rest of you life. It's THAT good!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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John Crawford, the top station of the Aigile de Midi is at 3,800 metres, a bit more than 9,000 ft.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David@traxvax, yeah but Cham is at 1000 m so 2800 m difference... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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paulrfair, have a really great time- as said you will remember it for the rest of your life.
All guides are equal- but some are more equal than others!!
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Glad you're getting a guide... I was just there and it's a massive glacier with all kinds of "interesting" terrain. Instead of the Vallee Blanche, one other suggestion or option, is to take a bus from Chamonix thru the Mt Blanc tunnel and ski from the Italian side. You access the Vallee Blanche, but from the skiers right, so there are hardley any people and you'll likey get untracked powder. Ask your guide to take you to the Vallee Noire. Every bit as beautiful and dramatic, but with no calories... (err, I mean people). Don't go if the forcast is bad either. It's the views that make this so amazing!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Julieanne,
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Starting the day on the narrow ledge access -the arrete--, carrying our skis, tied together with ropes and safety harness...I shall never forget either... )
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Yes that came as something of a shock at the start of the journey. it's worth it though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Doing the Vallee Blanche tomorrow for the first time. Can't wait...lot's of powder apparantly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We did the VB last year (with a guide!). One of the top days of my life - and my photo of a blue lake has been on the Snocoach website.
The bubble at the end was closed, so we had to walk all the way up from the glacier to the station, on a non-path, knackered. If nothing else it was a first-hand impression of the level the glacier has dropped in the 100 years or so since the station was built, when tourists of the time walked from the train virtually onto the glacier. What is it now? 200 ft? I'm not very good a guessing this, buts its a long way, especially when walking up.
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We had to do that walk too ! not my favourite part of the day ! ...as for the glacier dropping ..I was reading a local history of Chamonix whilst out there and it seems that the glacier has ebbed and flowed on a 100 year or so cycle ever since the mountains were occupied , I dont think the current shrrinkage is anything more than would be expected based on these cycles and certainly not enough to prove the existence of global warming caused by man made CO2 emissions if anyone was about to start !
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You know it makes sense.
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Pedro_2004, I think you just started it, but I hope it ends there.
300 years ago the glacier blocked the main Chamonix valley!!! Never heard of it getting bigger - all shrinkage, but perhaps at different rates.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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when i was there in 1647 there was no glacier there - just rocks and snow 
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Poster: A snowHead
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and no doubt you had to live in a paper bag in the middle of it and get up before you went to bed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anyone any idea when the Vallee Blanche might open this year?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Peter Ross, it usually doesn't open until late Jan/early Feb but it does depend on snowfall and how well the crevasses are covered.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Peter Ross, I don't but my understanding is that there has been a lot of snow higher up - it may well "open" earlier than usual. Call a guide...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I asked BigFoot to arrange a Vallee Blanche trip for my group of 5 last year. Most of us had done it before and we all had at least 10 years of skiing under our belt, so I said we were experienced skiers so no worries about being able to do it.
Unfortunately, I think this must have ended up via Chinese whispers being translated from 'experienced' to 'expert' to 'extreme' skiers.
We weren't that fit and had expected to do the same easy route as last time and have a lunch stop. We were also all geared up for piste bashing, not deep powder. Our guide was always in a hurry, spoke little to us, and after chivvying us across the lower arrete (despite one or two of us losing our footing a few times), and not letting us get our breath back, took us down the Envers du Plan route.
It took a while before our addled brains recognised that we were not taking the easy route. Apparently the guide had understood we were extreme skiers intending to beat our personal record for the fastest EnversDuPlan descent and had only allowed 2-3 hours for his time, tops - in fact he had only taken our booking on the understanding we were olympic powder hounds intending to race him to the bottom - he was picking up one of his kids from school early afternoon and couldn't be late anyway. So, too late, we were committed. Some very unhappy bunnies... 
Deep powder presented considerable difficulty to 4 piste bashing skiers who'd not recently practised powder skiing (veritable ducks out of water). As for myself, I had recently been snowboarding a lot of powder in Jackson Hole, so was generally ok, but had brought my piste/carving board which I submarined in a powder pond (too used to my powder board, so didn't lean back enough) - I had to take both hardbooted feet out to make any amount of progress - one of those 'never do this' decisions which nevertheless had to be done. One chap after a tumble lost a ski that almost slid down a crevasse like a stick down a whirlpool, but fortunately got lodged despite disappearing from view (rescued by our intrepid if peeved guide). Everyone had their share of throwing their toys out of the pram, spitting out their dummies, and generally trying to reconcile the excellent views with the 'nightmare from hell' of an impromptu powder skiing lesson on which one's life depended. Several times people simply wanted to give up and get a snowmobile ride back - there are no snowmobiles - you ski down or you get hypothermia. 
Suffice it to say it took far longer than any of us, let alone the guide, had expected. We eventually got out of the powder and back to the easy route's final flat road (a thigh burner to nicely round things off - if you stop sliding, you walk). No time for lunch.
Naturally, our guide felt we were the ones at fault who had exagerrated our competence, if not lied, and caused him immense inconvenience - which he wasn't shy of communicating to other guides he met and chatted to on the way down.
Not the best experience, but one we look back on and think "Thank heck we all managed to get down".
And that's the short version of the story. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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if someone turns up wanting to do the VB describing themselves as "experienced" I would be somewhat bemused if 30degree powderfields turned out to be a major inconvenience 
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Arno, bear in mind I was simply trying to convince the BigFoot person on the other end of the phone that we were ABLE to do the Vallee Blanche. If I had known that the words I used would dictate the difficulty of the route taken, and the speed we would be doing it in, then I would have been far more precise to say the least. I had simply expected that we would end up having a guide for the day and could go at our own pace. When we were chivvied on after the arrete (with oxygen starved brains) we assumed it was to make good time so that we could have a more leisurely lunch stop.
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crosbie, sounds like awful communication/misunderstanding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Christopher, yup, indeed. And a lesson to those doing the VB.
Make sure your guide understands precisely what sort of day (route, pace, difficulty, exertion, stops) you're expecting BEFORE YOU JOIN THE QUEUE FOR THE CABLE CAR!
If the guide says "Allez Vite! We must get this car!". Ignore him. You must communicate first. Even if you miss your ride up. Once you hit that queue, you're at the mercy of your guide, and if they have the wrong idea about what you want from him, you may be regretting it at the bottom of a crevasse (if you're lucky enough to still have a working brain).
But, why can't you sort all that out once you get to the top?
1) Less oxygen, more excitement, anticipation, not quite so able to think with as much clarity as on the ground
2) Expectation that guide will be asking group their preferences at a suitable moment - if anyone's actually considered a choice might be available
3) Always thinking there'll be a better opportunity to chat about things
4) Group gets split up between upper cable car rides - might as well wait until group's together
5) If the guide's in a hurry, there'll never be any opportunity anyway
6) Too busy putting harnesses on, learning about transceivers, etc.
7) Too shagged after arrete to confirm one's assumptions about the route
 Not only is the top way too flipping late, the queue at the bottom is too late - the rollercoaster starts there.
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We had an old guy with us when we did it who would turn and fall. THE ENTIRE WAY DOWN THE MOUNTAIN. The guy was a liability. He even took his ski off in the glacier area for which the guide got very angry and repeatedly shouted at him to put his f-ing ski back on due to the risk!
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